Where your money goes

[*Glenn* 854]

Some facts and statistics about welfare benefits.

Domestic Purposes Benefit

A benefit for sole parents with children in their care.

97,000 currently receive DPB.

43,000 have a youngest child over six.

54,000 have youngest child under six.

8,500 are former teen parents with children over six.

Will be work testing 4,500 at any one time.

Government spend $1,530 million 2008/09 year.

Unemployment Benefit

A benefit for those temporarily unable to find work.

64,000 currently receive UB.

12,000 people currently on UB have received it for more than 1 year.

Government spend $586 million 2008/09 year.

Sickness Benefit

A benefit for those temporarily unable to work full-time because of illness, injury, or disability.

58,000 currently receive SB.

29,580 have been on SB for more than one year.

9,000 are already medically assessed as capable of some part-time work or light duties.

Government spend $613 million 2008/09 year.

Invalid's Benefit

A long-term benefit for those who are unlikely to be able to work in the next two years because of severe illness, injury, or disability.

85,000 currently receive IB.

No change for those with serious incapacity to work.

Government spend $1,260 million 2008/09 year.

[bellicose 9]

And your point is what Glenn?

[*Glenn* 854]

And your point is what Glenn?

This needs to be reduced... I'm all for the reforms that are being made

[bellicose 9]

Ever been unemployed and needed a benefit Glenn?

Well i have and believe me you get treated as a 2nd class citizen.

It's all well and good people sitting there saying 'Get a job or you get no benefit'. Where are these mythical jobs coming from?

You think the crime stat's are bad now....wait to see how it goes when people genuinely can't find work and get thier benefit stopped.

[*Glenn* 854]

I wasnt implying people dont deserve it.... but there are plenty of them "milking" the system

And I've never been unemployed since I was 12

Edited March 23, 2010 by *Glenn*

[cliffdunedin 8]

Ever been unemployed and needed a benefit Glenn?

Well i have and believe me you get treated as a 2nd class citizen.

It's all well and good people sitting there saying 'Get a job or you get no benefit'. Where are these mythical jobs coming from?

You think the crime stat's are bad now....wait to see how it goes when people genuinely can't find work and get thier benefit stopped.

In some ways i fully agree with the reform, particularly being tougher on "long term" benefit users and abusers.

When i came back from the UK at the end of 08 i had to go on a benefit for 5 months not because i was lazy. but that there was absolutly nothing out there! Some weeks i was sending 40-50 job applications and most i was not even hearing back about...if it were not for the benefit i would have been in some trouble!

So there are pros and cons to this reform, but the way i see it one year should be enough time to find work...if you want it that is!!

[twisted 45]

Ever been unemployed and needed a benefit Glenn?

Well i have and believe me you get treated as a 2nd class citizen.

It's all well and good people sitting there saying 'Get a job or you get no benefit'. Where are these mythical jobs coming from?

You think the crime stat's are bad now....wait to see how it goes when people genuinely can't find work and get thier benefit stopped.

1. Their benefit will only be stopped if they fail to LOOK for work.

2. I was on a sickness benefit for 9 months. I found a job washing dishes, and then as a cook. I did this for two years until i found a real job that paid me real money.

3. Where i grew up, going on a benefit was most definitely a lifestyle choice. Its these people the changes are targeted at.

Edited March 23, 2010 by -Alias-

[antil33t 90]

Invalid's Benefit

A long-term benefit for those who are unlikely to be able to work in the next two years because of severe illness, injury, or disability.

85,000 currently receive IB.

If it helps, I spent pretty much all of it on my car?

Edited March 23, 2010 by antil33t

[bellicose 9]

Where i grew up, going on a benefit was most definitely a lifestyle choice. Its these people the changes are targeted at.

I agree with the first part. But i think the thing 'bout targeting these people is it will hit everyone else. A bit to all encompasing, like trying to do precision target shooting with a shotgun.

[twisted 45]

I agree with the first part. But i think the thing 'bout targeting these people is it will hit everyone else. A bit to all encompasing, like trying to do precision target shooting with a shotgun.

I get what your saying, but sometimes a shotguns all thats available.

I like the changes as they send a very clear signal to current and (more importantly) - future recipients that the benefit is NOT a lifestyle choice.

Furthermore, those that actually do work will be able to earn more without it affecting their benefit. I'd say thats pretty win, wouldn't you?

[antil33t 90]

I can only earn like 100 bucks/wk before they take my benefit off me and I'll very likely never be allowed it again <.<

100bucks/wk isn't really enough these days... I can spend 50+ a week getting to class.

[bellicose 9]

I can only earn like 100 bucks/wk before they take my benefit off me and I'll very likely never be allowed it again <.<

100bucks/wk isn't really enough these days... I can spend 50+ a week getting to class.

That $100 is before tax.

[Wom 0]

I was on a benefit after I finished college.

I will admit that I was too lazy to find a job ... well it was more like I didn't want to work in a supermarket or mcd's.

After the 1st year of been on a benefit, I decided that I should study something to try to better myself and get a qualification.

I don't see any problem with the reforms they are talking about.

If you're on an unemployment benefit for more than a year and you haven't bothered to apply for any jobs, or haven't bothered to go to winz every few weeks and look at jobs online with them, or haven't bothered to go to the courses / job experience that winz provides, then yes you should have your benefit cut.

I appreciate that there aren't enough jobs for every single person in NZ, but that doesn't mean that you can't at least try to look for one.

In regards to the DPB ... my mum was on it until I was old enough to go to kindy.

Since kindy was only for the mornings, mum would work in the morning and pick me up after work / after kindy was finished for the day.

Once I started primary school, mum went back to work full time.

I don't see any reason why a solo mum or dad can't start looking for work once their children are at primary school.

I do think it would be very wrong to force any parents to work before their children are at primary school.

Again, it would only mean that they have to actively be looking for work, not just cut them off because they don't have a job.

Sickness beneficiaries ... mum fell into this category when I was about 10 years old.

She actually physically could not work.

All winz made her do is take a form to her doctor and get the doctor to complete it.

I don't see why this needs to change.

If a doctor is satisfied that a person cannot work due to health reasons, then that's fine, give them the sickness benefit.

But if the doctor reckons they can work, then the beneficiary should be moved onto the unemployment benefit.

If the beneficiary disagrees with the doctor's decision, then go get a 2nd opinion.

I know that it is hard living on a benefit.

I've been there and done that and it isn't fun.

Although I think it was actually worse living on the student allowance than the unemployment benefit.

If you can work and you don't put in the effort to look for work, then I don't see any reason why my tax money should fund your lazy nature.

[AN E30 Fan 1]

Concerning the Child Support,

My Mum was on it after my parents got divorced, 3 kids, My Mum hadn't worked since my parents married and l a 40 year old Woman that hadn't worked for 12 or 13 years found it hard to get back into working side of life however she got a job as a receptionist full time whilst studying Occupational Health at Uni. My Dad is a pilot so he wasn't around to help with us when my Mum need to go to work and go to lectures.

She was only on it while she was doing her degree and after that she quit her job as a receptionist and now is the health and safety manager for Auckland Meatworks. HUGE job but it made one hell of a difference getting the child support it allowed her find caregivers for us some of the time and the rest of the time my aunty looked after us. My Mum then invested in properties with the money she saved whilst working as the Health and Safety Manager.

Child Support made ALL the difference to my family and if it weren't for it, my Mum wouldn't have been able to put herself through Uni and set herself/my family up for a better life.

Edited March 23, 2010 by An E30 Fan

[Guest Ari Gold]

Being a student getting a benefit isn't quite the same as supporting a family on it, Michael.

On a sadder vein, my girlfriends mother has Cancer, and the particular cocktail of drugs that work best for her in fighting it, aren't funded by Farmac. She's had to give up her extremely well paying job at Canterbury University as her health declined, she's sold literally everything she's owned to stay alive including the Mercs and the houses, as it costs her $300 dollars a day just to live.

She's on the benefit as she cannot work regular hours due to her health swings being so rapid, but you can guarantee that every single cent goes toward keeping her alive. She works as a web designer when she can, and runs fun raisers and auctions as often as she can. Not every case is a bludger.

Edited March 23, 2010 by Ari Gold

[Wom 0]

I don't have a problem with child support.

My dad paid mum child support until I was 18.

We couldn't have survived without it.

I didn't think child support was being reviewed though?

[bravo 35]

Sympathise Sam,

the only reason my mother is here today is because we were fortunate to have several tens of thousands of dollars saved to do some house alterations which were able to be deferred to pay for chemo (It is prohibitively expensive if it's not on the approved pharmac list). No new house, but she's still with us.

Many not that fortunate.

Benefits seem to reward long-term bludgers and punish short-termers in dire need. Hard to get on it, long stand down, not really enough to live on (My g/f had $12 a week left after rent, power, groceries, and water when she was on it last year, and that had to pay for clothing, personal effects, and so on. Woefully inadequate.). But once you've been in the system long enough, you can get instant approvals, more grants, added benefits, and so on.

The system is definitely broken. Don't look to me for a solution though - I don't have one.

[kingkarl 136]

Sure, there are a HUGE number of people abusing the system.

But there are still a lot who genuinely need the benefit. I'd rather we had a system like ours where it was probably a little to easy to get the dole, than a place like the states where people who genuinely need it can't get it.

However I do support changes to have food vouchers given as a percentage of the dole so that the useless scumbags that spend all their cheque on fags and piss when their kids are starving are forced to provide for their dependents.

inb4 shitstorm

[huff3r 347]

What gets me is people that dont bother saving anything for "just in case" their job dissapears. They rely on the fact that if they lose their job, it'll all be sweet cos they can just get on the UB.

Buuut has anyone noticed that what the government spent is more than $1m per person on each benefit? Wish i got paid that much!!

Oh and one of my mates on the benefit managges to have an Xbox 360 and all the latest games, and booze for every weekend... lives it up... if i didnt live at home there'd be no way i could afford any of that with the job ive got! (Maybe i should quit and go on UB? )

Edited March 23, 2010 by huff3r

[kingkarl 136]

Buuut has anyone noticed that what the government spent is more than $1m per person on each benefit? Wish i got paid that much!!

I think you're maths are a bit out. Unless you're talking total spending on benefits since year X. In which case I'm the dumbass.

[Shady 0]

My Mrs is on the DPB. She has a 3year old and a 1year old - awesome boys they are (not mine though!) and the father doesnt care about them.

The amount she gets, is bugger all. Lucky if she has $25 left each week (this is to pay for personal effects & petrol etc) after paying Rent, Food (3 mouths, not 1) & putting $ aside for the Power bill when it arrives. Luckily her parents pay her phone so they can contact each other. WINZ hardly grant her anything (hasnt applied for food yet though), although one of my mates is constantly granted payouts for debts & other sh-t that he doesnt deserve, yet a Solo Mother with 2 boys has to literally beg to have help paying debts (debts on a car, baby utilities eg beds, cots, carseats, you name it), house furniture etc. But for a UB its easy, claim it you get it basically. DPB claims it, 3months later denied or accepted - usually denied or only an extra $5-$10 a week on your benefit which doesnt help much at all. Her plans are once the youngest is at kindy (oldest be there very soon) she is planning on finding a job.

So I reckon they need to sort this system out...the lowlifes need tobe kicked off, I dont care if they live in the streets, I'd rather them than my solo mother partner in the streets!

[*Glenn* 854]

Thats exactly what it is there for. To help those who have needs...not for those that want it to be a lifestyle. Some families are 3rd generation dole bludgers. People with needs, need more support & it should be given once assesed more quickly. And the genuine needy should be getting more than they now are getting

[Driftit 2078]

After not being able to find stable work for the last 4 months I am contemplating going onto the UB. Up until now I have been avoiding it by living off my credit card and doing odd jobs from mates etc. Really brings your self esteem down when you realise you have no choice until you find some work.

[Apex 693]

What do you do Dan??

[cliffdunedin 8]

Sure, there are a HUGE number of people abusing the system.

But there are still a lot who genuinely need the benefit. I'd rather we had a system like ours where it was probably a little to easy to get the dole, than a place like the states where people who genuinely need it can't get it.

However I do support changes to have food vouchers given as a percentage of the dole so that the useless scumbags that spend all their cheque on fags and piss when their kids are starving are forced to provide for their dependents.

inb4 shitstorm

+1