And now it's Holdens turn

[*Glenn* 854]

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11168063

[Phil-540i 166]

I think somewhat sadly, it was always going to be a case of who was going to 'pull the pin' first, & once one had made the commitment to going, its inevitable that the other will pack it in too......

Personally, I think its a real shame, & it'll be a big loss & have big impacts on us & the Aussies, well into the future years.

[Palazzo 477]

I think it's a huge shame. I love my Turbo Falcon and think it's massive value for money, for what I wanted it for a, V8 Commodore was also on the list. Having driven it for a while now, why anyone would rather drive a slow, roly poly SUV is beyond me.

[gjm 3258]

It's GM all over though. Travel the globe, buy interesting car companies, and close them down. Look at Saab - post GM buyout, they were stripped of intellectual property, suffered near-total lack of investment, and were then closed.

Of course, being Holden there may not be much intellectual property...

Seriously though, it is a great shame. Ford's cessation of rear wheel drive production was a nail in the coffin of motoring enthusiasts. This is really very bad news.

[Phil-540i 166]

Certainly in Holden's case, & to a similar extent also Ford - the small / midsize cars that they are now peddling off here are just character-less pieces of crap IMO.............I wouldn't pi$$ on one to warm up its wheels..........if I was in the market I'd go get a Swift Sport or a Mazda instead........

[Ahmedsinc 414]

Yes, all just rebadged Daewoo, Isuzu etc. Certainly a shame about the Commodore though. I started losing interest in the standard models (outside of HSV) from the VE platform. Great looking car outside, but pretty tacky in. The new one resembles a Camry with an aftermarket bodykit.

Being one of the last mainstream manufacturers still using the front engine/rear drive platform it's a real blow to motoring enthusiasts. I'm sure I won't be the only one sad about this latest, although not unexpected, development. Will leave the Au govt in a real spot when 50,000 extra bodies start lining up for the dole

[E30 325i Rag-Top 2956]

Holden are in a much better position than Ford as they contribute globally to GM, engines to Mexico, cars into N America and Rwd design centre.

That said, nothing is for ever and can change quickly in the auto industry. My bet would be that it is a bit of manipulation by GM so that the Govt. Enquiry decides it is better to give Holden $$$s rather than pay 50,000 more benefits.

[gjm 3258]

That said, nothing is for ever and can change quickly in the auto industry. My bet would be that it is a bit of manipulation by GM so that the Govt. Enquiry decides it is better to give Holden $$$s rather than pay 50,000 more benefits.

And if they come to that conclusion, they are probably right.

Paying someone to be unemployed is often more expensive than actually paying them to do something useful. Getting the unemployed to do something can sometimes be a real challenge, though.

[Phil-540i 166]

And if they come to that conclusion, they are probably right.

Paying someone to be unemployed is often more expensive than actually paying them to do something useful. Getting the unemployed to do something can sometimes be a real challenge, though.

Yea, lols, true all that.............ditto what Matt / Jon said............

Edited December 6, 2013 by Blue-540i

[yng_750 247]

aussie need to look at why asian car makers are spending massive amounts of money setting up manufacturing plants in england and other european countries yet everyone is running from oz.

The fact that the employment law in aussie is designed to pay the least skilled laziest employee lots doesnt work, this is why the big companies in the USA went under.

they would be naive to believe its impossible to compete with the wages of asia

Edited December 6, 2013 by jason H

[elmarco 56]

Holden are in a much better position than Ford as they contribute globally to GM, engines to Mexico, cars into N America and Rwd design centre.

That said, nothing is for ever and can change quickly in the auto industry. My bet would be that it is a bit of manipulation by GM so that the Govt. Enquiry decides it is better to give Holden $$$s rather than pay 50,000 more benefits.

My thoughts exactly. Contractual jousting.....

[hybrid 1043]

As much as i'm not a fan of their build quality and engineering .. they really serve a purpose and it will be a shame, but yeah .. people have more or less moved on.

But then a lot can be said about other car brands too.

Its a shame for sure.

[Phil-540i 166]

I'm left wondering what Ford owners will now tie their boats to in the future...............

[Apex 693]

As much as i'm not a fan of their build quality and engineering .. they really serve a purpose and it will be a shame, but yeah .. people have more or less moved on.

But then a lot can be said about other car brands too.

Its a shame for sure.

Agree its a shame. Like you say, people and more importantly companies who buy them have moved on.

They were great cars a few years ago but are making less and less sense every year, gas prices are going up the competition is building lighter and more efficient cars that drive well for a lot cheaper.

They needed to go to smaller body Commodore with a turbo 4 cylinder turbo and a diesel option, this would would have kept fleet sales up.

Build quality is not bad either, they are very reliable cars.

Edited December 6, 2013 by apex

[E30 325i Rag-Top 2956]

What you are saying about the smaller 4-cylinder turbo cars makes 100% sense, and most people would think that is the way to go. However, sales of the new Falcon with the new EcoBoost engine have bombed in Australia, and I believe in NZ as well. It seems the car buying public still have an issue with a "small" engine in a big car. The same can be seen in NZ with BMWs like the 520i, good car, drives great - but is still seen as needing a bigger engine.

The economy of the car is usually off-set by the amount the companies back the bigger engines on the fleet deals - it used to be MUCH cheaper to lease an XR6 or XR6 Turbo than a billy-basic XT over a three year lease period. As for diesel, neither Ford AU or Holden have access to a half decent engine unfortunately - try driving a diesel Captiva or Territory.

So, yes the reliance on building a single "large" model car is a dangerous position to be in over the long-term. Personally I really hope they keep the plant alive, and invest some real money to bring it up to world-class standards. Once it's gone, it's gone forever!

[lord_jagganath 421]

RIP the great OZ RWD.

[deeveus 81]

I'm still yet to read that Holden are actually confirming they are shutting down operations...

Agree its a shame. Like you say, people and more importantly companies who buy them have moved on. They were great cars a few years ago but are making less and less sense every year, gas prices are going up the competition is building lighter and more efficient cars that drive well for a lot cheaper. They needed to go to smaller body Commodore with a turbo 4 cylinder turbo and a diesel option, this would would have kept fleet sales up. Build quality is not bad either, they are very reliable cars.

There's the Cruze for that application. The whole point of buying a Commodore is the room that they offer & the power. Take a look at the Failcon Ecoboost, they've been a bit of a flop for Ford.

Edited December 9, 2013 by The Diesel Guy

[E30 325i Rag-Top 2956]

Yup, just checked the sales figures - the EcoBoost is being outsold 10:1 by the XR6 on its own! The market still hasn't got around the stigma of a 4-cylinder engine in a large car.

But yes, still to be confirmed, and being strongly denied by the State Government.

[deeveus 81]

Yup, just checked the sales figures - the EcoBoost is being outsold 10:1 by the XR6 on its own! The market still hasn't got around the stigma of a 4-cylinder engine in a large car.

But yes, still to be confirmed, and being strongly denied by the State Government.

It's probably not a bad car but I agree a 2 litre in a car that size must have it's limitations in the reliability department, that & the fact that people that buy these big cars are after performance & space at the same time, not that I'd personally call a bog standard Failcon/Commodore a performance car.

[lord_jagganath 421]

^ I must say though, the turbo 4-pot in a S.E.A spec F10 528i is AWESOME

[richard 384]

we're talking $100m in the sh*t here, not much in the big picture , and oz being and unionised work force , top management will hang it out for the Ausie government to fix.

[Palazzo 477]

It's probably not a bad car but I agree a 2 litre in a car that size must have it's limitations in the reliability department, that & the fact that people that buy these big cars are after performance & space at the same time, not that I'd personally call a bog standard Failcon/Commodore a performance car.

An Eco boost Falcon is tested at 6.8 for 0-100, an E39 540i at 6.4, better hope they don't get a good start.

Power and torque are supposedly identical for the 528i too. I can't see why it shouldn't be reliable.

[deeveus 81]

we're talking $100m in the sh*t here, not much in the big picture , and oz being and unionised work force , top management will hang it out for the Ausie government to fix.

I'm not sure the govt would be interested as they spent millions bailing Ford out for it to only fall over a few years afterward, which shouldn't have happened. Ford have more money than a bull can sh*t, they should have bailed out their own subsidiary company, not have innocent Australians picking up the tab.

[Phil-540i 166]

True that^^^^^^ particularly when taken into context with Ford ended up being the only one of the 'big 3', that didn't take US Government bail-out / prop up funding a couple of years ago, & then used that to their marketing advantage........

[Apex 693]

I wonder what the Police will drive going forward, as it stands they are probably Holden New Zealands biggest customers, followed by rental car companies.

You still see a fair whack of new Commodores on the road, its hard to believe they are in trouble really.