E36 328i front control arms

[Mad_Max 233]

So, went for a warrant today, passed everything except both front lower ball joints, which is to be expected given the age of the car.

The question I have, is it worth trying to replace just the ball joint, or am I better off replacing the whole arm? I have heard the joints can be replaced, but it involves a 20 tonne shop press (which I don't have), so it may be easier just to replace the whole lower arm.

And if I'm replacing the whole arm, is there an upgrade of sorts that can be done? If I'm going to the cost of replacing the whole arm, I'll be doing all the bushes etc, and eventually the car will be getting dropped at least 1 to 1.5 inches lower, so ideally an arm suited for that would be best. Any suggestions on possible options?

[Mad_Max 233]

Thanks Ron, it's the outer bushes I think, have to double check tomorrow. I decided after posting that to get off my arse and go and have a look, my outers are the ones that clip in so easy enough to change..... but now I'm thinking, if I'm going to do that, I may as well go OTT and change all the bushes and everything as well, rebuild the front end, given the way I drive this thing it'll only be a matter of time before more stuff starts failing hahaha.

[_ethrty-Andy_ 2136]

there is only two bushes in the front to replace, and simple to replace at a later date.

I have some good second hand arms here off a 328 done 130,000km if needed.

otherwise if you want to buy new, around $450ish including shipping and GST from Pelican in the US

[Mad_Max 233]

there is only two bushes in the front to replace, and simple to replace at a later date.

I have some good second hand arms here off a 328 done 130,000km if needed.

otherwise if you want to buy new, around $450ish including shipping and GST from Pelican in the US

Thanks Andy, I'll have to confirm which ball joints they are talking about - report just says the front lower ones, the inspector said he was getting sideways movement from them but I just had a look and can't get any movement from the outer joints, so he might've meant the inner ones - if so I'll be in touch re getting the arms.

[Herbmiester 936]

Try SAS suspension for a price, my e36 arms off them were only about 140 each from memory.

[Mad_Max 233]

Thanks John, will figure out what's what and give them a call, $140 each isn't a bad price at all.

[zero 1162]

I think oem is around $150 per side, and you can order the hd versions which have stronger steel on the ball joint which increase their life and aid steering feel.

Definitely worth doing control arm bushes while you are in there, and possibly tie rod ends too.

Don't forget a wheel alignment when its all done.

[Mad_Max 233]

I think oem is around $150 per side, and you can order the hd versions which have stronger steel on the ball joint which increase their life and aid steering feel.

Definitely worth doing control arm bushes while you are in there, and possibly tie rod ends too.

Don't forget a wheel alignment when its all done.

Yes that's what I'm thinking too, do the whole lot once and do it right.

Posts are a bit confusing ,

There are two ball joints on each arm , outer & inner; and a control arm bush ( at the rear of the arm) .

The outer ball joint can be easily replaced - Use an HD one.

The control arm bush can be replaced with any of the numerous aftermarket offset urethane bushes ( or OE M3 ones which are stiff and relatively cheap) , this increases caster from about 4 degrees to about 5.5 which improves the front end significantly. and suits the power of the 328 better than the soft set up.

You MUST use HD outer ball joints if you do the offset control arm bushes

The other big change to make to the 328 is to convert the sway bar from short links onto the control arm to long links onto the strut - huge improvement.

I need to clarify if it's the inners or the outers first, hopefully it's the outers, and will definitely be going for the HD units if it is.

I have heard of using the offset bushes as well, something I am looking at doing as well. This will increase the castor angle, correct? And hence the improvement on turn in?

Interesting comment re the sway bar links - I've heard good and bad things about that mod, depending on what the car is used for. Will keep researching it before making any changes though - it doesn't look like a hard modification to do later on though so will keep it in mind.

Ideally I would love to take a bit of the negative camber out of it as it's very near the limit of tolerance (-1.8 degrees IIRC) with the car around normal ride height, and plans to drop it nearly 2 inches all round will cause a few headaches later on - I suspect the only real way is with aftermarket adjustable camber plates (which will require a cert).

[NZ00Z3 189]

If you plan on going for a faster steering rack, like one from a Z3, then don't go for the offset control arm rear bushings. The Z3 rack can't manage that amount of caster and you will have overly jumpy/bumpy steering. The Z3 rack is a low ratio linear rack whereas the E36 rack is a higher ratio and non-liner, meaning that the E36 has more ability to control the forces to/from the wheels in the center position than the Z3 rack.

[Mad_Max 233]

If you plan on going for a faster steering rack, like one from a Z3, then don't go for the offset control arm rear bushings. The Z3 rack can't manage that amount of caster and you will have overly jumpy/bumpy steering. The Z3 rack is a low ratio linear rack whereas the E36 rack is a higher ratio and non-liner, meaning that the E36 has more ability to control the forces to/from the wheels in the center position than the Z3 rack.

At this stage, I'm happy with the rack that's in it, it seems to respond quick enough for now. The car is mostly street driven (with errrmmmm "spirited driving" I will add lol), so I dare say that rack will stay as is for now.

Allow me to clarify for you:

Increasing caster doesn't improve turn in:

It does improve --- straight line stability and it does increase dynamic negative camber

- that is: if you do it, you can reduce your static camber which gives better straight line traction (braking on the front) and a more optimised contact patch / geometry from straight to turned in. It also gives more feel which is progressive and sometimes mistaken for understeer.

Offset bushes will give you about 5.5 degrees caster as per previous post - add in M3 off set top mounts and you can go to 6.5 degrees , BUT you need to modify the M3 top mount( quite easy)

For example I was running standard caster with 1.8 negative , I now run 6.5 degrees caster with 1.3 degrees negative camber M3 top hats reduce camber to 0.8 degrees negative at M-Sport ride height

The sway bay mod has NO negatives provided it is done correctly. If you change the links to strut pick-up you MUST also change the bar to a smaller size or it will be way too stiff particularly if the rear bar is not equally up rated not changing means you get a huge front to rear roll stiffness imbalance making the car understeer and also reducing front traction dramatically.

Cool, thanks - definitely food for thought. The M3 top hats are probably the best way to go at the moment, then work on the rest. Having seen your comments regarding the front bar, personally myself I do prefer a stiffer setup, I have run it very well in previous cars and seems to suit my driving style, however that is something I will be looking into at some stage so will cross that bridge when I get to it.

On a side note, I have had a good look at the springs, as there was always something odd about them...... H&R springs, 1" drop according to the part numbers. I have seen people comparing them to Eibach springs in terms of quality, though am kinda dubious about that. The rears seem to be compressed the whole time, which would explain why the rear feels like it has no suspension travel and bottoms out all the time....... and the front sits way too high lol.....

[M3AN 4016]

If you plan on going for a faster steering rack, like one from a Z3, then don't go for the offset control arm rear bushings. The Z3 rack can't manage that amount of caster and you will have overly jumpy/bumpy steering. The Z3 rack is a low ratio linear rack whereas the E36 rack is a higher ratio and non-liner, meaning that the E36 has more ability to control the forces to/from the wheels in the center position than the Z3 rack.

I've not tried it (yet) but many M3 owners use and prefer the Z3 rack, in fact it's difficult to find any negative feedback from those that do use it. What's your view on that considering your comments on caster?

[Mad_Max 233]

Post a couple of pics and measure the ride height - which you do from the lowest part of the rim to the highest part of the wheel arch vertically above , You need to include the wheel size.

H&R springs are good , but if the front is high and the back low sounds like the are not a set for the same vehicle - ride heights will tell the story.

Sorry Ron, I didn't clarify it properly - the front sits too high for my liking. The car itself is pretty much dead level all the way around, so I'm assuming the springs are a correct set - I'll confirm that when I go to do the ball joints and can get a good look at the fronts. It's just an optical illusion that the front is too high, ideally I'd love to drop it another 1 1/2 inches all round, might have to hunt down some new springs for it. But first things first, sort these ball joints out and go from there

[Mad_Max 233]

Just came across these, wonder how legal they'd be over here, instead of ball joints:

http://www.ground-control-store.com/products/description.php/II=939/CA=254

[Andre3000 55]

Get a pair of Meyle Hd front arms from All euro parts, by far the cheapest price for quality items. If your outer ball joint is poked its highly likely the inner is close behind too.

[Mad_Max 233]

It is common to rake the E36 about 30 to 40mm lower in the front with the staggered wheel set up - it works really well.

Yes thinking I might drop the front another 30mm to 40mm, the rear I managed to drop a further 10mm last weekend and I'm happy with how it's sitting in the rear, so will look at the front when doing the ball joints.

Get a pair of Meyle Hd front arms from All euro parts, by far the cheapest price for quality items. If your outer ball joint is poked its highly likely the inner is close behind too.

Yes had that thought too, thinking it might be time to redo the whole front end. Might just slap some cheap outer ball joints in it for now and start gathering parts, do the whole lot in one hit then get an alignment done and she should be like new again.