diesel, the truth

[kiwi535 538]

My name is Paul and i am a diesel convert.I finally sat down today and worked out the actual cost of running a diesel

so for 10000 k say in one year for a 2005 manual 120d

rego 417.39

ruc 537.80

diesel at 151.9 =865.83( a 5.7 l per 100 k per rightcar or whatever they call it)

total 1821.02

for a 2005 manual 120i

rego 287.54

petrol (lets say 91 for the argument ) 1626.75(@7.5 l per 100k per rightcar)

total 1914.29

not much difference .

In my experience the diesel has been ok to service,only oil changes so far at about 17k intervals,i do good runs of about 25k each way not much stop start.I guess at some point i will have to do a particulate filter or something.

the figures are based on me buying 10000k ruc at a time.each time you buy you pay a $7 transaction fee.

So on the face of it a diesel is HALF to run day to day but the ruc and higher reg put pay to that.Still got the excellent range and torque of at last a 3l petrol engine.cons is the smell of the stuff and sluggish take offs.I think the real world consumption of a 120i would be a bit more than the published figure as is my 6.5l 100k

[Tristan 338]

Mum was spending $200+/wk in the ML500.

Since getting the X5 30d it's a fraction of the cost.

[Driftracewake 22]

I think you all missed a crucial number in this calculation. The diesels are more expensive to buy in the first place.

Our x5 fits the framework above, 10k per year etc. An equivalent spec diesel E53 would have been 10k more to buy in the first place 22k vs 32k for a facelift, NZ new, 2004 model with high spec, full service history and approx 120ks on the clock..

We drive only short trips around Auckland and our economy is not as bad as quoted above around 16l per 100ks.

When we sell it in 2 years or so it will have 150ks, be worth about 16k (looking at comparative 2001-2002 models) So we lost 6k in depreciation, a diesel would be worth around 22k by the same logic. So we would have lost $10k.

I think I'll stick with my V8....

Edited September 29, 2013 by Driftracewake

[E30 325i Rag-Top 2915]

I'm not sure I am following your argument here Dan. Used diesels are more expensive, as there is more demand, and less supply so therefore higher used car prices.

The price when you sell a diesel will also be higher for the same reason above. Depreciation should be less as well, as the perceived life-span of a diesel is higher than a petrol and higer km's is not seen as such an issue.

Towing is where a diesel really comes into it's own, not only from the much better economy whilst towing, but also the driveability.

Horses for courses though, but it is funny there are diesel and petrol fan-boys. It's almost as bad as iPhone v Galaxy!!

[lord_jagganath 421]

^ don't you mean Android, Jon? :3

Struggling between an e60 diesel and petrol at the moment. the petrol is 14k and the diesel is 19k. the diesel has done more miles too! but i sit in traffic more often than i do drive. My understanding of diesels is that it burns less idling than petrols, so I reckon diesels would be better in traffic. that alone is worth the extra ruc and rego costs

[Driftracewake 22]

Sorry it was badly worded, made more sense in my head!

If I was a buying a new BMW X5 today I would buy a diesel. I run a 2013 Ford Ranger diesel everyday, (50ks p.a) and I understand the payoff.

However for a second hand BMW the argument is different, especially if your not doing much mileage.

We brought the wife's 2004 E53 X5 V8 for $22k. The equivalent diesel would be 32k, not so much because of higher demand, but I would suggest because of shorter supply. In 2004 diesels weren't very "fashionable" and most people (rightly or wrongly) brought petrol X5s.

Whilst I agree diesels have slightly lower depreciation rates in percentages, let's use dollars and cents, because higher value vehicles lose more $$$ in depreciation than cheaper vehicles. And at the end of the day, you bank dollars, not percentages.

For resale figures I used the preface lift e53 models currently for sale, they are 3 years older and therefore a good idea what my car will be worth in 3 years. a2001 petrol V8 X5 sportpac with 150ks is worth around $16k today, and a diesel version around 22k. Therefore if I owned a diesel it would cost me $10k in depreciation in 3 years and the petrol one would have cost me $6k. So there's a $4k saving alone. Add in the fact that it's not used more than 15kms a year, the petrol version is cheaper to own. I haven't even factored in the money saved by throwing the spare $10k on the mortgage

The sums work for a a lot of the early diesel cars. The premium they command (because they aren't as common) is not worth it unless your planning to do at least 25-30ks a year.

Another prime example, my E60 545i Motorsport was 10k cheaper than the comparative 530d model and a whopping 17k cheaper than the 535d model. Again it will do less than 20ks a year, so the decision to buy a v8 was an easy one. Bit of a shame because a remapped 535d would have been lovely indeed...

However, it's different kettle of fish with the new generations of diesels. The E70 diesel models for example, barely command any price premium at all over their petrol brothers, because there's so many diesels on the market. For this reason, when we do upgrade to an E70 it will most likely be a diesel.

Edited September 30, 2013 by Driftracewake

[kwhelan 232]

If you are buying new, Diesel would be ok but 2nd hand you just don't know enough about the previous owner,Diesels are way way more untolerant of neglected oil and filter changes, A second hand diesel could be a virtual minefield of very expensive repair bills,unless you know what your looking for

You also havn't factored in the service costs of all those filter changes, there seem to be more to change and at much more frequent mileages

[Phil-540i 166]

Personally, the service costs around the same, as running vehicles out to 15-20,000kms between services, is just 'dreaming' - I do lots of highway, open road running, yet still service every 10,000kms, even on new vehicles under warrenty when they say 15,000kms is ok.
Oil & filters are cheap (long term), irrespective of fuel type.

while the late model CRD motors being so good over various operating conditions, a lot of the petrol choices are no longer there to the extent that they were anyway, bar on entry, sport, or premium models.

My partner drives a Mazda 6 as her 'wheels', & dresses up for her job in town. She will always own a petrol for the simple reason of her not wanting to reek of diesel / get diesel on her hands after a truckie has used a pump etc. Myself, I don't get a choice, as my ute only comes with diesel motor (its got more grunt than a wild pig anyway, so I'm happy as!!).

All each to their own stuff in some ways, but also very basic at some levels of looking at things...

[Driftracewake 22]

Clearly you got a good deal 2 years ago Ron, or they haven't depreciated much since (which I can also believe). Although it's hard to put a price on manual models as they are rare on the market.

My pricing is based purely on what we brought ours for 5 months ago, we watched the market for around 3 months before jumping in, we paid 22k, it's a v8, facelift, sportpac, NZ new 120ks, black leather, PDC, hill descent control, heated front and rear seats, service history, no pano roof unfortunately!. My friend brought a similar specced diesel in black for 31500 the next month. As you said only 30% of e53s were diesel, so they are in shorter supply than petrols as well.

As we both said, newer models won't suffer the same price disparity as the majority of the e70 models are diesels.

[gjm 3194]

We all know I didn't pay much for my car, so that is inconsequential. I have spent a fair bit on it, making sure things are as they should be, but I cannot say if the related costs would be different had I bought a secondhand petrol-engined car.

Current distance travelled is around 250km per day.

Fuel consumption is around 16km per litre (I paid 142.9c per litre this morning). For comparison, petrol would be around 10km per litre (at - say - 204.9c per litre).

If I travel 240 days per year (arbitrary number), I'll cover 60000km. That's 3750 litres, $5360 + $3180 RUC. Call it $8500

In a petrol-engined car, I would use 6000 litres of fuel, costing $12300.

If I had a petrol-engined car that would return the same economy as the diesel, it would be cheaper by around $800. But I don't. In fact (and in my scenario), a petrol-engined car will have to average 14km per litre for it to be equally viable.

[Allanw 1051]

A petrol car getting 10kms/L on the open road is pretty hungry.

I have done 14.29kms/L in the E39 (Whangarei to Warkworth, gently, but at the speed limit and only me in the car), but more normal is about 12.35, with the 4 of us, heading from Whangarei up to BOI, Kerikeri etc.

Around town (Whangarei - not really heavy traffic ) I get 10.9kms/L..... my Wife only manages 8.9kms/L, but doesn't drive faster than me - she seems to have an on/off pedal, not a throttle!

I'm sure the manual helps a lot too.

[qube 3568]

When I drove my 330 I used to get 550-600L per tank but gf only got 400-450. Women drivers... Hehe

[deeveus 81]

I think you all missed a crucial number in this calculation. The diesels are more expensive to buy in the first place.

All relative though really, as in theory you should get your cash back come time to sell.

[isis 16]

I traded in an e53 petrol for E70 X5 diesel a couple of years ago and haven't looked back.

We dont do 20ks a year, more like 10ks and fill up every 3 weeks. I dont even bother hunting for the cheapie petrol because its ridiculously cheap to tank up.

It was painful with the e53 as it around $200 to fill and i'd be lucky to get 600ks out of a tank. i would have bought a diesel one if it all of them weren't poverty specs!

Diesel power torque is ridiculous and somehow i now enjoy the sound of the chatter! Definitely a convert - permanently! i do however wish the newer X5 would be prettier!

[kiwi535 538]

I traded in an e53 petrol for E70 X5 diesel a couple of years ago and haven't looked back.

We dont do 20ks a year, more like 10ks and fill up every 3 weeks. I dont even bother hunting for the cheapie petrol because its ridiculously cheap to tank up.

It was painful with the e53 as it around $200 to fill and i'd be lucky to get 600ks out of a tank. i would have bought a diesel one if it all of them weren't poverty specs!

Diesel power torque is ridiculous and somehow i now enjoy the sound of the chatter! Definitely a convert - permanently! i do however wish the newer X5 would be prettier!

Dont drive an X5 5.0d then,thats even more ridiculous!