M42 swapping E30

[leightonf 7]

Not sure this belongs in “performance” as it seems like ditching the M40 is general maintenance at this point;

Looking for some first hand experience putting a M42 into and ex-M40 equipped E30, hopefully someone can help with the following..

1. Does donor car make any difference since I’m using an E30 318is loom and ECU? Things like sensor locations, updated engine revisions, better spec’d models?

2. Is it possible to use the E36 intake manifold (ie, does it physically fit. Not bothered about which is better out of E30/E36 for performance)

3. Options for exhaust manifolds? Obviously E30 318is but that’s $$, I’ve read M44 potentially works with our RHD models?

My goal is a cheap & cheerful repower for a daily driver, not looking for performance so please please keep the “pUt A SiX iN it” and turbo comments to a minimum ?

[turbolizard 38]

I can confirm M44 exhaust manifold will work, at least on a car with no power steering (although I doubt power steering is an issue).  I used ITBs and made a custom wiring loom so cant really advise on these aspects.

[Gaz 1061]

I think i read somewhere that z3 ones are a good fit and upgrade. Could be worth looking into 

[alisterh 26]

Here is my thread from a few years ago. 

I would probably suggest using the loom and ecu from the donor car if you end up using a e36 engine. E36 engines have knock sensors and disa which wouldn't work with an E30 ecu.

Yes e36 intake manifold works fine. You might want to make a support bracket to hold it up from below as the E30 arms don't have the brackets to support it like in the e36

When I did my swap exhaust manifolds could be found relatively cheap.

I would find a late e36 m42 engine as they had the revised timing chain/guide system.

[leightonf 7]

On 6/28/2020 at 8:52 PM, turbolizard said:

I can confirm M44 exhaust manifold will work, at least on a car with no power steering (although I doubt power steering is an issue).  I used ITBs and made a custom wiring loom so cant really advise on these aspects.

Awesome, I’ll see what’s easier to find out either M44 or E30is

ITB is so tempting! Should probably get the swap done first though.. Any pics/build thread?

[leightonf 7]

On 6/28/2020 at 10:39 PM, alisterh said:

Here is my thread from a few years ago. 

I would probably suggest using the loom and ecu from the donor car if you end up using a e36 engine. E36 engines have knock sensors and disa which wouldn't work with an E30 ecu.

Yes e36 intake manifold works fine. You might want to make a support bracket to hold it up from below as the E30 arms don't have the brackets to support it like in the e36

When I did my swap exhaust manifolds could be found relatively cheap.

I would find a late e36 m42 engine as they had the revised timing chain/guide system.

Thanks for the info, I do remember reading your build a while ago.

Doesnt the late E36 have some sort of built in immobiliser or fancyness with the keys?

Also interesting that the ECU is involved in the disa system, with the age of it I was assuming it was just some vacuum controlled flappy arrangement.. Do you know any more detail on how it’s sensed/controlled?

Also also where did you get your exh manifold? eBay? Surely if exhaust is out there then intake stuff should be too

[Olaf 3317]

10 minutes ago, leightonf said:

Doesnt the late E36 have some sort of built in immobiliser or fancyness with the keys?

you're talking about EWS.  You can get a chip that takes this out.

 

On 6/28/2020 at 3:50 PM, leightonf said:

1. Does donor car make any difference since I’m using an E30 318is loom and ECU? Things like sensor locations, updated engine revisions, better spec’d models?

2. Is it possible to use the E36 intake manifold (ie, does it physically fit. Not bothered about which is better out of E30/E36 for performance)

3. Options for exhaust manifolds? Obviously E30 318is but that’s $$, I’ve read M44 potentially works with our RHD models?

1.  Are you using an e30 318iS loom?  Where'd you find that?

2.  I understand the e36 intake manifold works and fits beneath the e30 hood.  e36 is the most common source down here in the shaky isles ?

3.  I've read (here on Bimmersport) that the M44 works.  What I'd like to know, is does it need to be M44 from Z3, or any RHD M44 manifold.

I'm preparing for the same repower myself (including cert) for next year.  Mind you, my M40B16 is great fun and running really sweetly in the mean time.

I'm interested in doing coil-over conversion on M42 also.  Have you found a source for the coil mounting plate?  Ideally someone's open-sourced the file so we could both get one milled up?

[alisterh 26]

The Disa system is pretty simple but yeah still controlled by the ECU, this link should give you more info https://carchat.org/articles/1394-bmw-m42-engine-technical-information-e36

My exhaust manifold was from someone on the e30zone forum. There should be plenty of intakes around as the USA has plenty of E30 m42s. For me it just seemed easier to use the whole e36 engine as is.

[alisterh 26]

6 minutes ago, Olaf said:

I'm interested in doing coil-over conversion on M42 also.  Have you found a source for the coil mounting plate?  Ideally someone's open-sourced the file so we could both get one milled up?

I may have a spare cop plate. I had two made when mine was done, it's not the prettiest but works fine. I Also have pdf of the dimensions  

[Olaf 3317]

Just now, alisterh said:

I may have a spare cop plate. I had two made when mine was done, it's not the prettiest but works fine. I Also have pdf of the dimensions  

I'm a bit behind @leightonf in readiness, he could probably use the coil plate ahead of me... care to share the PDF?  If Leighton doesn't want the plate you have, I can pay you for it. 

[alisterh 26]

I have found the COP guide I used http://bmwz3diys.weebly.com/coil-on-plug-conversion.html

[Olaf 3317]

@alisterh that's awesome, a real wealth of knowledge!  Thanks man!  

[gjm 3258]

I do believe I have a set of 6 COPs bagged up in the container here... 

[aja540i 1906]

I modified the rocker cover for my M42 to take the bolts for the COP units without needing the extra plate, I may have posted on here about it when I did it.

[Olaf 3317]

@aja540i Andrew I don't recall seeing that; what was involved?

[aja540i 1906]

Cut some risers from solid aluminium round bar, 16mm I think, shaped to fit rocker cover, welded on, drilled and tapped M6 holes, powder coated wrinkle black. Couldn't be easier!

[leightonf 7]

19 hours ago, Olaf said:

I'm a bit behind @leightonf in readiness, he could probably use the coil plate ahead of me... care to share the PDF?  If Leighton doesn't want the plate you have, I can pay you for it. 

You go for it mate, I haven’t decided what I’m doing for coils yet. But if I do CoP then I’ll do something like the welded bosses @aja540i has done, that looks classy. I’d be keen to see it with the coils on and to know whether you had to modify the #1, or is that an E36 problem?

Also yes, if you can believe it I got the E30 318iS loom and computer basically for free with my manual conversion (which was definitely not free) out of the states. They only got the M42 there I believe so it’s equivalent to what a M40 loom would be worth here.

Do you really need a cert for what is effectively a factory repower? It’s not like an E30 never came with M42 motors from factory. And standard I doubt it’d hit the threshold for power increases..

20 hours ago, alisterh said:

The Disa system is pretty simple but yeah still controlled by the ECU, this link should give you more info https://carchat.org/articles/1394-bmw-m42-engine-technical-information-e36

My exhaust manifold was from someone on the e30zone forum. There should be plenty of intakes around as the USA has plenty of E30 m42s. For me it just seemed easier to use the whole e36 engine as is.

Thanks for the info mate, I should have re-read your build/guide before replying because it’s all there. Feels like keeping the DISA is the right way to go and just figure out a nice way to adapt the C101.

Was there a reason for using the E36 starter, alternator and power steering? Are they different mounting from M40 stuff or just newer?

[Olaf 3317]

48 minutes ago, aja540i said:

Cut some risers from solid aluminium round bar, 16mm I think, shaped to fit rocker cover, welded on, drilled and tapped M6 holes, powder coated wrinkle black. Couldn't be easier!

Pics or it didn't happen!! ?  Sounds very classy.

EDIT - Oh yeah sorry there it is!!  Wow.

Edited July 1, 2020 by Olaf
oops

[Olaf 3317]

25 minutes ago, leightonf said:

You go for it mate, I haven’t decided what I’m doing for coils yet. But if I do CoP then I’ll do something like the welded bosses @aja540i has done, that looks classy. I’d be keen to see it with the coils on and to know whether you had to modify the #1, or is that an E36 problem?

Also yes, if you can believe it I got the E30 318iS loom and computer basically for free with my manual conversion (which was definitely not free) out of the states. They only got the M42 there I believe so it’s equivalent to what a M40 loom would be worth here.

Do you really need a cert for what is effectively a factory repower? It’s not like an E30 never came with M42 motors from factory. And standard I doubt it’d hit the threshold for power increases..

Thanks for the info mate, I should have re-read your build/guide before replying because it’s all there. Feels like keeping the DISA is the right way to go and just figure out a nice way to adapt the C101.

Was there a reason for using the E36 starter, alternator and power steering? Are they different mounting from M40 stuff or just newer?

iS loom is a score!  I think modifying #1 is the requirement due to proximity of mounting hole, and standard spec of those coils.  Yes, USA is an M40-free zone.

Yes I understand a cert is required, going by the rules.

I think sticking with the e36 DISA manifold (if the engine is sourced from e36) is a 'why wouldn't ya?' thing - yes we could be purists and shop for e30 intake manifolds, but you'd miss out on DISA benefits and a few extra horsepower.  And as you point out, needs the engine management to run it.  @alisterh has a great wiring chart for the C101 adaptor.

[alisterh 26]

1 hour ago, leightonf said:

Was there a reason for using the E36 starter, alternator and power steering? Are they different mounting from M40 stuff or just newer?

Either starter would work I think but the belts are different. Serpentine on e36 and vbelt on E30, so you would have to make sure all your pulleys match the style you go with.

[Gaz 1061]

I don't think you need a cert for the engine swap but technically you do for the manual conversion 

[aja540i 1906]

I think you will get away with it if ALL of the components are unmodified factory parts, I recall looking into when I had the 540i swapped.

[alisterh 26]

The certification threshold seems to always be changing even different rules from when I did mine but yes currently you technically do.

Edited July 1, 2020 by alisterh

[wrs 120]

17 minutes ago, Gaz said:

I don't think you need a cert for the engine swap but technically you do for the manual conversion 

You might get away with it - I didn't. I did a manual conversion about 5 years ago and been getting warrant fine through vtnz since then - until the last one. They finally picked up it was a manual now and was originally an auto. They made me get it cert'd...

If you need to get it cert'd you'll also need driveshaft hoop(s). The cert guy wouldn't even look at it until the hoops were in even though every part on the car was OE and there was no cutting, welding or modification.

You'll also need a cert if you touch/change the brake pedal assembly (which has to be changed to a manual one for manual conversion).

Edited July 1, 2020 by wrs

[Olaf 3317]

5 minutes ago, alisterh said:

The certification threshold seems to always be changing even different rules from when I did mine but yes currently you technically do.

so on the basis of not the same or less capacity, and; not same number of valves and camshafts, and 138hp (e36 DISA M42) is more than 20% greater than 102hp (M40B16 in my case).  Hopefully driveshaft hoops remain not a requirement.  Thanks for that ref, @alisterh