Stiffer E30 Springs

[Terroth 5]

TLDR: What springs are stiffer than King / Have less suspension travel?

 

So currently i'm running Koni Yellows and King Spring Lows all round, same as the E30 race series guys as it was the intention of the previous owner. Not mine though, i live 1500KM too far away for that.

My problem is the car squats like absolute crazy in the rear, the height is fine, could be tad bit lower but its nice for daily driving. The issue i have is that as soon as you load the suspension up, whether it be some hefty acceleration, going up a a steep street or driveway, or letting the fat boys sit in the back, it sags on its absolute ass, bit of a laugh really. I've attached photos of the daily grind out the driveway with no one in the car, first photo is in the garage, relatively flat surface, second is how much it squats in the rear pulling out the driveway (It gets this bad under heavy acceleration too). I haven't quite got any other photos to reference to in terms of other suspension setups, but I'm positive that this amount of squat is excessive for a lowered spring, stock maybe.  My issue, as you can probably tell from the photos is that it rubs when under that much load, not on the fender lip, but the actual fender skin inside. (In before get some proper fitting wheels and tyres).

So, to my question. Does anyone have recommendations to stiffer setups other than Kings? I've read that if it weren't for Jamex claiming the title they'd be one of the poorer / shittier choice? I'm aware of some of the other options such as H/R, Vogtland, and Dobi but would like some second opinions on what other people are running in their E30?

 

Cheers

Edited August 21, 2016 by Terroth

[E30 325i Rag-Top 2963]

Hmm, something doesn't seem quite right there. Have you checked your shocks and the springs to see if they are ok and not overly tired?

[Terroth 5]

Any proper ways of inspecting? They are only 3 - 4 years old at most, and visual inspection they appear fine, shocks seem to compress / rebound fine.

[E30 325i Rag-Top 2963]

VIsual is the only way really, short of taking them off and getting them put on a shock / spring tester which is a PITA.

Have you used the boot of the car for storage of some heavy parts for a long time? Can cause sagging of the back end?

The rear E30 King Spring is designed so that the end coils can compress up inside the main coils, giving extra length of compression and avoiding getting coil-binding. This does give more travel on the back end before it comes to a physical stop, not sure if that should give the symptoms you are describing though?

Even with my rears set to fully soft I have never (that I can remember) noticed a big problem with squat, but then as a race car it has absolutely bugger all weight in the back end compared to a road car with seats, spare tyre, jack, etc, even before you load in a couple of big mates. That could be the difference possibly, the race spring is set up for a lighter rear than for a road car??

[huff3r 347]

All I can add is that I might be vaguely interested in the kings if you do decide to ditch them. Lots of people are running H&Rs and I've only ever heard good things about them though, and thats from people running them in road cars not racecars.

 

I never had any squat in my racecar either, but again that was with no weight in the back. Had some in my old 320i as well, but can't comment much as I had to remove them because they weren't captive with my standard shocks.

[_ethrty-Andy_ 2136]

in my experience in many different E30s over the years, Kings both super low and low are steaming piles of garbage, and i rate them lower than jamex. i found exactly the same thing as you, barely usable on a road car, especially anything with a bit of balls like an 325i or an M52 swap etc.

jamex are about the same as cobra, vogtland etc. do the job they are designed to do, look the part and do provide an increase in handling performance over stock. I ran Jamex front and rear on my racer for a while. ran out of brakes a long time before i ran out of any handling. 

i run eibach springs in my E30 cabby and they do well, hard to say exactly since the body is decidedly soggy being a soft top anyways.

the best setup i have run short of coil overs is H and R cup springs with bilstein sport shocks. had this in my E30 M52 i built 6 or 7 years ago

E36 rear springs will also work in the E30, i think the fronts will too if you have 51mm struts. they are quite a bit stiffer, so to get the same height you need to remove the spring pads, even then might not be low enough. most of the lowering comes from how soft the springs are, the lower you go the softer the springs, its just how they work so they remain captive at full extension. if handling is more important than looks, you could look to do this.

I have a few options available if needed both E30 and E36 stuff etc.

[e30ftw 410]

Jamex are by far the worst in e30's, they sag like hell and are extremely soft. King's are progressive and already a higher rate than most aftermarket kits (440lbs rears and pretty sure King's are progressive).

You can always get your own rear springs, I have XYZ 670lbs rear springs in an e30 Touring, they are alot stiffer than stock but rides nice and doesn't slouch as much in the back with weight.

Spring---------------------Front(lb/in.)------------------Rear(lb/in.)

Stock 325i*-----------------------106-------------------------245
Stock 325is*----------------------118-------------------------265
Stock 325ix*----------------------106-------------------------308
Stock M3*-------------------------114------------------------314
Stock M3--------------------------140------------------------250
Dinan Sport-----------------------172-------------------------300
H&R OE Sport---------------------180-------------------------380
H&R Sport-------------------------180------------------------380
H&R Sport (29664)---------------200--------------------------285
H&R Race-------------------------315------------------------ 570
H&R Coilovers***----------------340--------------------------380
Eibach Pro-Kit--------------------114 --------------------------280-326 progressive
Eibach Race----------------------160--------------------------445
IE SIII----------------------------315--------------------------570
Koni Coilovers-------------------342----------------------------407
Cosmo Coilovers----------------450-----------------------------560
Tokico----------------------------165--------------------------265
TMS J-Stock**-------------------680--------------------------1026
Alpina(est.)---------------------~200-------------------------~350
FK 60/60 cup kit-----------------379----------------------------379
Vogtland Standard***--------115/197---------------------------360
Vogtland CS***---------------137/200--------------------------400
Vogtland--------------------------225--------------------------360
Intrax-----------------------------126--------------------------250
King Springs "Low" -------- KDFL-01 220----------------KDRBL-14 440

[NVADER 54]

Agree with Andy, I'd take Jamex over King's any day. H&R's would have to be my top pick though and they can be had for sweet fa via ebay

[E30-323ti 66]

Agree that pic does look odd.

A long time ago I had the Kings Lows with Koni Yellow's and it was never like that.
They were too soft though. Prior to them I had Jamex Springs which were terrible.

Be careful putting cylindrical type springs, as they will coilbind before the bumpstops and destroy your trailing arms, if you are lucky enough to not get thrown off the road.
There is a reason the stock springs are barrel shaped.

With that in mind, I would look at the voltgand VSS springs, TC Kline used to sell these, and they come in a variety of spring rates and possibly lengths.

[jonoe30 53]

Any chance you could post a side on picture of your E30iC on the Eibachs Andy? Are they the cab specific springs and are you running E90 drop-hats or thinner/thicker spring pads? I've brought Bilstein B8s but haven't fitted them yet due mainly to laziness and weariness about what springs I'm going to match them with, was thinking of going the H&R route but am worried about ride being too harsh for a DD.

Edited September 6, 2016 by jonoe30

[Mark 178]

On H&R sports (35mm drop) and Koni adjustable shocks.

 

[adro 1084]

 

H & R sports + Koni adjustables + e90 top hats + double padded (5mm) the rear springs.

[_ethrty-Andy_ 2136]

On 6 September 2016 at 6:16 PM, jonoe30 said:

Any chance you could post a side on picture of your E30iC on the Eibachs Andy? Are they the cab specific springs and are you running E90 drop-hats or thinner/thicker spring pads? I've brought Bilstein B8s but haven't fitted them yet due mainly to laziness and weariness about what springs I'm going to match them with, was thinking of going the H&R route but am worried about ride being too harsh for a DD.

how is this one?

Non cabby specific. just coupe ones. Stock E30 drop hats and spring pads in the front, pretty sure no spring pads in the back (had to to level it up), and bear in mind they are 16" wheels with oversize 55 profile tyres (e36 size) which both make the car higher off the ground, and also tuck the tyre more. 

My 2 cents, Not much handling gain to be had from a cabby unless you start installing chassis braces under the car etc which all adds weight, they are pushing 1400kg as it is, quite lardy. combined with a lazy M20 they aren't really a sports car so i would and have focused on the look more than any handling gain. Any "better" spring would really be wasted on a cabby. they are a lot more flex to them a coupe, you can tell when you jack it up or driving along and go over manhole cover etc.

[jonoe30 53]

Thanks for the pic Andy and the info on what you're running, good to see a comparison especially with FL rear arches. I might see how they run with springs I have and change if I need to. I'm not looking for sporting improvements with the weak chassis, but I want to avoid crashing through road undulations as I do now, without creating a huge fender gap. I like the current stance, but previous owner lowered it on stock shocks so that's half the problem, will see if the bilsteins sort it, but have a feeling the springs are going to be a bit too spongy still - I just need to bite the bullet and do it... won't take too long to change the springs later if I need to!