E34 540i 6-sp manual

[gjm 3258]

Can anyone tell me the model designation for this? I think it is a Getrag, and the same (or very similar) box fitted in:

Toyota Supra

Skyline (although at the back)

One Maserati or another

Some 740i models

Some 840Cis

E39 M5

And possible the E46 M3.

Not going to be for a BMW... Just having some idle thoughts and looking for a strong, reasonably readily available gearbox. The BMW V8 boxes look a good bet for what I have in mind.

[Ahmedsinc 414]

Getrag 420G. though you'll have a hard time fitting it to anything aside from the matching engine. Afaik the bell housing is a one piece casting as part of the trans casing and they're specific to the V8, I6 & S54, three different ones in total.

Supra & skyline used the G233 apparently. G260 was used in the V6 Commodores, G290 was the 5 speed box used in the V8s up to the VT, then went to a 6 speed T56. You'll probably find a T56 for cheaper than a 420G unless you're planning to bring one in from overseas. Which engine are you toying with?

[gjm 3258]

... then went to a 6 speed T56. You'll probably find a T56 for cheaper than a 420G unless you're planning to bring one in from overseas.

This is also a consideration - I thought I'd look at BMW boxes first. I think some of those west-island based manufacturers used this, so maybe one can be found over here. Definitely a case of using an adapter plate though, rather than adapting to fit.

Which engine are you toying with?

Mercedes M117.

I can use a Getrag 265 but really wanted a 6-speed.

To fit the 265 you use the bellhousing from the US-spec M119 E420/500 W210 automatic - this is separate to the gearbox. Use a M116 350 flywheel (with 240mm clutch like the M5/M3), turning it down on the outside to fit the starter gear from the M119.

As you say, it's the 233 in the Supra and Skyline, 420G in the V8s, and it is the 560G in the E31 850s.

The 1995 Euro BMW M5 had a 280/6 - probably a bit like rocking horse droppings.

Early days... Just trying to line up a plan before acquiring any bits.

[Palazzo 474]

Whats wrong with the 233?

[Ahmedsinc 414]

T56 will probably stand up to more abuse for longer than the G420 but thats only my opinion.

Is this to possibly go in the 190E?

[MattA 162]

Graham, I know where there's one attached to the matching everything, for the right price

There was someone in Ashburton trying to sell on with a M60B30 on facebook?

[gjm 3258]

Whats wrong with the 233?

Nothing, as far as I know! Just considering options at the moment; there's probably be a few 233s around from cars with bent front or back (or both) ends.

Is this to possibly go in the 190E?

Possibly.

I know someone with a 190E fitted with a 6.0 Mercedes V8, but thought I'd be sensible and stick with 5 litres. I may have some issues with RHD - this conversion seems to work better on LHD cars.

I do know a man who has a full-blown 5.6 V8 race 190E, so will ask for some pointers.

[MattA 162]

AMG Hammer 6.0

[gjm 3258]

AMG Hammer 6.0

That was a W124.

[MattA 162]

That was a W124.

True, but a W201 variant would be tits!

[gjm 3258]

In the UK, I owned a Carlsson converted W201 with a 4.2 V8, the all-alloy M116. It predated the Subaru use of blue bodywork and gold wheels by a number of years. Bling!

That was an automatic.

[Dn540 67]

There is a guy on TM selling both an M117 and a manual transmission for it, i think the bellhousing had been professionally modified or something.

I'd love to turn my wagon into an E500 with the M119, wide body and all.

[gjm 3258]

There is a guy on TM selling both an M117 and a manual transmission for it, i think the bellhousing had been professionally modified or something.

I'd love to turn my wagon into an E500 with the M119, wide body and all.

If it is the one I think it is, he's being trying to sell the engine for quite some time.

And the box is from a W124 diesel. It'd work, but not really what I'm after.

[_ethrty-Andy_ 2132]

my 190E 2.0 i had 3 or 4 years back was a more comfortable car to drive in than an E30, but every other way it was worse.

Build your 5.0 190E so you can convince me otherwise.

[westy 614]

Check rebuild/parts availability for the 420. I've 'heard' they don't sell separate parts but could be bs.

[gjm 3258]

my 190E 2.0 i had 3 or 4 years back was a more comfortable car to drive in than an E30, but every other way it was worse.

Build your 5.0 190E so you can convince me otherwise.

They were originally aimed at very different markets, but Mercedes put a lot of effort into beating BMW on track.

I'd not considered that aspect of this, and I'm in two minds about rising to the challenge! It'd feel like your two children going head-to-head in a competition.

If it happens, it's a kind of 'because it's there' thing. Provided I can keep the balance right (and the M117 is actually a little lighter than the M103) it should be a lot of fun to drive.

[michhod 26]

ya gunna need slippers an' a pipe. All those old square faced Mercs were driven by grandpa's. Plus, puttin' BMW parts anywhere near a Merc is sacrilege...heavens sake honestly

[Dn540 67]

my 190E 2.0 i had 3 or 4 years back was a more comfortable car to drive in than an E30, but every other way it was worse.

Build your 5.0 190E so you can convince me otherwise.

I REALLY miss my '92 190E, hoping to get a 2.3-16 one day....

There is a build somewhere overseas which involved a 190E and an M113K, now that would be an insane little car.

The post '90 201's with the body cladding and updated interior etc are a far nicer car than their 80's brothers. I also believe the W201 looks and is built better than the E30 (putting my flame suit on)

ya gunna need slippers an' a pipe. All those old square faced Mercs were driven by grandpa's. Plus, puttin' BMW parts anywhere near a Merc is sacrilege...heavens sake honestly

You say that like us Merc' guys want to lower our engineering quality with BMW parts

[gjm 3258]

ya gunna need slippers an' a pipe. All those old square faced Mercs were driven by grandpa's. Plus, puttin' BMW parts anywhere near a Merc is sacrilege...heavens sake honestly

You say that like us Merc' guys want to lower our engineering quality with BMW parts

I was talking to a European specialist yesterday. I quote: "It's a BMW. It's not like it's a real car." I did chuckle.

The 190E is a nice car to drive. Different to a BMW definitely, but better or worse? Not in my opinion... Just different.

[thorburn 121]

If you'd prefer an easier option, I've got an m111k with mounts to suite a w201. Only wanting $400 for it.

I've also got a 5 speed out of a sprinter van that'll bolt up to it, and a parts car that'll be going thatll be going to the metal man soon.

[Dn540 67]

If you'd prefer an easier option, I've got an m111k with mounts to suite a w201. Only wanting $400 for it.

I've also got a 5 speed out of a sprinter van that'll bolt up to it, and a parts car that'll be going thatll be going to the metal man soon.

What's the box code? I could be interested if he's not.

[_ethrty-Andy_ 2132]

i only really brought the 190E so i could see how the other half lived. everything about Merc ownership just wasnt for me.

did take it on one trip to Hastings and it was comfy, but seriously lacked balls and could never find the right gear, from memory only a 3 speed on the 2.0L??

my E30 316i coupe i had at the time would have out paced it but gave engine troubles the day before i had to go and had to take the Merc.

Did look the biz, had the full AMG body kit etc was one of those jap import examples like you get with BMW, dressed up to look flash but nothing to back it up.

[gjm 3258]

i only really brought the 190E so i could see how the other half lived. everything about Merc ownership just wasnt for me.

did take it on one trip to Hastings and it was comfy, but seriously lacked balls and could never find the right gear, from memory only a 3 speed on the 2.0L??

my E30 316i coupe i had at the time would have out paced it but gave engine troubles the day before i had to go and had to take the Merc.

Did look the biz, had the full AMG body kit etc was one of those jap import examples like you get with BMW, dressed up to look flash but nothing to back it up.

The 1.8 and 2.0 engines aren't great... Good for pottering around but the 190 is too heavy a car for them to work. The 2.3-8V is better, and the 16v engines better still.

The straight 6 (2.6, 160hp) is a much better and more suitable engine but does carry a weight penalty. It goes well; put a stiff roll bar in the back and it handles nicely too. To get it to sporty BMW handling levels you need to investigate shocks and springs (or buy the Sportline model, c.f. BMW M-Sport suspension) but these were intended to be comfy cars first, and sporty cars second.

[michhod 26]

mmmm t'is a mad ole world... when will the craziness end

[Dn540 67]

The 1.8 and 2.0 engines aren't great... Good for pottering around but the 190 is too heavy a car for them to work. The 2.3-8V is better, and the 16v engines better still.

The straight 6 (2.6, 160hp) is a much better and more suitable engine but does carry a weight penalty. It goes well; put a stiff roll bar in the back and it handles nicely too. To get it to sporty BMW handling levels you need to investigate shocks and springs (or buy the Sportline model, c.f. BMW M-Sport suspension) but these were intended to be comfy cars first, and sporty cars second.

The 4cyl versions weigh a bit over 1100kg, quite light. I had a 2.0 8v and it definitely wasn't a rocket. But it got around hilly Dunedin very well and was great on the open road. The auto is to blame also as they start in 2nd gear. Loved how solid it felt, yet it's smaller than a modern Corolla.

Either a 2.3 or 2.5 16v is one of my dreams, missed out on one a few years ago.

In the words of Mercedes they were a compact executive car. If you wanted sporty, you bought the Sportline with upgraded springs, steering and seats or the beautiful Cosworth.

Most of them suffer these days due to the complexity of the Bosch CIS-E/KJET electro-mechanical injection, people mess around with all sorts of stuff on them with no clue. When I got mine, someone had "adjusted" the mixture screw but hadn't adjusted the rest of the corresponding systems and it was all over the place, ran like a sack of sh*t.