What BMW's other than a E30 M3 have dogleg gearboxs?

[Golfboy666GTI 68]

As the titles says, what BMW's other than a E30 M3 have dogleg gearboxs?

[Eagle 1662]

E12 M535i

[Dave@nz 11]

If you intend installing dogleg in a E30 M3 as I understand it there is a difference between dogleg gearboxes the cast lugs on each side for rubber mounts to bolt on is where the difference lays.

I am not sure with out doing some research certain (635csi and ?) models of BMW had the dogleg with mount lug on one side only.

265-5 is what you need for M3.

262 from 635csi is what you don't want, it can be installed after new centre section is "found" and installed.

Dave.

[E30 325i Rag-Top 2956]

There were some real weird and wonderful models produced with dog-leg boxes in them, as Dave says above there are differences between the types. Plus obviously the bell-housings to match the box up to the engine.

One version of early five series, either E12 or E28 had an M20 with a dog-leg box - something like a 525iS or 528iS. Very few were made, might have been only for certain markets.

And as for what the South Arficans came up with, I wouldn't have a clue! Possibly the SA E30 325iS had a dog-leg, as it had lots of other M3 running gear (5-stud) etc. in it.

Was there a particular reason for the question?

[BM WORLD 1283]

Have seen e21 323i e28 528i e28 m535i e24 635csi e24 633csi e23 m745i and sure some early e30 323i

SA 325is etc

[NZ318is 4]

Also the some of the 2002tii's had a dog leg

[Ahmedsinc 414]

Hmm, dogleg box would be rather cool. Do any of the above mentioned transmissions have bolt-on bellhousings a la the G250? While they're impossibly rare here it would make for some bragging rights

Am I on the wrong track thinking the dog boxes have stronger internals?

[Golfboy666GTI 68]

If you intend installing dogleg in a E30 M3 as I understand it there is a difference between dogleg gearboxes the cast lugs on each side for rubber mounts to bolt on is where the difference lays.

I am not sure with out doing some research certain (635csi and ?) models of BMW had the dogleg with mount lug on one side only.

265-5 is what you need for M3.

262 from 635csi is what you [/size]don't want, it can be installed after new centre section is "found" and installed.

Dave.

The E30 M3 is European spec (dogleg gear box), the Japanese and US spec E30 M3's have the standard "H" pattern.

[E30 325i Rag-Top 2956]

Dog-leg box is a 265/5 with 1:1 5th gear ratio.

'The 'overdrive' box is a 265/6 with a higher ratio for 5th.

There are a couple of good sites in the web which show how to tell them apart from each other.

[Dave@nz 11]

The E30 M3 is European spec (dogleg gear box), the Japanese and US spec E30 M3's have the standard "H" pattern.

That is correct for US spec and the majority of Japanese ones but some M3s sold new in Japan were full euro spec.

[Golfboy666GTI 68]

That is correct for US spec and the majority of Japanese ones but some M3s sold new in Japan were full euro spec.

Are you sure. Yes I know they are in Japan but I think they are imports from Europe.

[Dave@nz 11]

Hard one to give a definite answer to. Mine was sold new in Hiroshima 1987 full euro spec I have the build order details including what month it was built and sold in Japan, I have seen other full euro spec early ones which have been imported from Japan to NZ for sale over the last 10 years.

I have met some Aus M3 owners, one has one which is from japan euro spec non dog and has also seen a mixture he commented mine was quite rare full euro spec and with the indicators in the sides of the front guards.

From what I can work out more common in the early models of M3 to be full euro spec and from what I have seen over the years from 1988 onwards more common to see non dogleg gearbox ones from Japan.

Not sure with out doing a lot of research but suspect it is something to do with the type code mine is 1005, US = 1003 and I suspect somehow that equates to what gearbox you end up with but not sure on that.

Nearly forgot to mention the other way to be sure it was built new for the Japanese market like mine under the bonnet there is a plaque on it:

chassi number and "Authorised BMW Japan Model" BMW / Munich West Germany and logo.

Edited May 27, 2014 by 87M3@NZ

[dirtydoogle 383]

Am I on the wrong track thinking the dog boxes have stronger internals?

Dog box and dog leg are two entirely different things, sadly.

A dog box is like 99.99% ofbikes, using dogs to engage gears, pretty brutal and rough in a car but strong and very fast

A dog-leg is just when first is down the bottom and off to the side, which is lovely for driving quick with, makes 2nd/3rd and 4th/5th straight throws

[Allanw 1071]

Dog box and dog leg are two entirely different things, sadly.

A dog box is like 99.99% ofbikes, using dogs to engage gears, pretty brutal and rough in a car but strong and very fast

A dog-leg is just when first is down the bottom and off to the side, which is lovely for driving quick with, makes 2nd/3rd and 4th/5th straight throws

I thought you were going to talk about where you slept when you pissed off the Mrs...

[Ahmedsinc 414]

Dog box and dog leg are two entirely different things, sadly.

A dog box is like 99.99% ofbikes, using dogs to engage gears, pretty brutal and rough in a car but strong and very fast

A dog-leg is just when first is down the bottom and off to the side, which is lovely for driving quick with, makes 2nd/3rd and 4th/5th straight throws

Geez, the one time I get lazy fingers. Do the dogLEG boxes have stronger innards then?

[dirtydoogle 383]

Well, the missus sleeps in the dog box I let her in some times.

Ah, I see what you mean, sorry. It's very common for people to confuse dog engagement (oh no, not like that...) and dog-leg.
As far as I am aware there were no substantial advantages to the dogleg box, except I think the ratios were nicer? Then evened out by the diff. Only driven a standard H pattern E30 M3

[E30 325i Rag-Top 2956]

As far as I am aware there were no substantial advantages to the dogleg box, except I think the ratios were nicer? Then evened out by the diff. Only driven a standard H pattern E30 M3

Pretty much this. It was felt that the Americans would have enough trouble driving a stick shift, without moving the positions of the gears around with a dog-leg box. Hence they got the H-Pattern and a changed diff ratio.

The only real driving advantage, as was mentioned above, is the fact that the more often used changes become a straight shift.

There are physical changes between the boxes, as you'd expect as they work slightly differently, as to whether one is stronger than the other I can't comment. Maybe Kayne would have a view, he's worked with plenty.

[handgrenade 189]

Haha I just remember the Top Gear episode (15, 2) where May has the cosworth e190 with the dogleg box and keeps reversing into things. even the german tuning guy who turned up to put the cars through a safety check chucked it into 'first' and went backwards and uttered a 'shiza!'

[E30 325i Rag-Top 2956]

Saw that on the Best Of Top Gear again the other week, very funny, if a little "staged". Might even be the same Getrag in the 190e as I think they went into some other cars, like Mercs and Volvos as well.

I am looking foward to the day I chuck my "new" dog-leg into reverse when I am sitting on the starting grid...

[ashmill 68]

Interesting that Dave. Mine is full euro spec with dog leg box, side repeaters on front guards. Plaque in engine bay just says BMW Germany etc.

Car is from Japan but have no idea of history.

[rarerimresource 6]

If your car is Japan spec, it will say on the build sheet (I like to use http://www.bmwarchive.org/vin/bmw-vin-decoder.html)

There were 395 Japan spec E30 M3's built between July of 1987 and March of 1989. Each was equipped with with the 195-hp catalyst motor, a 5-speed overdrive manual transmission, power windows, air conditioning and on-board computer. The only extra-cost options were leather upholstery and a power sunroof.

Being is Japan is a fairly populous place, it's hardly surprising that more than few US and Euro spec E30 M3's made it over there.

For reference:

AK01: European-spec without catalyst, 03/1986 through 08/1989 includes Evolution I & II

AK03: North American-spec with catalyst, 03/1987 through 12/1990

AK05: European-spec with cat (195 hp), 05/1986 through 05/1989 includes Europa Meister 88

AK05: European-spec with cat (215 hp), 04/1989 through 12/1990 includes Cecotto + Ravaglia

AK07: European-spec Sport Evolution with catalyst, 12/1989 through 03/1990, the Swiss-market Cecotto edition and six 195-hp special-order examples produced in 1/1990

Evolution I (AK01, non-catalyst): 505 produced 02/1987 through 05/1987 (includes the French-market "Tour de Corse" edition)

Evolution II (AK01, non-catalyst): 501 produced from 03/1988 through 06/1988

Europa Meister 88 edition (AK05, catalyst): 148 produced from 10/1988 through 11/1988

Johnny Cecotto edition (AK05, catalyst): 480 produced from 04/1989 through 07/1989

Roberto Ravaglia edition (AK05, catalyst): 25 produced in 06/1989

Sport Evolution (AK07, catalyst): 600 produced from 12/1989 through 03/1990

Here is an example of what happens when you run a Japan spec VIN, for reference this car is in NZ:

Regarding the alleged "weakness" of the Getrag 265/5 box, it was actually the 245 dogleg that came on early 323i M20 cars that was weak. The M10/M30 bolt patterned dogleg boxes are practically bulletproof.

[E30 325i Rag-Top 2956]

807 is the option code added for Japan vehicles. Basically means the labels, handbooks, etc are in Japanese, makes no difference to the spec.

There are only two spec levels - Euro and US, the one you have listed is a Euro spec, as it says "Market: Europe"

[rarerimresource 6]

And happens to add an overdrive box and different diff as well...

Perhaps not officially a model on its own, but it's definitely a spec that is enough of an outlier to be considered standalone, as distinct from something like options 812 / 814, respectively Great Britain / Italian versions, in which the only change might be a mph/kph cluster to the physical car.

[E30 325i Rag-Top 2956]

Sorry, but that is not the case. The diff and gearbox (and all major mechanical parts) are determined by the model code first and foremost, in the case of this car that is AK05 which as you point out on your list is the Euro spec with cat.

Option codes for national versions, such as 807, 812 and 814 only affect the documentation with the vehicle, labelling, BoL, handbooks, etc. The speedo option you refer to for GB is 548, this is completely seperate to any national versions.

Japan is not a model on its own, it will only ever be either a Euro spec or a US spec. as you have shown in your list. Every country that ever sold an E30 M3 new will have a national version in the same way that Japan did, but this makes no physical change to the vehicle.

Unless of course you are talking about the two factory-built prototype RHD E30 M3 built for Japan - but that is a totally different story

[Golfboy666GTI 68]

Sorry, but that is not the case. The diff and gearbox (and all major mechanical parts) are determined by the model code first and foremost, in the case of this car that is AK05 which as you point out on your list is the Euro spec with cat.

Option codes for national versions, such as 807, 812 and 814 only affect the documentation with the vehicle, labelling, BoL, handbooks, etc. The speedo option you refer to for GB is 548, this is completely seperate to any national versions.

Japan is not a model on its own, it will only ever be either a Euro spec or a US spec. as you have shown in your list. Every country that ever sold an E30 M3 new will have a national version in the same way that Japan did, but this makes no physical change to the vehicle.

Unless of course you are talking about the two factory-built prototype RHD E30 M3 built for Japan - but that is a totally different story

Japanese spec E30 M3's do have standard H pattern gearboxs.

As for the 2 RHD E30 M3's I thought they were produced for HK? Or was it that one of them ended up in HK?