The Barbara Chronicles

[Eagle 1662]

ABS rhythmically clicking when ignition on is normal

[Vass 831]

Update. Looks like EWS is the culprit. Followed the trick in this video at around 3 minutes in - unplugged the EWS, stuck a 30 Amp fuse into the first two slots and got her cranking! Will crack on and see if I can figure out a fix.

[Eagle 1662]

Maybe try re-align the EWS then, may of gone out sync. Seems odd the module or key would suddenly fail given you had it running all good before swapping?

[Vass 831]

Went to EWS coding and switched the transmission coding to manual which essentially gets rid of the need for the clutch switch to turn on. Happily started cranking away.

Weird thing is, even before I did that I could have sworn I saw the clutch switch work looking at the live data, but now it does nothing. But that might have been the live data view in INPA instead. The real test will be whether it'll suffer from rev hang and fails to disable cruise control. Will see. If so then either the clutch switch has gone bad or I've messed up the wiring somehow.

Anyway, cranked it for a good 10-15 seconds with the main relay and fuel pump fuse removed, then refitted them and... here we are. Didn't want to let it idle for long so shut it down after a steady 10 seconds or so. Plus the neighbours next door have barely a month old baby and this thing sounded like a bloody tractor with no exhaust on so didn't want to be a pest. Feels like the final mile of a long race. Didn't get as far as I hoped to today but touching distance now. Don't want to jinx it again so will just see how it goes.

Also, don't know what people do with heat shields when manual converting but this really doesn't sit well with me. Did a quick post on FB asking what others have done and the recommended solution seems to be not to worry about it. Thinking I might pop by Pick-A-Part again, cut off a front section of a similar heat shield and tidily jam it in there somehow to fill the gap. Or, you know, might just hakuna matata.

[Eagle 1662]

8 hours ago, Vass said:

Went to EWS coding and switched the transmission coding to manual which essentially gets rid of the need for the clutch switch to turn on. Happily started cranking away.

Weird thing is, even before I did that I could have sworn I saw the clutch switch work looking at the live data, but now it does nothing. But that might have been the live data view in INPA instead. The real test will be whether it'll suffer from rev hang and fails to disable cruise control. Will see. If so then either the clutch switch has gone bad or I've messed up the wiring somehow.

Likely wiring. Had a similar issue myself with the pin 7 wire. If its not showing in INPA no cruise and rev hang are expected.       

 

[Vass 831]

Well, was fun while it lasted... All 5 minutes of it.

The heatshield thing wouldn't give me peace so once again returned to Pick-A-Part and nabbed a front section of a similar heatshield and mashed together an extension. Quite pleased with myself with how it turned out.

Bolted up the exhaust with new hangers and fresh braces, started her up again, bled the power steering and cooling system, topped up oil, then dropped her down, torqued up the sway bar brackets and wheel nuts, ready for its first run.

Went for a quick run around the block. The clutch felt a bit weird and will take some getting used to. First time driving a manual BMW so not sure how it's supposed to feel like. Probably down to it being a double mass flywheel and the clutch not bedded in yet. Lifters ticking away as was to be expected, otherwise ran really well. Was absolutely buzzing to have her up and running again. All the good vibes got wiped away though as I checked the underside.

FFS

Not a small leak either. Left a good trail all along the road as well. Absolutely pissing out engine oil. Gearbox out it is...

I suspect it's the rear main seal. Thinking back now, I do remember being a bit unsure about it. I ran it in flush with the housing but originally I think it sat about 1-2mm proud. Thought it'd be fine, obviously mistakenly so. Remember seeing FCP Euro mention a special installation tool in one of their videos but then again others have just ran it in using the old seal with a block of wood so went with that approach. Must have messed it up somehow. Will hopefully see the issue once the box is out. Will just get this kit if that's the issue, don't want to trust myself with that again.

Bit disheartening after spending my whole Christmas break on it but it is what it is, learning things the hard way. Not giving up.

[Vass 831]

13 hours ago, Eagle said:

Likely wiring. Had a similar issue myself with the pin 7 wire. If its not showing in INPA no cruise and rev hang are expected.       

On the bright side though, prior to all this I hooked up INPA and verified that it's getting the clutch switch signal, so at least that's all good. Didn't check cruise control but no rev hang so will take the small win. Might have messed up the one wire going to the EWS then. Least of my worries for now though.

[Eagle 1662]

Damn that's bad alright, something must be really fubar. Sealant on the base and edges? Your machine shop done any work there? Installed flush is fine, maybe its not quite even or somehow damaged during install.  On the bright side at least with a leak like that you can run it up on stands to see when the box is off being manual.

Self adjusting clutches dont have the best feel, but if the springs aren't set properly or moved during install it would probably feel weird im guessing. Think i pm'd you about that when i sold it to you?. You will have to reset it now anyway since you are taking off the flywheel. Hope you got a big 3 jaw.

[Eagle 1662]

49 minutes ago, Vass said:

On the bright side though, prior to all this I hooked up INPA and verified that it's getting the clutch switch signal, so at least that's all good. Didn't check cruise control but no rev hang so will take the small win. Might have messed up the one wire going to the EWS then. Least of my worries for now though.

All good. Dont need the EWS wire anyway.

[Vass 831]

Yeah definitely put sealant on the joins there, also thread sealer on the two big bolts that go all the way through. Not sure what the machine shop might have done beyond chuck it in the cleaner.

Yeah I remember you mentioning resetting the springs. Think you also said they looked fine on the pictures so I just chucked it on. Wasn't sure what I was looking for with those anyway but will have to revisit and figure out how to reset. Will grab a puller off a mate.

Was actually keen to keep the depress-clutch-to-start function. Good little precaution when left in gear as I often do.

Edited January 12, 2023 by Vass

[Eagle 1662]

They looked pretty good when i sent it to you but may not of been completely retracted. The springs can move in certain conditions, probably more likely when doing it up. They used to come with a set with a locking plate that you removed after installing the pressure plate, seems they don't ship with that anymore. Suppose to use a special tool when doing them up, given the cost of it i doubt it's common though.

 

[Vass 831]

Gearbox is out but now I'm left with more questions than answers. A good puddle of engine oil left in the bell housing but the rear main seal... bone dry. Flywheel bolts don't have any oil on them either so the sealant must have done its job pretty well.

Doesn't help that the engine oil is still new so finding it hard to pin down the culprit. Only obvious place that's soaked in oil is the left side long oil pan bolt. The rest of them are all dry. Almost looks like the oil is running out down that bolt hole which is very peculiar.

The area above it looks to be dry and doesn't look like anything is coming out from the oil pan gasket above, only through the bolt hole. Localised oil pan gasket failure?

But then it gets weirder. Peeking in from above the engine bay, also noticed a small puddle forming just below the starter, around the crank position sensor. Was hard to get a picture in between all the plumbing but this is the area on the old engine. Judging by how caked up the whole area on that is, looks like that may be a common failure spot. Pretty peculiar for it to already start leaking after driving all of 3 km, being a brand new sensor with a brand new O-ring. Would it really produce such a strong drip? Is that the main leak that's dunning all the way down along the bolt or is it two separate leaks already?

Gets even weirder still looking at the engine backing plate where in addition to the area where the sensor is, there is another wet patch above the starter. Absolutely no idea where that could be coming from. Too tight to stick my head in there to see but it's all dry on the gearbox side of that spot and feeling around I couldn't find any obvious wet spots either. Might have to remove the intake again to check. FFS.

Really at my wit's end at this point. None of those look like they would produce a strong enough leak to be pissing out as it way. As a quick fix all I can think of is take out that bolt and refit it with a bunch of thread sealer but absolutely no guarantee it would hold.

Looking back through the photos post machine shop work, this is that that area looked like. Naturally they managed to f**k up the edges so I filed the high spots down and made sure to put some extra RTV along the join. Also took a 400 grit sandpaper and got rid of the remnants of the old pan gasket. Thought I got it pretty tidy without introducing any deep scuffs.

On 1/12/2023 at 11:09 PM, Eagle said:

On the bright side at least with a leak like that you can run it up on stands to see when the box is off being manual.

Fair point but how would that work exactly? With the gearbox out there's nothing holding the starter in place...

Pisses me off honestly. Thought I messed up the RMS but now don't know what else to point the finger at other than the shitty machine work. Put my whole holiday brake into this, put off any trip plans we might have had, now going back to work Monday more tired than I was before and with f**k all to show for it. Honestly don't know what the f**k to do anymore other than pull the engine and source another second hand one.

[Eagle 1662]

Well that sucks. As you said its hard to diagnose in that area and you've had so much work done. Guess the problem is now that you were certain it was the real main seal you removed the box, as you say you can't start the engine (was thinking starter bolts to engine for some dumb reason). Bore scope come in very handy for situations like these, but i think could still visually check it with the right angle, maybe with some stuff removed. 

Oil pool under the crankshaft sensor i would say coming from that, dont see how that much oil could get there if you can feel anything from obvious from above. Oil does tend to wick a little so that may explain the small amount on the on the bell housing plate.  

You might be right about multiple leaks. As you say it could be a machining issue or a gasket failure. I id think start with the crank sensor since that the easiest and make sure no other external leaks from above. It that checks out then it has to be something to do with the gasket or seal surface around that pan area (engine out job i would assume)  

[Eagle 1662]

Im got the manifold off on @hunter E39 atm so i took a look. The recess below the crank sensor is concave and slanted towards the rear, i sprayed brake cleaner into it and worked it way down the rear oil pan bolts\engine casting out the middle of the bellhousing.

[Vass 831]

33 minutes ago, Eagle said:

Im got the manifold off on @hunter E39 atm so i took a look. The recess below the crank sensor is concave and slanted towards the rear, i sprayed brake cleaner into it and worked it way down the rear oil pan bolts\engine casting out the middle of the bellhousing.

Yeah manifold out is the next logical step for me. Will see from there. Cheers 

[Vass 831]

Intake off, not sure if I'm any wiser. Only sign of oil is under the crank position sensor. No sign of any leaks above it, all dry to the touch so that spot of oil further up on the backing plate is still a mystery. Might have gotten oil on there when removing but can't remember doing that so am left a bit perplexed.

Picture is from when I started untightening the screw but I think the slight gap between the sensor metal baseplate was there with the screw fastened as well. Judging by the caked up area on the old engine block I think it's safe to assume that this is one of the leaks. I still have major doubts as to whether this alone would produce enough of a drip to leak as much as it did in the video. Definitely not the greatest design, could really benefit from being held in with two screws, one either side of the opening but what can you do. Not sure how to make it more secure other than using RTV. Not ideal but what else is there? Brand new sensor with a new O-ring and still looks to be leaking...

Feeling around back on the transmission side of the block, the area around the gallery plug was slightly damp to the touch and has a yellowish discoloration at the end of the opening but not a clear leak. I thoroughly cleaned the plug from the old sealant and seated it all the way in with white high-temp sealant. This is a bit of a tricky spot as originally it sat only slightly recessed from the flat area so would not have been threaded in all the way. Again though, even if it is leaking, I can't see it producing too steady a stream.

Only other thing I can speculate on is the oil pan being damaged? The bottom side looks a bit scuffed up so the previous owner must have bottomed out on something somewhere along the line. Pretty weird as the car did have the aluminium reinforcement plate installed when I got it so no idea how it could have picked up this sort of damage. Could this have somehow transferred the forces to the top edge and bent it out of shape somewhat? Unlikely but I'm just clutching at straws at this point. Then again, might be the machine shop's doing when having it washed.

Absolutely no clue at this point. The maximalist approach would be to get the engine out again, clean up the pan from the old engine and seat that on with a new oil pan gasket, new rear main seal housing with the seal pre-installed, new gallery plug with sealant pre-applied, new O-ring on the crank position sensor with a dab of RTV, new flywheel bolts with sealant pre-applied and go again. Basically throwing a bunch more money and effort at it. Not sure what mental state I'd find myself in if the issue were to persist after all that but honestly no idea what other options I have at this point anymore.

[Eagle 1662]

Has the oil been wiped away in that crankshaft sensor photo? Those o-rings hold the sensors in pretty well even without the bolt, you oil'd everything up im guessing when installing. You can generally reuse the new o-rings if they were lubed well.

If i was were me id locate stuffed auto transmission, cut the bell housing at the front so it turns into an adaptor plate or half an adapter plate, bolt it up then mount the flywheel and starter. At least then will have an idea of where to look before ripping it all apart. Should be able to see exactly what area it is without the transmission in the way. 

[Vass 831]

4 minutes ago, Eagle said:

Has the oil been wiped away in that crankshaft sensor photo? Those o-rings hold the sensors in pretty well even without the bolt, you oil'd everything up im guessing when installing. You can generally reuse the new o-rings if they were lubed well.

If i was were me id locate stuffed auto transmission, cut the bell housing at the front so it turns into an adaptor plate or half an adapter plate, bolt it up then mount the flywheel and starter. At least then will have an idea of where to look before ripping it all apart. Should be able to see exactly what area it is without the transmission in the way. 

Yeah there was more oil under the sensor before I dug in, I think it must have drained away from feeling around there and the engine tilting back and forth. There was definitely more of a pool under there before. I used a light coat of silicone paste on all the O-rings when installing. It doesn't look pinched and actually looking at the sensor itself, everything looks dry beyond the O-ring apart from the tip of the connector somehow...

That's an awesome idea with the bell housing. Unfortunately gave away the old auto transmission for free a few months ago to clear some space, would have been a good candidate. Will see what they charge at Pick-A-Part.

[Eagle 1662]

Could be a hairline crack in the plastic. I have a new OE VNE one if it's indeed one of the issues.

Some on facebook or wreckers may have a stuffed one. Pickup a part would have to sell you the whole box wouldn't they?

[Vass 831]

18 minutes ago, Eagle said:

Could be a hairline crack in the plastic. I have a new OE VNE one if it's indeed one of the issues.

Some on facebook or wreckers may have a stuffed one. Pickup a part would have to sell you the whole box wouldn't they?

Could be. I'll have a closer look. I think VDO were OE for these?

Yeah am asking around. Could have someone make up a plate for it but might be less hassle to cut the chunk off a bell housing instead. Might ask Pick-A-Part of I'd still be fine to cut one up there for a bit less as there's a few autos sitting in there that are unlikely to be of any use to anyone. Are the bell housings the same between 4 and 6 cylinder boxes do you know? Some E36 ones might be the same as well I think? Could broaden the search range a bit.

[Eagle 1662]

You are right, it is a Conti\VDO one from Spareto. Yeah a steel plate could work too but more work i agree. All M4X\M5X engines use the same bell housing pattern iirc, but someone else would know for sure. 

[Vass 831]

Got a lead on an old auto transmission that a dude in Ashburton is willing to give away. Might go for a drive tonight and pick it up. Should have just kept my old one  What do I even do with the rest of the transmission after cutting the bell housing off? Would a wrecker's take it for scrap?

Also started looking at getting a UV dye kit to make it more apparent. Small bottles available on Amazon and such for like $5, yet the cheapest one I found on these shores is somehow this dodgy sh*t. Anyone know of any more reasonably priced kits out there that don't involve a longer wait?

[aja540i 1906]

Take the rest of the trans to a scrap metal dealer, you should get a couple of bucks for it....

[Eagle 1662]

Scrap dealers will take it, i got $10 for my E39 one. 

Yeah i thought about that UV dye too,  haven't really heard of anyone using it in the NZ. With a leak like yours im not sure you will even need it with the transmission out.  

[Vass 831]

Score! Will take an angle grinder to it later this week.