Nissan Leaf, Mitsi iMIEV et al and RUC

[_ethrty-Andy_ 2132]

Ok so my understanding is the reason we don't pay for RUC on petrol cars is because it's built into the fuel price. Conversely Diesel, and other fuel types, doesn't, and therefore we pay RUC seperately.

I have come to accept that hybrids like Prius, Camry, civic etc also don't pay RUC because they are still classed a petrol vehicle. The electricity they use still comes (initially at least) from petrol.

Can someone therefore shed some light on why these new generation fully electric cars are somehow exempt from all if the different guises or how RUC are collected? They have no combustion engine, relying soley on an electric wall socket, which as we all know isn't taxed.

[KwS 2425]

i'd say its only because no one in the ugly round building in Wellington has clicked to this fact.

[trottsky 24]

It's so that everyone buy's them under the pretence that the world is being saved and that they don't have to pay RUC because of that fact. That will help the government achieve it's emissions targets, THEN once there are many more electric cars on the road, they'll for sure introduce RUC for them so that they aren't missing out on any money/taxes.

[E30 325i Rag-Top 2957]

Fully electric vehicles DO have to pay road-user charges, there is currently an "exemption" in place that they don't. As in, the Land Transport Rule legal jargon of an exemption to the regulations.

At any given point (that is when it becomes economic) this exemption could be lifted by the government.

Just don't ask how many RUCks I have had with NZTA and various government bods about the i3....

[_ethrty-Andy_ 2132]

Fully electric vehicles DO have to pay road-user charges, there is currently an "exemption" in place that they don't. As in, the Land Transport Rule legal jargon of an exemption to the regulations.

At any given point (that is when it becomes economic) this exemption could be lifted by the government.

Just don't ask how many RUCks I have had with NZTA and various government bods about the i3....

thanks for that Jon, it does help explain this, i am however left feeling penalised. Is that they way they want me to feel?

All marketing aside, a 100% EV vehicle is as bad or worse for the environment than a traditional internal combustion engine, not least being the uneconomics of recycling Lithium Ion batteries and other "technologies", but use of unrecyclable plastics etc. When a internal combustion car comes to the end of its life, it is predominantly steel and aluminum which is recycled in one of 1,000 plants around the world

The company I work for has already had Mitsubishi New Zealand knocking on our door panicking about what to do with thier iMiev batteries. Those cars are coming to the age of replacement already, at a maximum of only 3 years old (at the time). At least Toyota prolong the use of thier batteries by the petrol engine progressively doing more and more of the work. Its only a matter of time before Nissan, BMW etc join the party.

NZTA obviously have thought about the front end, lower emissions and ecological damage during their useful life. Unfortunately thats not where it ends, but this is probably beyond the scope of that department

[E30 325i Rag-Top 2957]

Whoa, careful there Andy your looking at this with thought and logic. That kind of crazy talk is gonna get you burned at the stake for daring to question the new-age greenie bullshit.

The rubbish that those driving Prius' believe, ignoring the big pile of heavy metals under their seat.

Many countries, Europe, US, etc offer huge incentives to drive these types of cars, tax breaks, free rego, even cash payments. At least NZ hasn't quite gone that far.

I think that not only should electric cars pay RUC but also cyclists - they are using for free something that I have to pay for and that can't be right surely??

[_ethrty-Andy_ 2132]

I think that not only should electric cars pay RUC but also cyclists - they are using for free something that I have to pay for and that can't be right surely??

well they should be banned all together lol.

providing thier use of the road complies with road rules, and dont hold up regular traffic, i dont mind that. they do not damage roads except for when thier bones and bike frames get grinded into it when they fk up lol

[allan 295]

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/lithium-ion-batteries-hybrid-electric-vehicle-recycling/.

[kiwi535 538]

Whoa, careful there Andy your looking at this with thought and logic. That kind of crazy talk is gonna get you burned at the stake for daring to question the new-age greenie bullshit.

The rubbish that those driving Prius' believe, ignoring the big pile of heavy metals under their seat.

Many countries, Europe, US, etc offer huge incentives to drive these types of cars, tax breaks, free rego, even cash payments. At least NZ hasn't quite gone that far.

I think that not only should electric cars pay RUC but also cyclists - they are using for free something that I have to pay for and that can't be right surely??

.the tax payer built the roads.Its only because of more and more and more cars we need bigger flasher

main highways etc.cyclists dont need 6 lane highways.99 percent of cyclists using the highways pay taxes

Edited February 5, 2015 by kiwi535

[KwS 2425]

they dont pay Road User Charges despite using the road..... yet everyone else that uses the road does.

[Allanw 1071]

they dont pay Road User Charges despite using the road..... yet everyone else that uses the road does.

I too would love to see it fairer!

I cycle to work, but still have to contribute more to roads than I potentially "cost" - a car does actually wear roads out, a cycle basically doesn't. A cycle doesn't need a massive wide road. Concrete cycle lanes last a VERY long time with no/little maintenance. So yes, I'd love to see a more fair system. You'd get charged more for commuting by car based on what you "use" up, and I'd get charged less because I commute by cycle and the infrastructure is cheaper and longer lasting. Please promote this!

Why aren't there PUC (Path user charges)??? when you walk? Coz I don't have any footpaths near my place, and still have to pay for them.

Why does everyone in NZ have to subsidise Aucklands motorways via taxation?

Why do my taxes cost more than I get from them?

Why are my retired parents taxes used to pay for other peoples kids education?

etc, etc, etc,

[_ethrty-Andy_ 2132]

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/lithium-ion-batteries-hybrid-electric-vehicle-recycling/.

There is an abundance of supply, means prices for it are very very low, and recycling is uneconomical without government grants.

However, just because there is an abundance of supply doesn't mean we shouldn't recycle it, or be conservative in the ways its used.

Same goes for Lead, and yet we aren't too fond of burying that either.

And oil, the world would never run out only 60 years ago

Getting off topic now, i could write a piece on it, but thats another day.

The justification, if Jons is indeed true, is just crazy, and like most government subsides, not well thought out, and beaurocrats bashing on the government till to see how much money falls out

Edited February 6, 2015 by _Ethrty-Andy_

[E30 325i Rag-Top 2957]

I think it is just a token effort by NZTA / govt to promote so called green cars. As soon as there are enough electric cars on the road the money grabbers will be after the electric cars as well.

Personally I think the "rare earth" magnets required for the powerful electric motors are going to be much more of an issue in the future - mostly from the fact that 99% of the worlds supply comes from one country - China. Not sure if they "wear out" over time or if they can be recycled?

The cyclist bit was very tongue in cheek, but it is a road USER charge, not a road WEARER OUT charge...?

[kiwi535 538]

I think it is just a token effort by NZTA / govt to promote so called green cars. As soon as there are enough electric cars on the road the money grabbers will be after the electric cars as well.

Personally I think the "rare earth" magnets required for the powerful electric motors are going to be much more of an issue in the future - mostly from the fact that 99% of the worlds supply comes from one country - China. Not sure if they "wear out" over time or if they can be recycled?

The cyclist bit was very tongue in cheek, but it is a road USER charge, not a road WEARER OUT charge...?

it is actually a wear out charge,hence the weight classes

[hybrid 1043]

Electric is just a phase.

He3 is going to be the sustainable fuel of the long term future.

[Allanw 1071]

Electric is just a phase.

Haha.

[_ethrty-Andy_ 2132]

Electric vehicles represent less than .01% of the vehicle base and only do short distances. The damage they cause is about the same a serious cyclist like my self riding with a bunch of mates.

My E30 is less than .01% too, and also does about as much as a pack of cyclists. I should be exempt too.

[KwS 2425]

They don't and they should grow up and realise that running cyclist off the road is f**king dangerous but every weekend I go out. Training there are at least 3 morons who believe they have the right to do so .

If you ride like you troll on the internet, im not surprised people try to run you off the road.

What i want to know, if they start to add RUC for electric cars, what happens to the likes of PHEV hybrids or electrics with a range extender? The PHEV charges via socket, but has a petrol engine if it needs more power at the wheels or the battery goes low. The electric with range extender has a petrol engine also but it is only used to charge the battery, not drive the wheels. Both have the ability to run for long periods on just electricity, but also use petrol.

[kiwi535 538]

the fabled hydrogen economy,we need nuclear fusion first

[E30 325i Rag-Top 2957]

Bloody hell, nearly sprayed coffee all over my phone there, and not just because Ron actually said I was right on something.

Just trying to get the NZTA to accept that the i3 is an electric car was hard enough, working out the RUC would cause an overload!