E36 328i Remap or Chip?

[MoJoJoe 46]

Anybody have exprience with Hi-Velocity or know how much they charge for a tune/remap? I heard its nearly around $500 ~ $800? Is that true? In that case I may rather get a chip to work out a remap for the small lower end torque loss from the M50 manifold.

I might be heading down to Auckland later next month after I hopefully finish the work on my car and fix the problems. I am thinking to get a remap or a chip. I am not sure if a chip is possible for the 328i? I heard they can not be chipped? Does anybody know how much $$ I am looking to spend to get a simple tune/remap done for my cars NA motor, it will have some exhaust, intake and manifold work.

[kingkarl 136]

Why not pick up the phone and hear it from the horses mouth?

Would be quicker than posting here

[MoJoJoe 46]

I think it was around a grand for the fiest time, (over my budget) and a few hundread for next ones in the future.

i wonder if I can send him my ecu and hed tune it for me to run the m50 manifold right.

ps: is a chip possible on these cars? and in that case which one should i get if anyone makes them in nz?

Edited March 29, 2014 by MoJoJoe

[thorburn 120]

Chip is possible. There was a wise chap who posted here. He removed the old chip soldered in a socket for a new chip and reprogrammed(think it was a Siemens ecu). 1000 for a remap is a decent price. A lot less mucking around then any other method.

[MoJoJoe 46]

I am just not sure I can afford to dish out another $1000 to have it remapped. So if a chip can be had for a few hundread dollars

My cars production date is 1995-10-05. I can solder, and can use a desolder/solder sucker if I can get a chip/have to solder in a new chip for running my small mods as M50 manifold.

[BM WORLD 1258]

its a postage stamp type IC in the seimiens ecu's , so you need special gear to do them ,

have used gavin many times for remapping etc

does a good job , call him to discuss options and prices , i think you will find its less than $1k but better to talk to him.

you can also do reflashing etc but not as good as live dyno tunning etc .

and most off the shelve chips wont be much good either , tuned for what fuel quality and what wear in the engine or engine mods etc??

just make sure everything is spot on in your engine first , no vac leaks , good spark plugs , filters etc etc

just for reference , std 325i and 328i manuals make about 112kw at the wheels ,

328i with m50 325i make about 124-126rwkw before tunning etc

i think the 328i with remap and manifold swap will make upto about 130-132rwkw

[MoJoJoe 46]

just for reference , std 325i and 328i manuals make about 112kw at the wheels ,

328i with m50 325i make about 124-126rwkw before tunning etc

i think the 328i with remap and manifold swap will make upto about 130-132rwkw

No offence but do they really they make around 112kw at the wheels? I find that hard to believe as I have read they make around 170rwhp stock so thats around 127rwkw? and usually these motors keep the numbers over the years aslong as they are well maintained. I saw some dyno sheets in US and UK forums that show them making 190whp from a intake, exhaust and the m50 manifold.

Those IC's could be a pain to remove with my basic tools, I wonder if gavin can simply take my ECU and flash it, if its cheaper that way, since hes got a lot of remaps stored, I will call him and find out in a few days. Just a good running M52 engine with a moddel airbox, m50 manifold, exhaust with cat etc delete and possible clutch fan delete. will be adding some spark plugs, gaskets, filter and oil. not looking to take this project too far althoug that was what I initially planned. I kind of live around the ideal twisty mountains roads and am happy with it as it is.

Edited March 30, 2014 by MoJoJoe

[_ethrty-Andy_ 2122]

No offence but do they really they make around 112kw at the wheels? I find that hard to believe as I have read they make around 170rwhp stock so thats around 127rwkw? and usually these motors keep the numbers over the years aslong as they are well maintained. I saw some dyno sheets in US and UK forums that show them making 190whp from a intake, exhaust and the m50 manifold.

Those IC's could be a pain to remove with my basic tools, I wonder if gavin can simply take my ECU and flash it, if its cheaper that way, since hes got a lot of remaps stored, I will call him and find out in a few days. Just a good running M52 engine with a moddel airbox, m50 manifold, exhaust with cat etc delete and possible clutch fan delete. will be adding some spark plugs, gaskets, filter and oil. not looking to take this project too far althoug that was what I initially planned. I kind of live around the ideal twisty mountains roads and am happy with it as it is.

numbers on the internet arent much to go buy. when new, and using specific mods in a controlled environment they are comparable, but we have different fuel, different wear, even different oil and air pressure etc, there are too many variables. a retune can only be a good thing, and up to $1k to do it seems reasonable to me.

[BM WORLD 1258]

No offence but do they really they make around 112kw at the wheels? I find that hard to believe as I have read they make around 170rwhp stock so thats around 127rwkw? and usually these motors keep the numbers over the years aslong as they are well maintained. I saw some dyno sheets in US and UK forums that show them making 190whp from a intake, exhaust and the m50 manifold.

Those IC's could be a pain to remove with my basic tools, I wonder if gavin can simply take my ECU and flash it, if its cheaper that way, since hes got a lot of remaps stored, I will call him and find out in a few days. Just a good running M52 engine with a moddel airbox, m50 manifold, exhaust with cat etc delete and possible clutch fan delete. will be adding some spark plugs, gaskets, filter and oil. not looking to take this project too far althoug that was what I initially planned. I kind of live around the ideal twisty mountains roads and am happy with it as it is.

different dyno types etc will give different readings . these are readings that i have and from mates cars on gavin's dyno .

my 325i had 200k's on it and my 328i had 100k's on it both 3.15 diffs

my mates 328i with m50 manifold has 150k's 3.64 diff

all where manuals with lightish flywheels

autos will be a bit lower in rwkw

its only numbers anyway .

if you want proformance , go for manual conversion first with diff to suit you.

[BM WORLD 1258]

142 kw at the flywheel translates to 134 at the rear wheels assuming 20% loss in a manual drive train ( which is a std rule of thumb)

Autos are typically 25 to 30% depending on type and quality so that's 106kw if you are lucky or less than 100kw if not.

126 kw at the rear wheels from a stock engine is about 10% loss which is what you would expect from a chain driven motorcycle not a car.

My manual 328 hotted up with exhaust etc. is doing just over 134kW at the rear wheels.

Can't remember if you have done the M50 manifold , but this is another Internet myth it's a total mismatch with the M52 engine and only robs you of useful midrange torque and means you have rev your car about 500RPM higher across the range to make the same power

what dyno type setup was it?? do you have pics of the graph etc

my results are from cars i know are good and all done on the same dyno type etc.

for comparrison same dyno again e34 535i 118rwkw e28 535i 126rwkw , e36 3L m3 160-165rwkw e28 m5 160-165rwkw e34 540i v8 auto 150rwkw

328i e36 with m50 manifold and 4.5psi supercharger 152rwkw(not remapped)

[Eagle 1524]

Manual conversion is the first and best performance mod.

[MoJoJoe 46]

Thanks, I think the US Dyno systems are different then our NZ ones, even counting in the other factors I dont these engines losing that kind of power if well maintained over the years. Even with Auto I dont see how more than 15% - 20% loss of power in drive train can happen. the car should have 193HP at the flywheel which after a 15% loss is around 165 - 170rwhp so thats around 125kw. Anyway, at the end of the day these are only numbers I am not really intrested in them that much, the car feels good and fast enough and I like it for what it is. I will do the M50 manifold swap since I have everything here and the fact that I think the old one is leaking. I wonder if the torque loss is a myth or actually noticeable??

@ eagle a manual conversion is too much hassle + price of getting it done from a shop, it doesn't bother me much, If i wanted manual I would had started off with a manual one instead, but those are hard to come across in good condtion and shape.

As for my mods, I have installed a 3.64 lsd with new oil, is that better or worse than a 3.15 lsd? I Was going to get the exhaust cat deleted and a remus installedi n place with a few other mods like the M50 done this week before i ran into these problems.

So back on topic. I'll see if I can get a chip done otherwise I will get Gavin to remap it for me. I have too much on my plate right now.so first l I must fix things up and get the oil leaks and any vaccume leaks sorted out,

Ps: speaking of chips, what are my options as of now? any chips off the shelf to run with my m50 manifold, searching the forum didn't bring out much.

Edited March 30, 2014 by MoJoJoe

[BM WORLD 1258]

Thanks, I think the US Dyno systems are different then our NZ ones, even counting in the other factors I dont these engines losing that kind of power if well maintained over the years. Even with Auto I dont see how more than 15% - 20% loss of power in drive train can happen. the car should have 193HP at the flywheel which after a 15% loss is around 165 - 170rwhp so thats around 125kw. Anyway, at the end of the day these are only numbers I am not really intrested in them that much, the car feels good and fast enough and I like it for what it is. I will do the M50 manifold swap since I have everything here and the fact that I think the old one is leaking. I wonder if the torque loss is a myth or actually noticeable??

@ eagle a manual conversion is too much hassle + price of getting it done from a shop, it doesn't bother me much, If i wanted manual I would had started off with a manual one instead, but those are hard to come across in good condtion and shape.

As for my mods, I have installed a 3.64 lsd with new oil, is that better or worse than a 3.15 lsd? I Was going to get the exhaust cat deleted and a remus installedi n place with a few other mods like the M50 done this week before i ran into these problems.

So back on topic. I'll see if I can get a chip done otherwise I will get Gavin to remap it for me. I have too much on my plate right now.so first l I must fix things up and get the oil leaks and any vaccume leaks sorted out,

Ps: speaking of chips, what are my options as of now? any chips off the shelf to run with my m50 manifold, searching the forum didn't bring out much.

no too hard to swap the chips as they are a postage stamp type , most crowds do a reflash , which is a bit of guess or known programmes that might work untill you get it right with dyno runs after each reflash etc.,

as opposed to running with emulator programme which can be tunned live while on the dyno

[MoJoJoe 46]

no too hard to swap the chips as they are a postage stamp type , most crowds do a reflash , which is a bit of guess or known programmes that might work untill you get it right with dyno runs after each reflash etc.,

as opposed to running with emulator programme which can be tunned live while on the dyno

I dont mind, a chip will be better then running nothing I guess. I just want to better out the engine output and overall regain (some) of the torque and hp loss at lower end/lower revs i hear you get from doing the m50 manifold.

Where can I get a Chip in NZ and from whom? I want to leave gavin @ hi velocity if I really mod my engine with cams and other stuff.

[BM WORLD 1258]

I dont mind, a chip will be better then running nothing I guess. I just want to better out the engine output and overall regain (some) of the torque and hp loss at lower end/lower revs i hear you get from doing the m50 manifold.

Where can I get a Chip in NZ and from whom? I want to leave gavin @ hi velocity if I really mod my engine with cams and other stuff.

they are not a do it yourself chip swap , thats why they not about , what gavin does is gives the ecu to a electronics place they carefully remove the postage stamp type surface mount chip , solder in a plug in socket so you then can fit in a programable plug in chip etc

[westy 614]

Thanks, I think the US Dyno systems are different then our NZ ones,

No, they just like to dick swing with inflated numbers.

All of this is and no manual is a waste of time anyway.

[MoJoJoe 46]

No, they just like to dick swing with inflated numbers.

All of this is and no manual is a waste of time anyway.

thats what I was thinking aswell.

i have them at hand so though I'd do it. I will just do the gaskets and spark plugs and regular maintenence + the manifold and call it a day then, no chips, no tune, no nothing, and just let the obd 2 adjust itself the best it can. the auto should still respond to the mods just not as well utilized as a manual. Dont want to shell out to convert to a manual at the moment. maybe later on will have ray @ hell bm do it for me.

[westy 614]

The manifold on an auto is a backward step imo.

[HaNs 226]

E36 328's are diagnostic port flashable, no need to burn new chips and socket the ecu

[MoJoJoe 46]

+ 1 with westies' comments

and in respect to the losses through transmissions systems, it's pretty simple

Most efficient engine direct to wheel (penny farthing)

Next most efficient derailleur type chain drive (10 speed bike)

Gear boxes etc. have higher losses due to mass , friction and a few others - why do you think they put oil coolers on gearboxes and diffs?? heat is lost power.

Its basic mechanical engineering and physics - you can find it in any engineering text published since about 1550 A.D

The Greeks knew about it but their work hasn't survived.

You can read what you like but facts , science and engineering are what count at the end of the day not some unsubstantiated crap off the internet

Brent, thanks for the comment about the install of a socket via Gavin, might re-investigate this option.

And the M50 manifold on a 328 is a seriously backwards engineering , even worse with an auto as per Westie.

look friend, why are you being so defensive all of a sudden? I am not denying it. I agree with you & westy. Its Basic Science & Physics. Energy Lost in Friction/Transferring Power = Heat. Did I say that was not the case? I was just speculative of your numbers (hp output of these cars lost) in rwkw, it sounded a little bit off since all I have seen were US dynos. But that would make sense if the us dynos are inflating the numbers to keep customers coming. Anyway, I was just curious to know, numbers aren't that important to me, I am sure in the right condtion/situation/remap/manual the m50 manifold would make noticable a difference, specially in track condtions.

The previous owner included the m50 manifold and hardware when I bought the car. I am taking off my current one apart for vacuume/oil leaks so might as well install the m50 and see. Most of the info I came across was from US forums where people swear by it. I can reverse it if I dont like it. I am just learning my car, Topic was about just to learn of options in regards to a chip or remap to regain the torque loss in the low end. I dont see how your reaction was called for.

Also is your Greek remark meant to racially tease me somehow? As if we dont?

Edited March 31, 2014 by MoJoJoe

[kingkarl 136]

Cheers to another crappy ditchboy thread which promised little... and delivered even less

[MoJoJoe 46]

Cheers to another crappy ditchboy thread which promised little... and delivered even less

I asked for information about chips or remaps, their availability and recommendations, to make best out of my car and regain some lost torque ( if possible) if I do a m50 manifold. I didnt come here to debate on numbers, manuals, automatics, elementary physics and crayons. What were you expecting me to deliver, a pair of balls? at least I can afford to buy another one if I ditch it and pay the repair bills too out of my own pocket! so up yours karl and your 525i land boat.

But I was told that everything on the internet is true? I'm pretty sure it is.

It is! he's just lying. ....he probably had a bad day so hes here to push his weight and take it out on me. but I gotta run..

@westy can we close this topic please, think its run its course and now going to turn into a useless troll fest. I found my answer, I am not gonna chip or remap anything unless I go manual. I will try the m50 manifold mod just to try out the myth.

Edited March 31, 2014 by MoJoJoe

[jeffbebe 1559]

Save your money and fix the car first.