More Dog and Lemon bullshit

[lord_jagganath 421]

http://nz.news.yahoo.com/a/-/top-stories/19660240/deathtrap-vehicles-banned-in-aust-promoted-in-nz/

When was the last time you saw the cars mentioned in the list in an accident?

And for some vehicles, ESC is known to be more dangerous for the driver.

Edited November 3, 2013 by The Juggernaut

[C-130 Hercules 556]

C'mon - seriously? Defenders would hence be banned from sale in Australia?! That's just not right...

[lord_jagganath 421]

you know, on that token, half of us would be driving death traps

[Tristan 338]

"Quite simply, innocent people are sure to die unnecessarily as a result of this madness. The government has blood on its hands."

Lol? Extreme much.

[Apex 693]

Is there no accounting for the driver anymore? I mean people drove for over 100 years before stability control was even an option on high end cars and now all of a sudden its dangerous for a car not to have it?

Lets just hope they don't make it illegal to have an OFF switch.

[Phil-540i 166]

IMO, this guy is consistently a muppet given the crap he comes out with. The bit I find amazing is how the media runs to him like he's the 'guru of car knowledge'...........

I can't stand him - he's an oxygen thief with no credibility as far as I'm concerned........

ESC is a curse in lots of situations, particularly with commercial / 4WD vehicles. You can chuck all the electronic crap ya like in any vehicle, but theres never any substitute IMO for a competent skilled alert driver that consistently makes great decisions while driving.....

ESC etc kicking in, is when the vehicle itself is telling you 'You've exceeding your skill limits as a driver, you're too stupid to be doing this, & I'm now taking over to try to save your a$$'.

Part of the trouble with the new electronic advancements / enhancements is that people are now 'relying' on it, forgetting that the normal laws of physics involving momentum, inertia, & gravity still apply......

[Apex 693]

Interesting view point.

IMHO Its not about the cars at all, most modern cars handle well if driven properly, tyre technology, increased stiffness of chassis and advances in suspension makes this so. Its about the drivers.

I am all for stability control, they do work and to say they don't is just ignorant, the modern ones are especially clever, I have been sat in the passenger seat of my old E60 when the driver was not paying attention and tried to take a 65kph corner at 100Kph, the car understeered wide onto the wrong side of the road where the stability control kicked in, at the same time the driver tried to counter correct and the stability control stopped the car from tank slapping back the other way, if the car did not have the stability control we would have under steered off the road and tested the secondary safety systems!

My response was In regards to the "people are going to die" comment mad by captain douche bag, I would personally just like to see some credit or responsibility given back to the operator of the vehicle is all, to say people are going to die because the car has no systems is just stupid PC nanny state bullshit.

[Apex 693]

IMO, this guy is consistently a muppet given the crap he comes out with. The bit I find amazing is how the media runs to him like he's the 'guru of car knowledge'...........

I can't stand him - he's an oxygen thief with no credibility as far as I'm concerned........

Agree with this, the guy is a f**king hack, your average car enthusiast knew more about cars than this guy at the age of 10, it will be purely because he is not affiliated with other media outlets like Herald etc, I would be interested to hear the opinion of a proper motoring journalist on the matter.

[liyi_92 37]

I thought every car in the Dog & Lemon was a "death trap", "money pit", "extremely unreliable" except of the Corollas which were OKAY if I remembered it right. Personally I think anything from D&L is utter rubbish.

[euroriffic 603]

I just remember this quote for the the e36, and probably all bmws " if you can't afford to buy one new, you can't afford to buy one second hand" followed by "avoid like the plague!"

Biggest a**hole ever!

[lord_jagganath 421]

^ I made a mistake of buying a Carjam report for a 159 diesel a few months ago. Turns out that line of his is a favourite for every luxury, french, and Italian car.

[Apex 693]

He is like a property valuer. They look at one house on one street and then generalize the whole streets value and then work out updated value's based on houses recently sold in the area. Anyone can do it, its money for jam, most of the time they don't even have to leave their desk to make $500.

His guide is only useful for soulless people who have never seen a car before.

Must say though, most of us are as guilty as him when it comes to generalizing brands, especially those of witch we have never actually used, I know from years of driving all sorts of Euro cars.

[lord_jagganath 421]

^ but we would be punished hard for making such sweeping assumptions . ..

this guy seems to be getting a free pass!

I have a made a formal complaint with carjam. I am sure if many more people do the same, we'd not see his work on that site.

[Apex 693]

Car jam wont care, they are too busy jamming your money!

Best you can do is stalk forums for a balanced view on potential models, join a Alfa forum and ask people what goes wrong, you will generally get a lot of response and members will let you know what to expect. I don't trust the opinion of anyone who has had less than first hand ownership experience anymore.

[Phil-540i 166]

^^^^^ True that............and nicely put really. CMW & his boyfriend probably have a detuned Prius as their family car..........

Edited November 4, 2013 by Blue-540i

[lord_jagganath 421]

Bayerische Motoren Werke AG came into being in 1918, but did not use those famous initials until 1936.

P o s t- World War II austerity led BMW to concentrate on m o t o r c y cles. BMW d a m n e d near w ent b e l l y – u p in the mid

1950s.

B M W returned to fame in the

early 1960s and hasn’t really looked back since.

However, as the famed America car cynic Phil Edmonston once said of BMW: “These cars come with a repu- tation that far exceeds what they actually deliver.”

It’s not merely that BMWs aren’t as good as they used to be, either. Brands like Lexus have raised the goalposts; these days, the best of Japan is often far better than the best of Germany. Sorry.

The independent British consumer group Which? publishes an annual reli- ability index, based on br eakdo wns, faults and niggles that occur in cars owned b y its members. In a recent survey, BMW came 16th out of 39 makes. Almost all the top vehicles were from Japan or Korea. BMW did even worse in a recent survey by the highly respected American Con- sumer Reports organisation, which rated BMW as 26th out of t he 3 3 makes sur- veyed.

N e w BMWs are bad enough; old ones are diaboli- cal. If you are foolish enough to buy an old or high–

mileage BMW, then you’d better arrange a second mortgage on the house to pay for repairs. Repairs will be expensive beyond your worst nightmares and in- creasingly frequent as the car ages. Gentle reader, you have been warned.

If you have your heart set on a BMW, then buy a low-mileage model less than

5 years old. The original owner will have taken the biggest blow in terms of depreciation, and a car of this vintage will hopefully provide several years of luxu- rious motoring at something approaching a reasonable price. Just don’t say we didn’t warn you •

Makes me think he was a terrible mechanic.

Edited November 4, 2013 by The Juggernaut

[Phil-540i 166]

Generally he's fairly much hated by any-one that's had anything to do with any vehicle that isn't a Corolla, or those that haven't got 'hair-dresser' as a profession..........(bit like what Gareth Morgan is to the finance / banking industry at times IMO - both seem to love publicity anyway).

Like, we're talking about some-one here that, as a 'bright idea, in the realms of safety' apparently retrofitted airbags to his Morris Oxford years ago.......

Whereas me, in order to make the world a better, safer place, woulda stuck a rag in the fuel filler, lit it, & then roasted marshmellows on the P.O.S..........

Kiwibiker forum, had a guy there referring to CMW as '2 fathers', which cracked me up.......

Edited November 4, 2013 by Blue-540i

[nath 129]

He drives, or drove until recently an Austin Cambridge with mismatched panels.

[Apex 693]

Makes me think he was a terrible mechanic.

But what he says is true though, you cant argue with that. I would not recommend an old European car to anyone unless they are an enthusiast.

He judges a vehicle purely on reliability and safety and does not account for street cred and driving enjoyment, he writes these publications for non car enthusiasts.

There is no real need to get upset when he puts down a brand, its not personal and to be honest I would sooner a family member take advice from his book than a car dealer.

I just think he is a douche bag because he doesn't work hard enough and simply rehashes the same old crap and his books are full of mistakes.

[hybrid 1039]

Basically this can all be summed up in one sentence. "Electronic Stability Control is a free pass for bad suspension design and tire choice"

Apply that to the problem and the true nature of the problem comes to light.

[lord_jagganath 421]

^ bound to be problematic when these systems could possibly start failing in the future.

[Apex 693]

Graham, in regard to your comment about "most modern cars handle well if driven properly"

I would agree with this if we were talking about modern well engineered cars , like Volkswagen, your Renault etc. and that's where the difference is:

Numerically there are far more lower than average cars newish on the road and these do not handle as well as some "average cars" from 10 years ago.

I would much rather take a 2 litre 1995 corona around taupo than a 2012 2 litre Hyundai, the corona would simply trash the Hyundai for handling and performance.

Having "sledged and drifted" a very late model Hyundai on the open road at 60kmh where I would normally drive at 80 to 90 kmh with the kids in the car I have absolutely NO respect for these under-engineered price driven cars that make up the vast numbers of cars in NZ and primarily in company fleets- which links into the original comment about what the Aussies are trying to orchestrate

Maybe you should slow down?

Basically this can all be summed up in one sentence. "Electronic Stability Control is a free pass for bad suspension design and tire choice"

Apply that to the problem and the true nature of the problem comes to light.

I disagree, there are no new cars that are worse than their 10 yea old equivalent, its driver aids giving a free pass for bad drivers more like.

I would post a challenge even. I will drive a Hyundai I-Load van on a back road and you see if you can keep with it in a modest medium sized sedan from the 90's.

[Phil-540i 166]

Maybe you should slow down?

I disagree, there are no new cars that are worse than their 10 yea old equivalent, its driver aids giving a free pass for bad drivers more like.

I would post a challenge even. I will drive a Hyundai I-Load van on a back road and you see if you can keep with it in a modest medium sized sedan from the 90's.

'Free pass for bad drivers' - exactly!! Poor drivers, with a lack of skills that then make poor judgements..........and no amount of electronic bullshit installed in any vehicle is ever going to compensate for that IMO............

That's part of the reason that people then can't make the distinction that maybe some P.O.S Hyundai, aint gonna handle conditions the same as what their 'normal' vehicle probably would............

[Phil-540i 166]

^ bound to be problematic when these systems could possibly start failing in the future.

Ahhh no, cos once any of those queer little lights on the dash glow continuously, warning you as a driver that theres a 'fault within a electronic system', the vehicle is then only to be driven at low speed (or flat-bedded') back to the dealership............

Imagine a world then, with no electronic 'safety' devices in any vehicle. Imagine no seatbelts. We've now got no airbags. Imagine if you had to spend the first 2 years getting a drivers licence, riding a motor-bike. Imagine a 6 inch spike in the middle of your steering wheel. Imagine that instead of being told 'how safe' your car is, Government & NZTA actually spent a bit of time telling ya they're actually fairly dangerous things to operate...........Imagine the cyclist that you've just cut up / cut off etc, having a gun..........

Thinking about all that, how much 'better' a driver would you instantly become?? How much more defensive would your actions be with your own driving?? How much better would the chances be of your 'getting home' after driving........???

Edited November 4, 2013 by Blue-540i

[Apex 693]

I like your thinking. People would drive even slower with an even greater fear of driving.

Most of New Zealands fleet are old cars so most of our drivers are still driving around in non "aided" mediocre cars with marginal safety levels anyway. It will be another 10 years before the average catches up, most people still think a car from the year 2000 is modern.

I am still thank full for stability control and feel safe in the thought most of my loved ones cars are equipped with it.