Is each successive

[Kiwi_BMW 89]

Is each successive model of BMW getting less reliable and requiring maintenance that older models never needed doing?

I look at things like the E60 V8 valve stem seals, water transfer pipe etc and F10 headlight water ingress, V8 valve stem seals 

The quantity of oil usage that is now common.

While the technology is great, in some respects, it has become less reliable also.

An E30 and some others will be around for a long time yet, but will todays cars be around (and operational) for as long as the earlier models?

Are the manufacturers building in planned obsolescence, after all if they don't keep selling cars they go out of business. 

[aja540i 1896]

It is not just BMW, all ICE cars are getting more complex and fragile to meet ever tighter emission restrictions, so they won't last as long, meaning they need to be replaced sooner, thus saving the world !  

But i suspect there is also more of an element of built in lifespan as well, it is in everything else we buy so why not cars....

[Kiwi_BMW 89]

32 minutes ago, aja540i said:

It is not just BMW, all ICE cars are getting more complex and fragile to meet ever tighter emission restrictions, so they won't last as long, meaning they need to be replaced sooner, thus saving the world !  

But i suspect there is also more of an element of built in lifespan as well, it is in everything else we buy so why not cars....

I agree ICE vehicles are getting more complex and fragile, looking at the internals of some components they are more petite than an equivalent model 20 years ago, hence the reason why they are so fragile.

It probably doesn't matter to the first  owner as they buy new anyway, the people that it will affect with planned obsolescence is the used car buyer, many of them can't afford the expensive repair costs associated with some of the repairs, or the maintenance costs.

I'm sure the extended maintenance schedules are part of the problem when it comes to some of the early failures

[kwhelan 232]

not sure its planned obsolescence but strict laws causing compromises. Would they really use all that recycled plastic in water tanks and fittings if they didn't have to. plastic water pumps and fans, wtf is that bullshit, Fuel economies have caused lightening of every part in a vehicle which funnily because of all the new tech added the car ends up heavier than it ever was anyway. I remember reading a Porsche 928 ad when I was a young fan and they were boasting 41 electric motors back then, more weight,more speed means more hp required which means more stresses on everything, my old rx2 didn't need bigger tyres than 195 because it was light,e60 v8 sure needs bigger so thats more stresses all around constantly.

safety has added complexity, abs , cameras for lane detection etc, led lights sure they look cool but they arn't a case of unplugging a simple plug and changing a bulb

costs here as well, I think germans do a lot more maintenance on their bmws because parts are cheaper, only people doing suspension bushes here are ones that fail warrants but over there its just maintenance along with shocks etc. I think they expect owners to do that,eg  when you look at the new service schedules it includes things like full brake fluid changes, How many kiwis ever do that to their ride. At least bmws do supply parts for older models, you don't get that with alot of japanese brands

your stating the obvious really and thats the arguement of every v8 loving american muscle car lover

[nick496 268]

I don't think today's modern cars will still be around as much in 30 years as say the e30.

Mostly in part due to all the electronics that are in modern cars.
It's difficult to get replacement control modules for cars over 10 years old from the dealer, and with NZ having such an old fleet, you'd struggle to get something for your 14+ year old. 
I think if you're looking to hold onto a modern car you'd best start learning how to repair electronic boards.

[kwhelan 232]

same for everything though isn't it, washing machines for example, a few power glitches or damp circuit board and $900 to repair, didn't happen when you just turned a knob now they have digital screens and processors, mates newish fridge after a power cut while it was doing a defrost cycle "apparantly:, now blows the circuit breaker of the house, $600 fixed it though yay

[cleanish_e46 149]

21 hours ago, kwhelan said:

not sure its planned obsolescence but strict laws causing compromises. Would they really use all that recycled plastic in water tanks and fittings if they didn't have to. plastic water pumps and fans, wtf is that bullshit, Fuel economies have caused lightening of every part in a vehicle which funnily because of all the new tech added the car ends up heavier than it ever was anyway. I remember reading a Porsche 928 ad when I was a young fan and they were boasting 41 electric motors back then, more weight,more speed means more hp required which means more stresses on everything, my old rx2 didn't need bigger tyres than 195 because it was light,e60 v8 sure needs bigger so thats more stresses all around constantly.

safety has added complexity, abs , cameras for lane detection etc, led lights sure they look cool but they arn't a case of unplugging a simple plug and changing a bulb

costs here as well, I think germans do a lot more maintenance on their bmws because parts are cheaper, only people doing suspension bushes here are ones that fail warrants but over there its just maintenance along with shocks etc. I think they expect owners to do that,eg  when you look at the new service schedules it includes things like full brake fluid changes, How many kiwis ever do that to their ride. At least bmws do supply parts for older models, you don't get that with alot of japanese brands

your stating the obvious really and thats the arguement of every v8 loving american muscle car lover

“She’ll be right”, has never been uttered by a German. 

10 hours ago, nick496 said:

I don't think today's modern cars will still be around as much in 30 years as say the e30.

Mostly in part due to all the electronics that are in modern cars.
It's difficult to get replacement control modules for cars over 10 years old from the dealer, and with NZ having such an old fleet, you'd struggle to get something for your 14+ year old. 
I think if you're looking to hold onto a modern car you'd best start learning how to repair electronic boards.

I don’t think people are as inclined to keep them around.

Our inclination, mine at least, is nostalgic. The E30 is a good example, there were lots of them in the UK where I grew up. They were between sixteen and twenty-six years old when I was finishing school, more ‘old car’ than ‘classic car.’ 

They were well loved due to their BTCC pedigree and popularity on the nations roads, Frank Sytner had one, your grandad had one, and you wanted one.

Well, you could have one and they didn’t cost an arm and a leg, they were fun to drive and you could fix them with a knife and fork on your dads driveway.

That’s harder to do now so people aren’t getting the same experience, and it’s hard to get nostalgic about something you can’t remember because it didn’t happen. 

Edited March 8 by cleanish_e46
I can’t spell.

[kwhelan 232]

true, my sons went through those years where you built up a nostalgia because you lived and breathed cars with skylines, impressas etc whereas mine was rx3, bmw, ,mitsi gto's

kids now at that age seem to prefer lowered old jap utes so there is still a bit of passion there which I quite admire. they were crap vehicles new so it takes a bit of passion to bother with one now, funny the utes are around in bigger numbers and better condition  that impressas/skylines are

[Driftit 1945]

Mechanic shops in 20 years are going to be very strange places. Look forward to any work needing an electric engineers cert. 

[kwhelan 232]

10 hours ago, Driftit said:

Mechanic shops in 20 years are going to be very strange places. Look forward to any work needing an electric engineers cert. 

I was promised these back when I was a kid, mechanics need to up their game

[Driftit 1945]

I think Star Citizen is as close to that dream as we will get. It does have a BMW. The 300i. It doesn't have an N52. 

[Neil McCauley 248]

The Oppressor Mk II in GTA online is based on the BMW Hoverbike concept, so they've got a LOT of griefing to answer for 😂