Altenzo Tyres

[BMWTouring 20]

I just put a set of 4 Altenzo Sports Comforter tyres on my work wagon (E91 320d Touring)

Is it just me or are they WAY below par in the wet??

I was coming back from Pauanui on Sunday and my god they were awful!! they just slid on turn in with no grip at all and the DSC was going constantly, this was driving very moderatly aswel!

I know they are cheap and nasty, but for the mileage i do and the way i drive it, Its hard to justify expensive tyres especially as the car could be changed tomorrow!

The Michelins that i took off with 1mm left were better in the wet!

Any body else with this opinion or am I expecting too much from cheap rubbish??

Edited December 8, 2011 by BMWTouring

[_ethrty-Andy_ 2132]

You can have all the electronic saftey systems in the world, but with the tyres being the only thing between the car and the real world, if they are sh*t, physics wins. Id be surprised if you get any better or even the same milage out of them.

[zenetti 0]

Hi Aidan

to be fair you are not really comparing apples with apples. We sell hundreds of the Altenzo tyres and we have not had any complaints. However , we do make sure people know that they are a touring tyre rather than a performance tyre like the Michelins, Conti's etc. If price is an issue for you then the Altenzo are probably the pick of the bunch.

Was it absolutley bucketing down or was it light rain? What pressure are you running in them?

(waits for Ron to wade in with his comments )

[BMWTouring 20]

Hi Aidan

to be fair you are not really comparing apples with apples. We sell hundreds of the Altenzo tyres and we have not had any complaints. However , we do make sure people know that they are a touring tyre rather than a performance tyre like the Michelins, Conti's etc. If price is an issue for you then the Altenzo are probably the pick of the bunch.

Was it absolutley bucketing down or was it light rain? What pressure are you running in them?

(waits for Ron to wade in with his comments )

I understand that, i run Pirelli Pzero's on my own car.

It wasnt bucketing down just light rain.

Running BMWs recommeded pressure.

I wasnt expecting the world from them, I drive new BMWs every day with Pirelli Michelin, Dunlop etc and know what tyres can do, and realise these are cheap tyres but they really were s***....

I took them off this morning and replaced them with Pirelli Pzero Runflats, Problem sorted.

Cheers.

[zenetti 0]

Gald to hear you got it sorted

[_ethrty-Andy_ 2132]

I have been to more than 450 serious car accidents and tyres with one or more of the above shortcomings have featured in the majority of them. Driving on the wrong side of the road (really dumb) features along with tyres, The two seem to go together for some reason?

Inappropriate speed is the primary factor in less than 10%

excuse me if it comes out the worng way but are/were you a cop? thats a lot of call outs

id rather be doing 140 in my e34 with no aids and bridgestone tyres than the same in my mates E46 with linglongs lol

[David 0]

I have put the Altenzo on my 330 motor sport that has a lot of suspension mods, and the only problem with them is a small vibration at speed when they are cold. Grip wise they are fine for a road car, even in the slush and snow, and as we are only supposed to be diong 100km/h I would have to put it on the track to compare them with what I had before & I have a race car for that, hence why I gave the Altenzo a go.

Previous Tyers were : Eagle F1, excelent but lasted 5 minutes and got very loud as the tread got down, and when I got the car it had Michelin Pilot Proceda, useliss in the wet and cost more than the car was worth.

[BM WORLD 1283]

one thing i noticed working in the wreckers is that not many of the cars coming in damaged have 4 good tyres on them.

most seam to have very bald tyres , or a mix of good and bad , brands or levels of tread etc.

so it pays to have good tyres.

on one of my cars i have had some cheap rubbish tyres (kingstar) and in the wet it will slide all over the place(i am changing them soon)

and on another one of my cars i have goodyear eagle F1's and the difference is huge in the levels of grip in the wet etc and the car doesn't even have very good suspension

[_ethrty-Andy_ 2132]

on one of my cars i have had some cheap rubbish tyres (kingstar) and in the wet it will slide all over the place(i am changing them soon)

i had those on my wagon/ in the wet, being rwd the slightest bit of throttle and the back would slip out. and its not like a m52b20 is powerfull... as well as steering being crap. even in the dry, it didnt like spirited driving...

I had them at taupo on the back just because i wanted to use the things up and the back was loose as, though admittedly they arent designed for that use..

[oscar90 0]

kingstars are the devil...see soooo many Evo's and STi's and stuff on them and all I can think of is "you've never actually driven that car the way it's ment to be because, if you had, you wouldnt have that sh*t on there"

Went and seriously looked at a M3 on a yard once...they'd put a new set of Kingstars on all round..tried to say 4 brand new tyres etc real good ya wont need to buy any for awhile blah blah...promptly told them i'd want the cost of a new set of tyres taken off the final deal!

I can't see why people skimp on tyres with performance cars/cars with power! you don't get the most out of the car and it's unsafe

[nath 134]

My e36 318 coupe came with kingstars which had fine tread but were ALL age damaged with serious cracks and finitely localised perish bulges on 2 of them. Went and got 4 new pirellis quick smart (and became very very poor).

Genuinely sh*t tyres.

[my_e36 43]

You get what you pay for in tyres.

In my daily, recently switched from Bridgestone AR10 to Maxxis some random model. Half the price, half the grip, half the confidence they gave me. I have to go round corners 25% less speed in the wet or they slide big time. That's when they are new with full tread, I can imagine it turns into custard at half tread.

[zenetti 0]

With no minimum standard we have:

- people driving on tyres way past their use by date - used imports & gone hard

- tyres unsuitable for the conditions - cheap sh*t and ones that don't work in the wet

- tyres unsuitable for the conditions - snow tyres in summer

- tyres unsuitable for the vehicle - S and T rated and snow tyres on high performance cars

- tyres unsuitable for the vehicle - Light Truck tyres on a mazda 121 or 88 load rated tyres on a 2 ton Ute

I have to agree with you here Ron. Our tyre standards are pretty much non-existent and the WOF guys that do the checking are not much better. In fact they are probably the most at fault. There are regulations now that state:

If you run winter tyres you must run 4 ( all though I do not understand why they are even legal here).

Tyres on the same axle must have the same load rating (+/- 2) and they must have the same speed rating. In addition to this vehicles post 2005 must have the same type of tread pattern (asymmetric, directional etc) on all corners.

However, the number of cars we see come through with new warrants that are in contradiction to those regulations is unbelievable . Just in the last week we have had people come in here where one tyre has been failed but the other tyre on the matching axle is actually worse. We have even had a BALD tyre pass compliance but it failed on a string repair. You have to blame the WOF guys for this, and assume they are either uneducated,being pushed to make monetary targets or just plain useless.?

What is really needed is a complete overhaul and an education programme, but we seem to have this fixation on speed and don't actuallly look at what causes the crashes.

People should buy the best tyre they can afford. In some cases they cannot afford a Pirelli or Conti unfortunately.

Stay in MANTROL everyone over the holidays

[hybrid 1043]

What is really needed is a complete overhaul and an education programme, but we seem to have this fixation on speed and don't actuallly look at what causes the crashes.

Amen to this!

I'm a big advocate for tyre education and true causes for crashes in cars (apart from the obvious idiot ones)

I would say a good 40-50% of cars out there are running substandard rubber. Im talking basic stuff here, not what is the best performance tyre.

#1 Old hard rubber

#2 Acceptible tread limits for the _weight_ of your vehicle.

And the rest you both have listed.

My wife has the mentality that the tread is fine and it passes a warrent so it must be fine.

*boils over*

The same can be said for shocks, bushes, rotor and pad wear and brake bias! :| all factors in a lot of accidents that just dont get looked at yet cause a lot of evasive action acceidents.

[zenetti 0]

You paint the broader picture well, legislation and compliance , WOF etc, all fit in the picture as well

BUT- you cannot then extrapolate this and say its all the fault of the WOF inspectors.

The Industry could set some standards , ban imported used tyres would be a good start , then follow it with the kingstars, linglongs and other nasties.

Government could ban snow tyres except during winter in mountain areas where they are intended to be used . They could also use one of the international standards as a minimum standard for new tyres but that would lose them votes so they wont.

I think you may have misinterpreted me - I am not saying it is all the fault of WOF inspectors. I am saying that is where a good part of the problem starts, especially when you see first hand tyres passing a WOF that really have no right to. Too many of the general public think because a tyre passes a WOF or Compliance then it is safe. Unfortunately this is not the case.

I agree re banning used imported tyres, there is some unbelievably bad stuff out there.

New imported tyres will never be banned. All tyres are now imported so how do you distinguish one brand from another? Some Dunlop are made in Indonesia, some Goodyear are made in China, even some Bridgestone nowadays. It is all well and good saying "but 'name brand' have their own factories in China. I have just been over there and there are a lot of newer tyre factories which are not a "name brand" that use machines that are actually newer than some of the name brand factories. I actually spent a couple of hours in Hong Kong airport talking to a German man who does the maintenance on his machines in China. It was a very interesting chat and he was of the opinion that the Chinese have learnt very quickly how to make a reasonable tyre.

Having imported Chinese tyres for the past 8 years, I have seen a huge leap forward in technology from where they were to now. I am not saying they are up to Pirelli standard for example, but they are not as bad as they used to be. Sure there are still some dodgy brands out there and unfortunately some unscrupulous people that import them just to make a buck.

Education is the answer and as I mentioned previously, until we get rid of this fixation that "speed kills" we are never going to move forward.

[Allanw 1071]

Follow so many people:

- braking through corners even UP HILL??

- No use of indicators,

- driving on the wrong side of the road even round blind corners,

- engaged in everything else BUT driving,

- doing 80 in 50 k area ,

- doing 50 on an open road,

- doing 3 point turns on a blind corner on an open road??

Yeah... and that's just the Police cars around here - The general public are even worse.

Nearly hit twice last week (they were both SUV's funnily enough!) and had to take evasive action - one was heavy brakes so I didn't T-bone one doing a U turn and one mounting a round a bout to miss someone who was stopped, but pulls out as I was in front of them.

I encounter someone over the centre line on my twisty drive home EVERY day, and honk at EVERY one of them.

Tards!

[zenetti 0]

The Industry could set some standards , ban imported used tyres would be a good start , then follow it with the kingstars, linglongs and other nasties.

I didn't make any comment about banning new import tyres - I made a comment about them meeting international standards, some of them mght even have the markings but arguably would not pass the real test.

the comments quoted above would suggest otherwise

[_ethrty-Andy_ 2132]

i just want to punch people that have no concept of saftey. i mentioned to my flatmate at the time that i got new tyres costing 250 each, he said wow cool mine were lik $69. then i notice a few days later ALL four corners had a different tyre on, and said he just got whatever was cheapest

the tyre shops like tonys and all that should be the people that are educating. how can a car with different tread and type on all four corners be safe? he does sh*t loads of milage and easily goes through a set of tyres or two between WOFs.

the reality is, 'that car' would have been able to go around 'that bend' quite happily at 130km/h had it had decent tyres on it. but because it had substandard tyres with different patterns in each corner and blown shocks (all items not checked in warrents), it fell into a ditch killing x amount of people. you can factor driver error and all the other excuses you like, but you dont see racing drivers attacking corners on $69 linglongs

[Neal 544]

These Altenzo share the same spec for grip and tyre as a Pirreli P6 (AA 320)

Grip is one A with AA being highest.

On paper they have more traction than the majority of Firestone tyres that NZ'ers love to put on there cars so they can't be that bad.

My own pref for road tyres is for AAA with 180-220 treadwear with bridgestone being the tyre of choice for the last 4 sets based on price / performance.

[BMWTouring 20]

These Altenzo share the same spec for grip and tyre as a Pirreli P6 (AA 320)

Grip is one A with AA being highest.

On paper they have more traction than the majority of Firestone tyres that NZ'ers love to put on there cars so they can't be that bad.

Trust me, ratings and reality is very different!! I can speak from experience in this case.

[_ethrty-Andy_ 2132]

i dont think a one size fits all approach is quite right. take for example a mid 90s corolla and an e32 750iL. both have 15" rims and run fairly similar sized widths. but a tyre that works on one is inappropriate for the other. you dont NEED $250 bridgestone potenza RE001 tyres on a 90kw corolla, but you need something a bit better than linglong on a vehicle with 300 or more horse behind it.

I was at a tyre shop today (wont name it) and actually asked them that question so i could contribute to this thread. 'would you be happy to sell a budget brand crap tyre to someone with a V8 merc?'. i was cautios to not say would you sell, as i knew that answer was yes as well. the reply i got was 'we are happy to meet the customers needs for price', and if they say they only want cheap tyres then thats all they will buy.

He also said that on average every 4th person through the shop just wants something cheap because they are selling the car. makes you wonder whether people are justifying it to themselves to buy crap. I have done it too but only if i had the genuine intention......

[zenetti 0]

"the comments quoted above would suggest otherwise"

Yes you could read it like that so I will clarify:

1) Used imports should be banned

2) Snow tyres should be Use specific and limited to winter

3) New tyres that do not meet ( i.e. pass not just have the markings) an international standard should be excluded, this should take care of the nasties like Linglong, Kingstar etc.

The Key comment was not the detail above but rather:

" The Industry could show some leadership and self regulation and establish an acceptable minimum standard of product". This could include any or all of the above, the first being those dodgy used imports which would also eliminate quite a few of the snow tyres.

That makes more sense

Andy, you are right with your one size does not fit all comemnts, and it is a battle we continually have here. My guys here have been trained to ask a few key questions first like "what vehicle do you have?, How do you drive your car? what do you have on currently? Are you happy with your current trye?"

Then you begin to give them some informed choice rather than just sell what you have in stock.

However, I would say at least half of the time, a custy will ask "have you got anything cheaper?" Unfortunately the guy you spoke to at Tyre Shop X is right, you do have to meet their budget, and if you don't they will go and buy somewhere else.

It can be a bit of a vicious circle, because if you do your best to sell them a suitable tyre for their vehicle and then they decide to run with the budget tyres the tyre shop ends up getting blamed for selling crap tyres!

[DRTDVL 0]

I got some lovely cheapies from Johno for my 406. It's basically sitting in traffic or cruising on the motorway. I know it's wet weather performance isn't as good as some brand xyz that i would use as road tyres on the 205 or for Andrea's 307 at three times the price, as it doesn't need them for the type of driving the car does.

BUT because i know they aren't the worlds most amazing tyre i compensate when it's wet with slightly longer following distances and a bit more caution coming into corners - especially those i know to be slippery.

[nath 134]

Good theory but it just does not work in practice. it assumes you have some control over the circumstances, that may be the case sometimes but not always.

It's the low ball argument again - I am only going to the shops, I wont go over 50 k so I am fine -- check the stats and the anecdotal comments in this thread - lots of cars with crap tyres in teh wreckers , why is that ?

Crap tyres and a wrecked car are both inter-twined with each other along with no wof, no rego, no insurance, reckless driving and I dare say socio- economic status. It's a moot point really.

[DRTDVL 0]

Ron,

The biggest difference between the GT Radials that the car came with, the Bridgestones i put on it originally, and the cheapies i put on it last time is the wet weather braking performance where the cheapies take a little less for the ABS to kick-in (minimal amount less). In the dry there was no noticeable difference.

The biggest fault i have with the CAR in the wet is that the braking system is very quick to throw the ABS system on and actually causes more issues with emergency stopping than compound of the rubber that was on the car at the time. There is a perfect example of this when going down Nelson street in the wet where there is a metal plate in one of the lanes and without fail the ABS system kicks in when you touch this plate and effectively lets the car freewheel unbraked over the plate regardless of the tyres on it. (http://g.co/maps/mcpnw)

I would argue that it comes down to many other things than just the tyres on the car that caused the car to be written off. I have a complete hatred for the NZ Driver License system where people are allowed to drive yet they do not have the skills / knowledge to properly drive - this is to me is a much much larger issue than me driving around on cheaper rubber in my 89hp (0 - 100kph in 13 seconds) slug. I'm not going to say I'm an amazing driver, but i like to think I'm competent - i adjust my driving to the conditions and the car I'm driving, I've pulled over and waited for conditions to change, had a nap when sleepy, etc.. before continuing my trips.

Typically i would say that cheaper cars tend to run the cheaper tyres, the wreck / repair for insurance companies would be heavily skewed to the wreck thus seeing more cars with cheaper tyres in wreckers.

Ron - I guess the question would be if my cheapie tyres arn't suitable to my task of toodling around at or below the speedlimit, never driven remotely quickly, never loaded heavily, etc... what would you recommend? What should i be looking at as the base level commuter tyre in my completely non-performance orientated car that spends 80% of it's life sitting in Auckland traffic at less than 40kph?

Edited December 14, 2011 by DRTDVL