Random thoughts on the E46 vs the E92

[Herbmiester 923]

As the owner of both an E46 330ci and an E92 335i I thought I might share what I see as the noteworthy points. I have to say that my 330ci is not stock especially with regard to the suspension but as I have also driven a fairly stock 328i Motorsport recently I can hopefully give a fair appraisal. Firstly with regard to engines the N54 is a cracker, now mine is running correctly it's a joy to drive and obviously it has potential for quite a bit more. You can catch it out on occasion and have to wait for the boost to arrive but on the whole the small turbos spool quickly and give a nice linear response. The M54 is a good engine and with 170 Kw it's not a slug but the N54 will hose it. I will say that having driven a few M54B30's they can feel a bit lifeless in the midrange if the DISA and VANOS are not working correctly. Fix those ( As I have done) and the midrange is really quite good and the mellow torque you feel in the M50/52 is replaced by a good strong shove. 

Both my cars are Auto and the 6HP is definitely a step above the 5HP. That said for winding roads I find using the manual shift option on both cars actually works quite well, better in the 335i of course. Manuals or a DCT in the 335i would be better for press on driving but you pay a hefty premium to shift yourself so you have to factor that in. 

Interior wise the I think Its closer. The 335i looks more modern and the 330ci looks older by comparison but ergonomics might actually be with the e46 and while the 335i has more adjustability in the seats the E46 seating position is a bit lower and there is a bit more legroom up front as well. The E46 seating position really is very good. In the back the 330ci is a 3 seater while the 335i is only two, as I have two kids and they both fit in there I call this even as the 335i has a bit more rear leg room. The I drive in the 2007/8 iteration is ok but a good aftermarket audio system that you can fit into the e46 is probably just as good an option. The I Drive St Nav works buts it's a bit slow and not anywhere as easy to use as Google Maps. Audio quality is just a shade better in the 335i but the head unit in the 330ci is lower mid range and lacks quality DAC's. Both have big usefull boots and decent lights. There are a few more bits and bobs in the 335i like auto wipers and headlights that turn when you turn but they are small things that really dont have a big influence on my ownership experience. 

Externally it's a personal thing but the 335i looks more Coupe than the E46 which is to me almost a 2 door sedan. I love silver as a colour and the Blue of the 330ci is not one of my favourite shades of blue so I personally like the look of the 335i better.

Chassis wise its interesting, the 335i has active steering and this results in a fast rack, steering in the 335i requires less input and feels very direct, the 330ci rack has more play and is less precise on centre but has a little bit more feedback but that could be down to tyres as the Nitto NT830's on the front of the 335i are ok but they are a touring tyre so they find their limits quite early. The 330ci is obviously an evolution of the E36 (and up front the E30), the rear Z Axle is a proven system and really it could be argued that while the 335i system is more advanced it's only incrementally better. This of course is dependent on how you set it up and the ancient trailing arm setup of the E30 still has its fans even though the mid corner lift off toe changes scare the sh*t out of me. The 335i does have a small advantage when retrofitting with M3 parts as it seems they are easier to obtain and fit. Stock the 335i has a small rear anti roll bar and stiff rear springs, like the 330ci there is no LSD so it's all done with electronics, this can give a bit of a disconcerting feel at times and an LSD would surely help here. This is magnified by by bigger HP and tq numbers. I feel that the stock (Msport) 330ci rear is better balanced than the 335ci rear as it is setup from the factory. Up front I favour the 335i just and to be fair this is mainly about the quick response from the rack and this may yet increase when I fit the M3 Arms and Konis. In push on driving the 330ci feels like it has a lower roll centre and with the Ohlins suspension it's more composed than both the 328i and the 335i. The 328i  did exhibit a similar confidence inspiring feel however but its limit was quite a bit lower even though it was running on 18's and Michelin tyres, (The Ohlins Suspension is a bit of an unfair advantage). 

I will get serious about selling the 330ci at some stage but I have to say chassis wise it's still a very competent car and it has proven to be more reliable than the 335i. The 335i is faster and while there is nothing in it brake wise the 330ci is more confidence inspiring in the corners but as mentioned that may change when I fit the M3 parts to the 335i. My love of horsepower will always give the 335i the win but a quick blat over the Rimutakas yesterday in the 330ci showed me its still got a lot to offer.

Edited May 4, 2017 by Herbmiester

[allan 295]

Interesting to read your view point. The one thing that stands out for me in your post is the work you have done or are going to do to these vehicles. Why if BMW's are supposed to be so good do they require all these  mod's especially M3 parts to be carried out or is it a personnel thing?. Have owned two e46's myself a M sport sedan and currently a 325ti  which was a project. Both i have found to be to reliant on electronic wizardry which  I hear only gets worse in the later models. As for the suspension steering etc the M sport is firm and on most NZ road is very harsh on smoother roads could be ok. Steering on the sedan i found was not bad positive both in turn and some feed back through the wheel. The compact even more so and took a bit of getting used to compared to the e46 Sedan and 530. The correct tyre type I feel has a lot to do with this aspect as well as good suspension bushes. Engine wise I have only read about the N54 that it has a lot of hp that can be released but at a price( no surprises their) not only $$$ wise but also at reducing the manufacturers safety margins before engine damage occurs.The M54 engine "according to every one" is a reliable unit why then does it suffer from so may problems oil leaks, cam cover ,lower housing oil filter gaskets, sump gaskets,vanos seals, drive belt tensioners, spring/ hydraulic types, crank case ventilation, cam sensors, fan clutch, cooling system etc. These vehicles are now starting to age sure and this could be a factor for some of these faults but so why when new they still had these faults?. Best of luck with your mods John on the 335 you will no doubt have good times and bad while you carry them out.

Edited May 4, 2017 by allan

[*Glenn* 854]

Any BMW with the engine prefex (N) as in N42, N54, N46, N62 etc having done 100k or more or over 5 years old is a money pit full stop

Edited May 4, 2017 by *Glenn*

[BreakMyWindow 1874]

1 hour ago, *Glenn* said:

Any BMW with the engine prefex (N) as in N42, N54, N46, N62 etc having done 100k or more or over 5 years old is a money pit full stop

BMW Engines also prefixed with 'S' too :-)

[aja540i 1906]

33 minutes ago, BreakMyWindow said:

BMW Engines also prefixed with 'S' too :-)

At least the S engines give you some reward for all your $$.

[Herbmiester 923]

3 hours ago, aja540i said:

At least the S engines give you some reward for all your $$.

Oh the N54 gives reward 400plus Hp is more than an S54 can muster (without a big $ investment) and you get the bonus of  big torque. 

[richard 384]

N54B30 (225 kW version)[edit]

For the E90/E91/E92/E93 3-Series, the N54 engine was used in the 335i model from 2007 onwards. In the 3-series, it therefore replaced the 330i (which used the naturally aspirated N52B30 as the performance model below the M3).

This version is rated at 225 kW (302 hp) and 400 N·m.^[4] However, independent testing has resulted in estimates of 332 hp (248 kW) and 311 lb·ft/422 N·m.^[5]

[Herbmiester 923]

5 hours ago, allan said:

Interesting to read your view point. The one thing that stands out for me in your post is the work you have done or are going to do to these vehicles. Why if BMW's are supposed to be so good do they require all these  mod's especially M3 parts to be carried out or is it a personnel thing?. Have owned two e46's myself a M sport sedan and currently a 325ti  which was a project. Both i have found to be to reliant on electronic wizardry which  I hear only gets worse in the later models. As for the suspension steering etc the M sport is firm and on most NZ road is very harsh on smoother roads could be ok. Steering on the sedan i found was not bad positive both in turn and some feed back through the wheel. The compact even more so and took a bit of getting used to compared to the e46 Sedan and 530. The correct tyre type I feel has a lot to do with this aspect as well as good suspension bushes. Engine wise I have only read about the N54 that it has a lot of hp that can be released but at a price( no surprises their) not only $$$ wise but also at reducing the manufacturers safety margins before engine damage occurs.The M54 engine "according to every one" is a reliable unit why then does it suffer from so may problems oil leaks, cam cover ,lower housing oil filter gaskets, sump gaskets,vanos seals, drive belt tensioners, spring/ hydraulic types, crank case ventilation, cam sensors, fan clutch, cooling system etc. These vehicles are now starting to age sure and this could be a factor for some of these faults but so why when new they still had these faults?. Best of luck with your mods John on the 335 you will no doubt have good times and bad while you carry them out.

Personally my experience is that BMW's have inherently decent chassis' but they are not perfect and many other manufacturers can claim equivalence or better these days. That said BMW's are cheap in NZ and when a car that was north or 100k in 2007 only cost 20k in 2016 then it makes the expense of average reliability at higher KM's easier to digest. I have noticed that that as BMW's get older the aftermarket parts become pretty cheap, not much more than Toyota. With my 330ci most of the components that attach to the engine had to be replaced or repaired so the cheapish costs here make it less onerous, but like any make once you have a passion you tend to buy on emotion and justify with warped logic. 

As regards suspension one man's stiff is another mans soft, I dont mind a stiffish ride but in the case of my Ohlins small bump compliance is better than M Sport by a noticeable margin so I sort of get the best of both worlds. 

I have not found the N54 reliable but like the M54 its all the stuff bolted to engine rather than the engine itself.  I dont do big KM's in my cars 5-7k per annum so in 4 years time when I upgrade my 335i will still be around 100k  by then it will be a 12-15k car perhaps and that opens it up to a whole new market of buyers. Yes I modify my cars I always have and I have always ended up with a superior product. BMW are no different to any other manufacturer there are compromises and some I live with and some I fix.

I would also say the N54 is relatively cheap to modify especially compared to an N/A car.

Edited May 4, 2017 by Herbmiester

[Herbmiester 923]

7 minutes ago, richard said:

N54B30 (225 kW version)[edit]

For the E90/E91/E92/E93 3-Series, the N54 engine was used in the 335i model from 2007 onwards. In the 3-series, it therefore replaced the 330i (which used the naturally aspirated N52B30 as the performance model below the M3).

This version is rated at 225 kW (302 hp) and 400 N·m.^[4] However, independent testing has resulted in estimates of 332 hp (248 kW) and 311 lb·ft/422 N·m.^[5]

Sorry I should have said 400plus in modified form. 

[richard 384]

what do you bolt on to your car to get the extra 70 plus hp.

[Herbmiester 923]

7 minutes ago, richard said:

what do you bolt on to your car to get the extra 70 plus hp.

Intercooler and Charge Pipe, Then tune with MHD. A stage 1 plus tune for 98 octane will give 360 to 380 HP.  A stage 2 MHD tune with replaced down pipes will get you over 400. You can of course have the tune customised to suit you mods.

 

Edited May 4, 2017 by Herbmiester

[jake1829 119]

Interesting take about the E46 vs the E9X models John

I came from a E46 325 before I got the 335i , tho my E46 was pretty much just standard so for me the experience was a big upgrade going to the 335i

The stock suspension / runflat tires on the 335i is pretty weak imo , scared myself a few times when I was running a tune/upgraded power and a trackday at hampton showed me the glaring weakness of the setup , its probably a fine setup at stock power levels

WIth the M3 suspension parts fitted (all apart from the rear M3 sway bar) with KW coilovers, LSD and sticky PSS , I think it handles well now for the power level its at 

It sucks with the model/year of your 335i john that your auto transmission doesn't support the transmission flash (XHP or Alpina) , to me that was a another big upgrade

Also when you run a ethanol map on the car, you'll notice how different the car is , that TQ life

5 hours ago, allan said:

Engine wise I have only read about the N54 that it has a lot of hp that can be released but at a price( no surprises their) not only $$$ wise but also at reducing the manufacturers safety margins before engine damage occurs.

These engines are surprisingly strong , quite a few people in the USA have been running 600RWHP+ (with single or upgraded twins) on the stock engine

The take from the community is that above 650+RWHP on stock block is when it will go at some stage 

 

5 hours ago, *Glenn* said:

Any BMW with the engine prefex (N) as in N42, N54, N46, N62 etc having done 100k or more or over 5 years old is a money pit full stop

I've nearly put on 100,000km from my 4 years ownership of the car 

4 hours ago, aja540i said:

At least the S engines give you some reward for all your $$.

in my rear mirror ?

 

[Herbmiester 923]

Yeah disappointed that my trans can't take the flash but as its a street car rather than a track day car it makes it easier to live with. Even on the street I can notice that the rear is not properly sorted. LSD and a  bigger rear bar are on the cards. 

To be honest I didn't pay much for my 335i so if I spend some cash on it then It won't stress too much.