Confirmed the F30 M3 is a straight 6!

[Apex 693]

Interesting.

Despite the next M3 sedan being at least 1.5 to 2 years away, we now know the following. It will be:

Lighter than current M3

Faster than current M3

More powerful than current M3

More efficient than current M3

Powered by an inline 6 cylinder [turbo] engine

Offered with optional or standard manual transmission (if previous spy photos are any indication)

Introduced no earlier than late 2013 - early 2014

http://www.f30post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=694375

I just hope they do a touring this time... a M3 Touring would be my dream daily.

[Apex 693]

Also hear BMW have put a patent forward for a 7 Speed Manual, a proper manual with a clutch pedal, so not DSG crap like all the other top dogs.

[swordfish 30]

You've just made my day!!! Line six BMW is legendary. I will start working hard now, so I could buy it in 5 years lol

[CamB 48]

Sounds not far off a 1M then. I wonder if they'll build it to rev (and commensurately big turbo). Potentially yes, if its going to have more power than current M3.

I'm not entirely sure why the hate on the DSGs. I'm in two minds on them these days (I drive one every day). They have good moments. They feature on exotic cars.... but .... not on a GT3 (my personal (dream) benchmark).

In my humblest of opinions, a 7 speed shift it yourself manual on a turbo car is an odd, odd choice. Almost missing the point. One could argue 5 speeds is enough for most turbos.

Edited June 14, 2012 by CamB

[M5V8 337]

Sounds not far off a 1M then. I wonder if they'll build it to rev (and commensurately big turbo). Potentially yes, if its going to have more power than current M3.

I'm not entirely sure why the hate on the DSGs. I'm in two minds on them these days (I drive one every day). They have good moments. They feature on exotic cars.... but .... not on a GT3 (my personal (dream) benchmark).

In my humblest of opinions, a 7 speed shift it yourself manual on a turbo car is an odd, odd choice. Almost missing the point. One could argue 5 speeds is enough for most turbos.

Amen. Completely agree.

5 gears isn't enough these days to get the best of both worlds (acceleration vs open road cruising)

Having both a 5 & 6 Speeder I'm constantly wishing for 1 more long gear in my 5 speed.

7 would be too many and risk mischanges. 7 is fine for auto / DSG "paddle shifters" but not proper gearboxes.

Edited June 14, 2012 by M5V8

[kinetik 4]

I'm not entirely sure why the hate on the DSGs. I'm in two minds on them these days (I drive one every day). They have good moments. They feature on exotic cars.... but .... not on a GT3 (my personal (dream) benchmark).

Rumour has it that the next GT3 with be PDK only: http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/scoop/ne...-gt3-get-450bhp

[CamB 48]

Well will you look at that. Unfortunately its quite beguiling for the manufacturers, as they offer ridiculously fast (and repeatable) acceleration. My VW one is 100x more awesome than me at upshifts and downshifts. Not so much fun though.

[Greg111 13]

It's not DSG, DSG is a dog of a box, it's a double clutch gearbox DKG, works completely different and is very good!

I'm now not going to read any articles on this subject as only a few months ago it was confirmed to be a V6 twin turbo.

Different story everywhere you go so i'm done reading about it, no one at BMW knows anything on them.

Will wait till I can see and drive one.

[Apex 693]

My race car is a 2.0ltr Turbo with a 6-Speed and its geared to do about 270kph, seeing 200kph is about as fast as I go (we are limited but that is quite fast on a back road) it is actually over geared, having 6 gears geared to do 210 and a seventh as an overdrive would be awesome and keep the car in its peak torque range when on it.

Also, a friend has a 1M and he has commented that its geared a bit short, BMW have chosen to compromise fuel economy and emissions and have geared it for optimum performance instead so an obvious and possible solution is to keep it as it is but add another cog as an overdrive to lower consumption but still retain performance, it would probably help with over all emissions also, i think you will find emissions regulations are a major reason for a lot of companies fitting DSG.

I would sooner they invest the money in a 7 speed conventional manual than only offer a automatic DSG like Audi have done on the new RS4.

Good on you BMW, looking for out of the box solutions in the pursuit of building the ultimate driving machine.

IMHO etc.

[Apex 693]

Not that big a deal, would be awesome!!

[deeveus 81]

I guess the first 5-6 gears would be for hooning with, then the 7th gear would enable the car to use less fuel due to lower RPM on the opens roads?

[Apex 693]

I think someone mentioned that above but yes, that is the idea and not a bad one, even with a broad torque spread in my car when racing I often run out of third gear and wish fourth was somewhere in between third and where it is now for optimum speed out of corners.

[_ethrty-Andy_ 2132]

Lighter than current M3

Faster than current M3

More powerful than current M3

More efficient than current M3

I just hope they do a touring this time... a M3 Touring would be my dream daily.

Didnt we already know all that?

M3 Touring would be very cool. plenty of people around that have converted previous generations, dont think i have seen an E90 though?

[antil33t 90]

Just drop an 18 speed eaton-fuller in it.

[Apex 693]

Didnt we already know all that?

M3 Touring would be very cool. plenty of people around that have converted previous generations, dont think i have seen an E90 though?

Just for you

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=492494

[Allanw 1071]

I think 7 manual gears would confuse a lot of people... have you not seen how many already can't drive?

It'd be better with a 2 speed transfer box or diff! Racing and Cruising!

Taller gearing doesn't necesarily equate to better fuel consumption. Most consumption gains from gearing are because you have a better choice of gear, instead of labouring in one, or revving it's nuts off in another You can select a suitable gear and use part throttle.

The efficiency of the engine for a given HP requirement is what determines the fuel consumption and the revs that equilibrium is reached is different for different engines. A particular design of engine with a 60 HP load at 4000 rpm may be just as efficient as another engine design with a 60 HP load requirement doing 2000 rpm.However, the first engine with the same load may use 25% MORE fuel at 2000 RPM - this is often true of smaller engines which struggle to maintain the required HP output at low RPMs.

Most road tuned cars have roughly the same efficiency from about 2000 to 4000 at a FIXED hp requirement (such as the power required to move a particular car through the air at a fixed speed), then above and below the efficiency drops. Using 5th in town can actually increase consumption over 4th gear.

I have seen graphs for a NA Subaru engine on an engine dyno, where the load is constant, the fuel consumption is roughly the same from 2000 to 4000, then climbs either side. That was the 2.2 SOHC motor, which was the benchmark for midrange torque in it's day (it was a 1996 engine I believe). Subaru even stated it in the owner manual of the time - 2000 to 4000 was the best range for efficiency for that car.

As engine revs climb, each combustion cycle can produce less power and still keep the same HP level, so less fuel is required each cycle and each cycle can be run leaner as a result. At low rpms, timing is retarded more, and fuel richness is increased, to prevent pre-ignition and detonation. so if a more HP is required at low RPM, the engine is struggling more and is running less efficiently. Conversely, as revs climb, a lean burn results in more heat, and running rich helps to overcome the problems associated with this, so most manufacturers insure themselves by upping the mixture a bit and lose some economy.

I'd imagine crunchy does that (could be wrong though): generally tune for ultimate power, then richen up the top end for safety and lose a bit of power (for street cars anyway - not those with big wallets and a speed fetish!)

The gearing has to be matched to the particular car, but even the 1M mentioned above may not have sacrificed any fuel consumption in the gearing (not having a go or anything - just an example). It could actually be better because of it.

[CamB 48]

Graham - you need a shorter diff and taller 1st / 2nd and probably 3rd. Proper ratios not road car ratios.

For a road car, 6 gears with top gear being a genuine overdrive should be enough.

Greg - what's wrong with DSG? Its two clutches. "D" is rubbish, especially on my car, as it changes gear with fuel economy in mind but that's hardly the boxes fault. I mean I am sure the Porsche PDK is way better, but so it should be given the price difference.

Geez, I am sounding like an automated manual fanboy - I am far from it, but they are better than I expected.

[deeveus 81]

Taller gearing doesn't necesarily equate to better fuel consumption. Most consumption gains from gearing are because you have a better choice of gear, instead of labouring in one, or revving it's nuts off in another You can select a suitable gear and use part throttle.

My 07 GTS commodore had a constant readout of fuel consumption, it would sit under 1500rpm at 100kms in 6th gear and steadily return 9 per 100km constantly, if I was in 4th or 5th it used a lot more than that!

Would a Shimano 18 speed be any better?

Edited June 15, 2012 by The Diesel Guy

[E30 325i Rag-Top 2957]

The eight speed sports auto in the new F30 is a nice box, IMHO, 1st to 6th are pretty close for good acceleration, then the 7th and 8th are "over-drive" type ratios to improve the economy when cruising. It doesn't change up and down all over the place as you might expect either, plus there is a manual mode for when you want to have a bit of a hoon.

Getting back to the original post, I am surprised by the quoted source of the information, quoting that kind of information before the official release date is a rather large no-no, especially for a fairly senior exec.

Whatever the engine configuration, gearbox, size, weight, power, etc. two things are certain about the new M3 / M4 models 1) it will be a masterpiece 2) I will want one

[Allanw 1071]

My 07 GTS commodore had a constant readout of fuel consumption, it would sit under 1500rpm at 100kms in 6th gear and steadily return 9 per 100km constantly, if I was in 4th or 5th it used a lot more than that!

Would a Shimano 18 speed be any better?

Yeah, but it's a Holden. 'nuff said As the revs climb, it clearly become less efficient

[Greg111 13]

Yeah, but it's a Holden. 'nuff said As the revs climb, it clearly become less efficient

But still kept going and going, I love a good two valves per cylinder pushrod V8! So effortless.

[kiwi535 538]

the 120d could do with an overall drop in ratio bringand all the gears slightly closer.Its overgeared for NZ be awesome if we had 120 130 k speed limits.I dont ussually change into 6th until 110k

I thought the dsg sounded quite good auto convenience and manual efficiency/control(ie always locked up)

Edited June 16, 2012 by kiwi535

[Allanw 1071]

the 120d could do with an overall drop in ratio bringand all the gears slightly closer.Its overgeared for NZ be awesome if we had 120 130 k speed limits.I dont ussually change into 6th until 110k

I thought the dsg sounded quite good auto convenience and manual efficiency/control(ie always locked up)

It's funny how the euros are mostly doing dsg type setups, and the japs are more into CVTs

[kiwi535 538]

It's funny how the euros are mostly doing dsg type setups, and the japs are more into CVTs

nissans have "stepped" cvts???

[Allanw 1071]

nissans have "stepped" cvts???

Yeah... there's a few makers with them... I'm not sure why though - I guess it's supposed to make it feel like an auto.

I'm still a manual fan though. It just feels right, and makes you think about driving. I've always said that if you can't drive a manual (excluding physical disabilities), you shouldn't be driving. If you aren't co-ordinated enough to operate a clutch, how can you be coordinated enough to brake, turn, look, indicate, accelerate, judge, adjust and avoid at the required times