850i E31 Trademe listing worth it?

[Mark312 25]

^ Haha, I think this thread could go on for ever and ever so shall we just end it here? LOL

And by the way, does anyone have any more photos interior/exterior of that e34 v12 wagon. Ive seen it on trademe and have been interested in it ever since..?

[MISS BM 712]

Earth to Andy. You are requested for images.

[KwS 2377]

Contact the forum user Ethirty Andy, he is the owner, and seller of the V12 E34. Its an amazing car, and far too much car for the little money.

[MISS BM 712]

Contact the forum user Ethirty Andy, he is the owner, and seller of the V12 E34. Its an amazing car, and far too much car for the little money.

Thanks I couldn't remember his forum name haha

[dkonsta1 109]

What happened in 1994?

First face lift and new engines. But maybe I am wrong.

[MISS BM 712]

First face lift and new engines. But maybe I am wrong.

Mm indeed. M62 I believe was rocked on in to replace M60. Now that would be a nice E31...

[Michael. 2312]

Mm indeed. M62 I believe was rocked on in to replace M60. Now that would be a nice E31...

Apart from the crap timing system.

[Mark312 25]

First face lift and new engines. But maybe I am wrong.

Yea, didnt they got to a 5.4l v12 in '94?

[jeffbebe 1559]

First face lift and new engines. But maybe I am wrong.

actually 95 onwards and there was crossover so you have to check, especially as many weren't registered until 96. The V8s grew from 4 to 4.4L and the V12s got the 5.4L M73... But ONLY left hand drive versions. Otherwise no other differences. The UK market got lots if individual spec 840 sports which had the csi body kit. Not a face lift in sight just two body kit types - standard and sport. You won't find an M73 850ci for love nor money in NZ as only around 1500 LHD cars were built. A bad csi will cost you $40-50k and a good one $75k+.

Best option is to get is buy a cheap 850i, get a csi kit (it's still available from BMW for around $3k shipped) and prepare to spend up on suspension, etc. oh wait... I'm doing it!!!

Edited March 20, 2015 by jeffbebe

[Mark312 25]

Awesome cars, love the engine and the fact that the design was not only for aesthetics but with aerodynamics in mind. Need to have a drive in a e31 or that e34 v12 wagon! Next car will definitely have to have a v12 in it!

[jeffbebe 1559]

There was a V12 SL for sale when I was looking - I bet that was something else!

[Mark312 25]

There was a V12 SL for sale when I was looking - I bet that was something else!

Yes, I looked at one and decided that the 500 was a better car, only 60hp power difference and the v12s had wiring harness issues, and other issues. So the v8 was a better option on the r129, however on the e31, thats a different story!

[jeffbebe 1559]

I was actually looking for an 840 as I had an M62 supercharger at the time but they are more expensive for some reason - people seem to get scared off by the extra four cylinders!

[Michael. 2312]

more expensive for some reason -

Well it seems they made less than 10,000 840ci, vs over 20,000 850i variations

The 5 speed with the M60/62 would have made a substantial difference for overall driveability. Better fuel ecconmy than the 12 too I would imagine.

V8 Sound potential too with a good exhaust.

All such things would lift the V8 8er prices.

[Mark312 25]

Well it seems they made less than 10,000 840ci, vs over 20,000 850i variations

The 5 speed with the M60/62 would have made a substantial difference for overall driveability. Better fuel ecconmy than the 12 too I would imagine.

V8 Sound potential too with a good exhaust.

All such things would lift the V8 8er prices.

When you think of it, BMW underpowered the 5.0l v12 so much, it had only about 15 more hp than the v8. Mercedes v12 engine at the same era had 400hp...wonder why they underpowered it so much?

Then again the benz v12's were 6litre

Edited March 21, 2015 by benzboy

[Michael. 2312]

When you think of it, BMW underpowered the 5.0l v12 so much, it had only about 15 more hp than the v8. Mercedes v12 engine at the same era had 400hp...wonder why they underpowered it so much?

Then again the benz v12's were 6litre

I think from day one it was an under powered engine. For 1989 it was 10 years behind the rest, still running 2 valves per cylinder and single overhead cams. They clearly didn't push the boundaries, then again it was a smooth cruising engine so perhaps its fairly relative. Very much like the old Jaguar 5.3 V12.

Those Merc M120 V12 were in another league though, 48 valves, dohc, making the best part of 400hp, yet ironically those were for their big S classes too so BWW really shot themselves in the foot with that competition. Even when they did the S70 5.6 CSI engine they still couldn't touch 400hp, meanwhile Mercedes by the mid 90s had just put out a 7.3L V12 for limited production making well over 525hp.

Still, it's plain to see where BMW was focusing their attention, the S62 5L V8, S54 etc, all absolute world class engines.

[BreakMyWindow 1870]

Don't think the max bhp matters as much as the fat slab of torque the m70 has. Big lazy engine for a Continental mile muncher.

[Michael. 2312]

Agreed ^

Don't think the max bhp matters as much as the fat slab of torque the m70 has. Big lazy engine for a Continental mile muncher.

Yeah too true. 450nm / 2 tonnes is fairly decent for such driving.

[Mark312 25]

You know, one thing i love about BMW is that unlike most car company's they actually care about the cars they've previously built and the enthusiasts behind them. Was watching this video about the E31 on BMW's YouTube channel and makes you think that they are not just out to sell you the newest thing to try and milk money out of you.

Wish Mercedes-Benz were a little more like that, dont know about BMW salespeople but the merc ones are snobs lol!

(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0hpDHN4bVqA0)

Edited March 22, 2015 by benzboy

[ssbmw 185]

Gidday,

Sitting on the sidelines on this thread. Some interesting comments. I believe though that the E31's get's a rough rap because it is a mis-understood vehicle -sort of like the Porsche 928. I drove 4 examples of 850i's, and 3 840's before I bought my car. They were all automatic, and to be honest lacked the sporty nature that I had got accustomed to, driving a M635csi.

However, my car is a M-spec, 4.4 6 speed manual - and despite it not being a 850csi (and at the time my budget could not stretch to that), it is still a fun car to drive. BMW obviously thought manuals in the 4.4 wouldn't sell well (as they made only 3 manuals in RHD -versus 1,470 automatic)- however, I don't get it - it has reasonable torque, handles reasonably well and is a very smooth drive. I think they got it wrong - I think they could have sold more if people had actually driven a M-spec 6 speed manual.

Saying that however, their market research probably concluded that their target market was an older, wealthy individual who wanted a nice relaxing automatic -perfect for trans-continental jaunts.

A close friend of mine currently owns a E39 M5, a E34 M5, 2 E34 6-speed 540is's, a E24 M635csi, a E24 635csi, amongst numerous other lovely cars. He has driven my car many times and claims that it is faster, yet handles as well as his 540is's and is in reality very close to his E34 M5's performance. I was kind of surprised by what he had to say, but it backs up what I think too - it is actually a much nicer drive than the generic automatic 840's I had driven in the past.

From what I can gather, the 840i's are perceived to be cheaper to run - as a consequence they don't come up for sale as much in NZ- people hold onto them. There were 6 NZ examples of the 4.0 6-speeds - 2 have to gone to Australia and the other 4 examples, nor the automatic versions come up for sale very much. Where as there are alot more 850i's in NZ, and I believe tender to linger on trademe because of the perceived costs to run one. However, as Jooles has mentioned - you either spend a little more and source an example that has been maintained well throughout its entire life, or you buy a cheap one and budget $10-$15k to get it right.

What you get in return is a very unique design which is arguably one of BMW's prettiest creations with tons of road presence. With a nice hue and a set of decent wheels (think M parallels or Alpina's or Style 5's) you get a stylish car which apart from it's pop-up lights, belie its age. Another thing too - how often do you actually see one on the road -- let alone a nice one??? They are not that common.

Not sure if I would have ever bought an automatic example, because I like 3 pedals. Saying that, I just want to say that I have truly enjoyed owning my 8 - they are (in my opinion) a totally under-rated vehicle.

Edited March 22, 2015 by ssbmw

[Michael. 2312]

^ an M-spec, 4.4 6 speed manual would definitely be the pick of the bunch. Lighter engine, further back, more edger to rev. Lovely...

Have you done a custom exhaust on yours?

[jeffbebe 1559]

The 8 series is definitely misunderstood... Usually by people who haven't driven one or have only driven an old one with 100K+ kms on it. It's a fantastic car in both V8 and V12 form. The M73 with 5 speed tiptronic I think would be the perfect balance but sadly they only built around 1500 units all in LHD.

Mine doesn't handle as well as my previous E39 but it's a work in progress - with a fair bit of work yet to do! - but I've been lucky enough to drive an absolute minter and it was amazing. A lot of people think the 8er wasn't a big success because of the power train but actually it was the price that was the problem. Priced around the quarter of mill mark in 1990 meant that they were right up there with exotics like Lambos and Ferraris but did not have the same high revving wow factor - although the I think the styling was right up there.

It's not a slow car by any stretch of the imagination, however, especially with a tune and a shorter final drive ratio but nor is it an excitement machine. It was built, as Martin said, for mile-munching cross continents, not for short bursts of quick acceleration. That said, a standard 850i will push close to 300kph with the limiter removed.

I've fitted a 3.64 LSD compared to the standard 3.15 open diff in euro spec 850s (or a dull 2.83 in US 4 speeds, I believe) which has made a big difference along with improved throttle response from an EML chip and around 30-35 extra horses from a couple of DME chips. It's definitely the fastest 4 speed auto I've ever driven.

Yes, they would have benefitted from their own power train - the S70 (from the csi version) as standard would have been a good start and the ITB S70/1 version in the M8 prototype (pumping out 550 naturally aspirated bhp) would have been the perfect M car - only the latest M5 and M6 have achieved that kind of power with a couple of turbos! The S70/2 and /3 are the engine used in the McLaren F1, I believe).

BMW spent so much on R&D on the 8er - it launched a host of new electronic wizardry - that the on road costs in the early 90s, just as the stock exchange crashed, were astronomical. The V8 versions were an attempt to mitigate the running costs for potential owners but in reality they're not much cheaper to run.

I think the 8er marque stands for BMW's exploration into new tech. The 8er was packed full of it and the i8 is the next big tech leap for them.

If you're wanting a track hack or to race WRXs at the lights it's not the car for you but if you want a very comfortable (as long as your sub 6'2" and your children have no legs), classic GT car that oozes style - and will get a lot of second looks! - then you can't go wrong with an 8!

[jeffbebe 1559]

^ an M-spec, 4.4 6 speed manual would definitely be the pick of the bunch. Lighter engine, further back, more edger to rev. Lovely...

csi is the pick of the bunch (or better yet, one of the Alpinas if you've got $100K+ to spare) but the M62 in manual would be epic... Though my 850i seemed to be faster on the track than the 840s (I think they were all 4L autos though).

[Michael. 2312]

What is a 4.4 Manual worth over a CSI?

They can't have made many manual V8s I wouldn't have thought

Last time I saw the odd 840ci it was over 30k on TM, and auto.

[jeffbebe 1559]

What is a 4.4 Manual worth over a CSI?

They can't have made many manual V8s I wouldn't have thought

Last time I saw the odd 840ci it was over 30k on TM, and auto.

Yeah, it didn't sell at that price though and I saw it drop to around the $20K mark. Not sure if it sold at $20K either.

I think a low kms 4.4L manual would be worth a bit here but no idea how much, certainly not as much as a csi - a good one of those will be $75K+ now. I got offered a manual 4L 840i with 120K miles ex-UK for $3K - they're cheap as chips there now but likely to be impossible to comply without major work (just ask Brad who brought in the technoviolet csi).

Edited March 22, 2015 by jeffbebe