M54 + E36

[Ahmedsinc 414]

So as some of you know I acquired an '02 530i that suffered an unfortunate demise a few months ago with the view of using the M54B30 for an engine swap in my E36 hack. The reasoning behind using the 3 litre as opposed to following the M50B25 turbo path is I prefer the linear torque of an NA motor to turbocharged engines, and I'm aiming for a near factory appearance when the bonnet is raised.

So far, the easiest option to get the new motor running in my car is to follow Silver_Fox's lead : M50 manifold & cable throttle, B25NV exhaust cam swapped to inlet side on the B30, and B25NV ECU dyno retuned to accommodate increased fuel requirements, Vanos and DISA delete, M52 / S50 headers. End result is quite impressive given a low budget build but the motor will only really come to life above 3500rpm. Great for a track car that spends its life in the upper ranges of the tacho but possibly not the most comfortable setup for a daily driver.

My research so far suggests that it IS possible to delete / disable the likes of ASC, EWS etc from the MS43 DME, but of course those that have done the swap in overseas forums are not saying just HOW they made the necessary changes to the ECU. What I'm aiming for is a way to swap the M54 while making as few changes as possible to the E36.

Is there anyone locally (preferably Auckland / North Waikato) that would be willing to share a little of their knowledge? Thanks to a member here I have GT1 / SSS loaded on a suitable laptop but I have no idea how to drive it. I am fully aware that making changes like this is a job that needs to be handed to someone suitably qualified, but I'd still like to gain an understanding of how it's done.

Before it's mentioned, yes I am aware the B30 internals will fit the B25 block, and an S50 swap would yield far superior results, a turbo would make more power and torque than the B30 et al, but what I want is an NA M54B30 powered E36. So far I'm not aware of anyone in NZ that has done such a swap.

Also it raises the opportunity to pursue developing the engine with S50 bits at a later date.

So is there anyone around that might be able to help an idiot out?

Thanks

Edited May 9, 2014 by Ahmedsinc

[allan 295]

Have a chat to Joe at Euro surgeon believe he did Ray's M3-5 electronics and Glenn recommended him to me when I did my engine swap. If you have every thing from the 5er them why not swap every thing over I know it is never that straight forward. Would it be a M54B30 after all the deleting and swapping out of manifolds and other stuff you mentioned also the EWS your 5er could be series 3 and they are getting pretty involved in a lot of the process in operating the vehicle as a whole. Best of luck nothing is impossible keep us posted.

Edited May 9, 2014 by tim 325

[hybrid 1043]

Brendon and I did 8m3 electronics, joe coded it.

EWS delete requires editing and reburning a ROM dump. ASC removal is recoding. I personally like the idea of having drive away protection still in the car, people get all hung up on getting rid of it for some reason?

You will also need to have it coded and programmed to manual before you rip it all apart, well it makes it a lot easier because once you separate the modules it gets hard to force them into manual mode if everything cant talk to each other. We now contract on referral through Ray to offer this service. Ring Ray

[BM WORLD 1283]

i think you will find the torque of a 3L non vanos engine running with m50b25 setup , will be good enough for a light weight e36

i mean the manual non vanos e36 325i is fine to drive around in at low rpm etc

and with a proper bit of remap tunning etc torque should be ok down low

[Michael. 2313]

Hmmm.

For what it's worth to get all the electrics and mechanicals working just right for only a slight bump in power and torque is it really worth the hassle? While all possible, I think you may end up being disappointed, that said I guess it depends what you're wanting to achieve, it would improve the car without a doubt but isn't the whole ideal of an engine swap to improve it considerably?

[thorburn 121]

aftermarket ecu and keep the vanos and sell (me) the gt1?
I'm looking forward to seeing how this progresses

[Ahmedsinc 414]

Have a chat to Joe at Euro surgeon believe he did Ray's M3-5 electronics and Glenn recommended him to me when I did my engine swap. If you have every thing from the 5er them why not swap every thing over I know it is never that straight forward. Would it be a M54B30 after all the deleting and swapping out of manifolds and other stuff you mentioned also the EWS your 5er could be series 3 and they are getting pretty involved in a lot of the process in operating the vehicle as a whole. Best of luck nothing is impossible keep us posted.

I did consider just pulling everything across from the 5er to the 3er, but it would take me months to get it all done. The 3er in question is my daily transport, so having it off the road for god only knows how long just isn't an option. Plus the 5 carries a lot of body control modules, steering angle sensors etc etc that will make it too big a job for a noob like me.

Brendon and I did 8m3 electronics, joe coded it.

EWS delete requires editing and reburning a ROM dump. ASC removal is recoding. I personally like the idea of having drive away protection still in the car, people get all hung up on getting rid of it for some reason?

You will also need to have it coded and programmed to manual before you rip it all apart, well it makes it a lot easier because once you separate the modules it gets hard to force them into manual mode if everything cant talk to each other. We now contract on referral through Ray to offer this service. Ring Ray

Crap. Wish I'd known that before I pulled everything out Will be visiting Ray next weekend so I'll have a chat to him on Saturday. Main reason I'm looking to get EWS removed is the e36 I have missed out on EWS by about 3 months, and given my track record with vehicle electronics the more basic I can keep this thing the better! ASC would be cool, but as I'll have a very limited timeframe to physically swap the engine making mods to brake systems and hubs to accommodate E39 sensors pushes it into the too hard basket.

i think you will find the torque of a 3L non vanos engine running with m50b25 setup , will be good enough for a light weight e36

i mean the manual non vanos e36 325i is fine to drive around in at low rpm etc

and with a proper bit of remap tunning etc torque should be ok down low

That's what I'm thinking, will have to ask silfox very nicely if I can take his car for a little drive to see how it goes. Slightly shorter final drive ratio won't do any harm either!

Hmmm.

For what it's worth to get all the electrics and mechanicals working just right for only a slight bump in power and torque is it really worth the hassle? While all possible, I think you may end up being disappointed, that said I guess it depends what you're wanting to achieve, it would improve the car without a doubt but isn't the whole ideal of an engine swap to improve it considerably?

Hell, if I had the money I'd be using an S50B32. That being said, so far this entire project is cost neutral, including picking up an M50B25NV for parts and a few other toys. Mmm, Remus! My aim is for an increase in low range torque and general driveability, any hp gains will just be a happy bonus. It's also going to be my first ever engine swap, so I'm looking to keep it as simple as I can and learn as much as possible in the process. If I find a way to retain the dual Vanos it opens the door to using S50 parts later on, and if I really get carried away I'll have a good look at enlisting Mr Murch to feed it some boost. I also quite like the M54B30, it's a nice smooth engine with a lovely power band. Long term I'm aiming for an M60 or possibly M72 into an E39 estate, but that's gonna be years down the track. Babies & mortgages to sort out first. It might yet end up that I just sell the engine and go back to being a wannabe, but I'd at least like to try BEFORE I fail.

aftermarket ecu and keep the vanos and sell (me) the gt1?

I'm looking forward to seeing how this progresses

Megasquirt would probably be the best option there, will need a whole bunch of dyno time to get it close to the factory finish though. And as I know 3/5ths of feck all about tuning an ECU I suspect the cost would quickly start running away on me.PM me about GT1, I'll share what I know

[BM WORLD 1283]

or just buy my 3L e36 coupe i have now and just repaint it or cover it in vinyl

[Ahmedsinc 414]

or just buy my 3L e36 coupe i have now and just repaint it or cover it in vinyl

You have a 3l e36??

Edit: oh yeah, the M3. Duh

Edited May 10, 2014 by Ahmedsinc

[Ahmedsinc 414]

Anyone know where to find a dyno chart for a non-modified M50B25 & M54B30? Wouldn't mind making a few comparisons over the weekend. Have found some overseas charts but the US ones all use hub dynos. interested to see stock torque curves on standard B25 vs. B30. ta

Edited May 14, 2014 by Ahmedsinc

[Allanw 1071]

Anyone know where to find a dyno chart for a non-modified M50B25 & M54B30? Wouldn't mind making a few comparisons over the weekend. Have found some overseas charts but the US ones all use hub dynos. interested to see stock torque curves on standard B25 vs. B30. ta

Here is a shitty screen shot of a factory M54 chart from some E85 literature: 1&2 are B30, 3&4 are B25.

They have a pretty good torque curve for an "old tech" revvy 6 cylinder (though I can see why ours stuggles away from the "give way" at the end of the road in 2nd at 1200 rpm!).

PS... anyone want to swap an M54B25 for an M54B30??? All I need to do is bolt it in, and update the DME software

[Ahmedsinc 414]

Here is a shitty screen shot of a factory M54 chart from some E85 literature: 1&2 are B30, 3&4 are B25.

They have a pretty good torque curve for an "old tech" revvy 6 cylinder (though I can see why ours stuggles away from the "give way" at the end of the road in 2nd at 1200 rpm!).

PS... anyone want to swap an M54B25 for an M54B30??? All I need to do is bolt it in, and update the DME software

Wow, this is proving to be far more difficult than I thought. Even the E30 fanboy sites don't seem to have any Thanks Alan, that at least gives me a little to go on. The only trouble with factory data is they tend to supply the ideal results on their own equipment, what I'm hoping to find is rear wheel figures as opposed to crank. I am surprised that the peak torque from the B30 is only available between 3500 - 4750rpm. I had the idea in my head that it was available at a lower rev range. Mind you, 270nM @ 1500rpm isn't too bad really. Must. Find. M50B25. Graph!!!!!!!

[kiwi535 538]

Wow, this is proving to be far more difficult than I thought. Even the E30 fanboy sites don't seem to have any  Thanks Alan, that at least gives me a little to go on. The only trouble with factory data is they tend to supply the ideal results on their own equipment, what I'm hoping to find is rear wheel figures as opposed to crank. I am surprised that the peak torque from the B30 is only available between 3500 - 4750rpm. I had the idea in my head that it was available at a lower rev range. Mind you, 270nM @ 1500rpm isn't too bad really. Must. Find. M50B25. Graph!!!!!!!

Drive one.any b30 will tell you what you want to know

[Ahmedsinc 414]

Drive one.any b30 will tell you what you want to know

Bought one in the shape of a 530i estate a couple weeks ago. However 1395kg worth of E36 vs. 1826kg (sedan) of the E39 would lead to a very different real world experience. Hence my hope to find unmodified rolling road dyno charts of both engines. The theory behind all this faffing about is to compare the M54 - M50 - modified M54 dyno plots to make a semi-educated decision on which direction to take with the B30 I have on the stand downstairs. i.e will the documented torque loss in the 3k rpm range be counteracted by the theoretical 3.46 final drive ratio or am I better off to find a way to get the unmodified dual vanos M54 to run in my car.

Apologies if my thought patterns make little sense to observers, 95% of the time they make little sense to me too!