Help me with my quest for more power.

[slybma 38]

I'm stuck for choice and I'm not sure what to do, I'm on the quest for more power out of my E30. It runs an M50tu engine atm which is due a rebuild as it had done 200km in the donor car and has had not attention since it was installed, I'm either going to rebuild it with the B28 stroker kit and go down the forced induction route. Or I have the option of an M60B40 engine which would keep it BMW original(ish). Anybody had much to do with M60 E30s? Turbo E30s are getting quite common and like to do a bit different so kind of leaning towards the V8. What do the people think?

[Ace Of Spades 51]

all depends on what you want from the car man. turbo = power ( lots of it if u want lots) but lag and other little annoyances or v8 = torque and response but not a lot of hp (not much more than 300hp with a tune)

Edit: not sayong that 300 is a small amount of hp, just that with turbo there is a higher chance of making more power without becoming bankrupt

Edited June 17, 2014 by Ace of Spades

[handgrenade 189]

Road or race? Building yourself or paying for the build?

[twisted 45]

V8. Because V8.

[slybma 38]

all depends on what you want from the car man. turbo = power ( lots of it if u want lots) but lag and other little annoyances or v8 = torque and response but not a lot of hp (not much more than 300hp with a tune)

Edit: not sayong that 300 is a small amount of hp, just that with turbo there is a higher chance of making more power without becoming bankrupt

I want it to be reliable, it will be a mix of road and track use but mainly road use. The goal is 300-350hp at the rears, i had the rolling body weighed (minus the M50 and gearbox and an empty tank) its had some weight removed and it was just over 800kg so will be a light car with either option. Ill be building it myself so will keep costs down and not in too much of a hurry as car doesn't get driven often, i like the idea of having low down torque with reliability though

[Ace Of Spades 51]

I want it to be reliable, it will be a mix of road and track use but mainly road use. The goal is 300-350hp at the rears, i had the rolling body weighed (minus the M50 and gearbox and an empty tank) its had some weight removed and it was just over 800kg so will be a light car with either option. Ill be building it myself so will keep costs down and not in too much of a hurry as car doesn't get driven often, i like the idea of having low down torque with reliability though

Reliable and easyish and self built = v8 or thats what id do... 300hp atw would be a good result from an m60 ..... Plus v8= amazing sound

[handgrenade 189]

Suggest a s62b50. Reliable and will easily reach your power goals.

Or you could go forced induction with even a 2L and achieve the same numbers but with a smaller power band and perhaps a more complex and thus less reliable setup

[slybma 38]

S62 Is the dream but its the same reason in not going with the s5* engine, buying the engine kills the budget at least the m60s are cheaper

[jeffbebe 1559]

Buy an M5 ex UK. You can get one for as little as NZ$7K so $10K + GST landed. Take all the bits you need and part the rest... Hey presto. S62B50, ECU, looms and gearbox all for probably sub $6-7K. It's what I'll do for the E31 when I've saved enough cash.

(You might want a coupla grand in the back pocket for some new bits and pieces to fix up the engine when it arrives)

[Michael. 2313]

M60 or M62 wont get anything like 300rwhp without some decent upgrades and tuning.

Most stock ones are floating around depending on condition 200-250rwhp.

You would definitely want an S62 V8 as suggest above if you want a decent output that is cost effective.

Probably ideal to put aside 15k for such a project too

[_BRS_ 209]

Lukes Bible.

http://bimmersport.co.nz/topic/15684-boost-junky-2nd-saga-m50-t-project/

Do it.

[qube 3570]

Imo turbo.. theres a reason why its common/popular.

[Michael. 2313]

Imo turbo.. theres a reason why its common/popular.

Even I'm converting to the dark side and going turbo

NA just doesn't cut it unless you have unlimited funds.

[slybma 38]

Ive seen dyno results of both turbo and v8s that id be happy to see in my own car, im not hoping for crazy power otherwise id combine the two and go turbo v8. I don't mind it being complicated as in no stranger to transplanting engines, i can get a complete m60 conversion setup for 1500 then there is the obvious other bits needed to make it work. The ECU and injectors alone for the turbo setup will set me back more than that.

Its not a question of what's going to be easier or cheaper, i just want something that will take some regular abuse without needing endless repair work, (and keeping within the BMW theme)

[qube 3570]

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?1366630-m60-swapped-e30/page1

M60 seems good?

[BM WORLD 1283]

have a nice 4.4l m62b44 engine non vanos type $2k

4.4l will make more power and torque

i have had my ones at about 310-320hp and 490Nm

can run on orginal ecu setup or made to run on older m60 bosch ecu etc.

[handgrenade 189]

Turbo is cheap power compared to most na builds. But with forced induction is more complexity .. But there is a practical limit to na power. Unless you go with huge displacement or nuts revs then the cap is maybe around 300-350hp realistically. Put in an over engineered japanese engine with a snail and you can double that - 2jz or rb30. Even low boost on a BMW stock engine will net some good numbers ..

All generalised comments though. Drop in a m3 v8 and push 400 or a m5 v10 and push more! $$$$$$ though

[slybma 38]

Making good power from an NA V8 I find relatively easy, the 1UZs I've built for a couple of the local speedway guys are seeing 380-420hp and that's a pretty simple unsophisticated engine so I don't see it being too difficult to get 300-350 from a M60. Good quality parts for both setups will come with a high price tag, and from personal experience I know it pays to run quality.

I'm just torn as I've owned both NA V8 and a turbo inline 6 (Toyota variants but still) and loved them both. I see this as being my last shot to spent a bit of money on the car before the house and kids situation kills my budget completely...

Edited June 18, 2014 by Slybma

[handgrenade 189]

If you are on a budget go for the turbocharged n/a engine with low boost.

Otherwise run a v8 high comp, high revs and big cams.

[qube 3570]

I am leaning towards NA despite my prev comment.

Is there an option to turbo a m60/64 V8 enginr later on?

Also arent v8s generally more heavy than the standard e30 engines? Ie. Front heavy?

Despite HP numbers wont it be heaps quicker on such a light chassis as the e30? As compared to an E34 for eg.

Hmmm.. would be nice to stay BMW but otherwise an rb20 or similar turbo build would certainly yield the results and be fun!

[jeffbebe 1559]

NA just doesn't cut it unless you have unlimited funds.

Mmmnnnnn.... Unlimited funds!

[polley 916]

f**k all that Nissan jap sh*t.

[qube 3570]

Lol.. put in a KIA Engine then...

KOREA FTW!!

[Ahmedsinc 414]

Granted, I'm stepping away from the BMW vein, but what about a Gen 3 LS1?

Stock engines from the VY SS made 350hp ish at the crank, 350 ft/lb torque. CAI, headers and a remap sees them easily into the 300kw range. Yeah they're dinosaur tech, but a large displacement pushrod V8 is still a thing to behold. T56 gearboxes will be much easier to come by as well, if you're thinking of going manual, otherwise the 4 speed auto, while fairly sedate is still an ok option. Plus they're physically smaller and narrower across the heads than the M6x, reasonably sure they're lighter too. Less complex design, parts are readily available here and upgrades are an off the shelf proposition.

Fairly common conversion for the E36s in the US & A, probably not so difficult for an E30. Reckon there'd be a fair bit of structural reinforcement required though!

I totally agree with you about keeping it in the family, but if it's sheer grunt you're chasing the GM 8 pots make a compelling argument.

[No name user 379]

i have no idea why some think turbos = unreliable i wouldnt have a turbo business for the last 25 yrs plus if that was the case or maybe people are listening to the wrong sources,light car small motor plus turbo = a better handling car

something to consider for a track day play car