Airbag recalls

[Gabe79 410]

Just now, m325i said:

Really? 

I called them both and they both said months to wait. Maybe they know I need a replacement? 

That's entirely possible. I was told mine was in a grey area where it could have been affected, but needed eyes to verify. 

[E30 325i Rag-Top 2956]

It is all dependent on which vehicle you have, due to the overall scale of the recall(s) and the fact they are all from the same supplier and the same part of the car they are all getting talked of as one single "Airbag Recall" which is not the case, there are lots of different cases. Which is why the responses you get from the dealer may vary, some cars will definately need replacing and be waiting for the airbag part, some cars need a check.

Due to the massive world wide scale of the recall Takata, the manufacturer is drowning under all the claims and has filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy I believe, and supply of parts is an issue. The number of BMWs affected is many millions, let alone the Toyotas, Hondas, etc in this world and they are all screaming for parts.

[M3_Power 636]

17 hours ago, E30 325i Rag-Top said:

Only just seen this so apologies for the late reply. Either you are paraphrasing the response or the person you spoke to doesn't know what they are talking about. ALL vehicles in NZ that can be traced, if affected, will be recalled. The list of affected air-bags and hence cars is changing almost daily as it is on a car by car basis.

I thought you had burnt all your bridges with BMWNZ staff after your little tanty over not being invited to M Festival? Clearly you are still bitter.

WOW how professional! I expected better from you!

How did you ever interpret what I wrote as being bitter??!! It was written over 1.5 years ago!!! WTF? Simply uncalled for! I simply relayed what I was told "at the time" when I asked about the driver airbag by the service advisor! 1.5 years ago!!! Heck the guy probably doesn't even work for you guys now! I stated clearly I am not sure if "this will change" in reference to non NZ new cars. As it transpires according to you I was given the wrong information back then!

And if you really think BMWNZ is doing a good job with these airbag recalls, check my two E46 cars that had both airbags replaced two months BEFORE I actually got the recall letter to come in and do the recall?! Why are you sending me letters when it was already done??

You honestly think I still hold a grudge over an M day invitation from years back???!!! If I did, I wouldn't have bought a F80 M3 two years ago and I wouldn't have just bought another car TODAY from the same dealership?!! I also wouldn't be constantly buying spare parts for my cars! In fact I am more than certain I alone maybe the highest "individual (non corporate) spender on parts at dealerships. 

"Not" the way to treat someone that still holds a passion for the brand and still direct business towards the brand - don't believe me, ring the dealerships and find out from the service guys and parts guys that do a fantastic job.

Ring Jonny and find out if I didn't just buy a car today!

Whether I burnt my bridges with people in BMWNZ or not is irrelevant to an airbag recall, it's not like I've actually received personal invitations to any drive days since then anyways, so most likely already black listed. Do I care? Not a bit really. Do BMWNZ care? I suspect not really either given your reponse to my post 1.5 years ago! 

Heck crucify me for not updating on the status of airbag recalls!

ps. And No need to thank me for spending my time going through all my backup hard drives and old computers ao I can dig out and supply old photos of the original Mini Showroom so that visitingGermans can see the progression to what the brand is today.

 

pss. Tanty over - peace!

 

 

 

Edited August 22, 2017 by M3_Power

[polley 916]

Zzzzz

[zero 1162]

Spoke to BMW today, and they are trying to get my e46's done shortly.

I've been waiting nearly a year, but if my car gets a free clean like others have mentioned I wont mind.

[E30 325i Rag-Top 2956]

18 hours ago, M3_Power said:

 I simply relayed what I was told "at the time" when I asked about the driver airbag by the service advisor! 

therein lies the problem, "a service advisor" at the dealership reads very differently to "BMWNZ told me.." 

The handling of such massive recall(s) is difficult enough for all concerned even before internet rumours.

Ps - boomshanka.

[M3_Power 636]

6 hours ago, E30 325i Rag-Top said:

therein lies the problem, "a service advisor" at the dealership reads very differently to "BMWNZ told me.." 

The handling of such massive recall(s) is difficult enough for all concerned even before internet rumours.

Ps - boomshanka.

Semantics, fairly sure the said service advisor on matters such as these say to customers "according to BMWNZ ..." I hardly think they just make stuff up to tell customers. Also if I recall correctly I think with this particular incident i asked about it three or four times initially and the dealership actually went to find out from someone at head office what was happening, hence the "according to BMWNZ ..."

Someone in your position can surely supply to the forum the actual numbers of still registered E46s both import and sold new in NZ and how many airbags are in stock or coming into stock for those recalls? I'd like to know if there are as many airbags as there are cars here in the country? 

Regardless, I do apologise for the confusion if I had caused it - I honestly don't know what is happening with these recalls since I last asked 1.5 years ago - I also have not been as active on forums recently and it never occured to me to update about a post on airbag recalls 1.5years ago, but what I don't understand is how you can imply from what I wrote as indications that I was still bitter over something that was long past - or as you call it my tanty episode?? Fair judgement on a still loyal customer you think??? If anything your attitude towards me three years post said tanty incident seems to indicate that it is you that still hold a grudge against me for some unknown reason? 

 

ps - I also most certainly don't appreciate what you have implied about me being bitter? Far from it? I think I deserve an apology, much like the one I gave Mark K three years ago.

Pss - I am still grateful for things that head office do for me! So I am honestly perplexed as to where this animosity is coming from? I am still buying parts and cars from the brand almost too regularly and I have been sober and not thrown a tanty over trivial crap for the last three years : P Perhaps time to move on and move forward Jon? 

Wave next time you spot me on the road, it's not like you live that far away from me anyhow!

 

Edited August 23, 2017 by M3_Power

[Neal 543]

In a brighter note the local dealer has ordered an airbag for the second recall on air bags for my imported e46 m3. 

Gets installed next month.

Came across this the other day.

http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/05/18/528966358/4-car-companies-settle-takata-airbag-lawsuit-for-553-million

Edited August 23, 2017 by Neal

[zero 1162]

6 hours ago, Neal said:

Came across this the other day.

http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/05/18/528966358/4-car-companies-settle-takata-airbag-lawsuit-for-553-million

So the vehicle manufacturers get stung for millions for something that was not their fault?

At least they get some money back from the airbag company, but I cant imagine it covering all their losses, especially when you consider the damage to the brand.

[Gabe79 410]

The airbag company is gone. There is nothing to get back now... This was a huge case of all eggs in one basket and the basket just melted... I don't think it's fair to say the car brands have had brand reputation damaged, tbh. I only ever see it described as the Takata recall now. Pretty much every car manufacturer got hit, so hard to say any one brand hurt more than another...

Edited August 24, 2017 by E30 325i Rag-Top
quoting previous post...grr

[Neal 543]

This comes down to a risk position by the car manufacturers. They've got caught out in taking too long to redeem in the USA. You and I are carrying the risk in the mean time and choose to drive a car with defective air bags whilst the recall is done. 

 

Edited August 24, 2017 by Neal

[E30 325i Rag-Top 2956]

14 hours ago, M3_Power said:

Someone in your position can surely supply to the forum the actual numbers of still registered E46s both import and sold new in NZ and how many airbags are in stock or coming into stock for those recalls? I'd like to know if there are as many airbags as there are cars here in the country? 

Everything and anything I post on Bimmersport is my own private, personal opinion, it is in no way meant to be representative of BMW Group NZ or any other branch of BMW. I am often caught between giving out information and my position and I always have to err on the side of safety, there are very strict guidelines on this subject area.

The answers to your questions would change from minute to minute and hour by hour, so that again that is why I would not post such information even if I had it. So all I can say, is if you are unsure, then please contact your local dealer, with your chassis number, and they will be able to give you the current situation for your vehicle.

Peace out.

[m325i 709]

Well after following up on my '2-3 month wait list', they have the parts ready for me now, (after 1 month).  

@M3_Power I certainly appreciate your input, feedback and opinion as one of the most helpful 'amateur' contributors to the (inter)national e46 community. Ignore these haters that obviously have no idea what you contribute. 

[richard 384]

6 hours ago, Gabe79 said:

The airbag company is gone. There is nothing to get back now... This was a huge case of all eggs in one basket and the basket just melted... I don't think it's fair to say the car brands have had brand reputation damaged, tbh. I only ever see it described as the Takata recall now. Pretty much every car manufacturer got hit, so hard to say any one brand hurt more than another...

this is what happens when you chase the cheapest to the bottom . Everyone goes there.

The company has/had no chance for R and D and everyone else goes out of business because they are the cheapest. Now there a is problem with airbags in cars 40 million + at the last count,

Are you driving one. !!!!!?????? 

Edited August 24, 2017 by richard

[Gabe79 410]

25 minutes ago, richard said:

this is what happens when you chase the cheapest to the bottom . Everyone goes there.

The company has/had no chance for R and D and everyone else goes out of business because they are the cheapest. Now there a is problem with airbags in cars 40 million + at the last count,

Are you driving one. !!!!!?????? 

I don't disagree with the general sentiment about how chasing bottom dollar leads to everyone losing, but I don't know that was necessarily the case here.

My airbags were checked, all good.

[richard 384]

If there's really competition in the market "takata' would have to show that their product(airbag) would deploy without the shards hitting the occupants in the seat.

To do this TESTS would have had to be preformed.

Had this been done MAYBE their  product would have  been shown up as faulty and the car manufacturer dealt  with some one else 

[Neal 543]

7 hours ago, zero said:

So the vehicle manufacturers get stung for millions for something that was not their fault?

At least they get some money back from the airbag company, but I cant imagine it covering all their losses, especially when you consider the damage to the brand.

Its quite interesting an dilemma when a car is built using quite a number of parts suppliers. I wonder how many different brands going into making a car. The commercial and legal contracts that go into building a car must be massive. We thing of the car being BMW , but the reality is that's it probably a collection 100 plus brands. Either way .... safety comes first.

 

 

[zero 1162]

1 hour ago, richard said:

If there's really competition in the market "takata' would have to show that their product(airbag) would deploy without the shards hitting the occupants in the seat.

To do this TESTS would have had to be preformed.

Had this been done MAYBE their  product would have  been shown up as faulty and the car manufacturer dealt  with some one else 

Apparently they did know they were faulty and tried to cover it up.

[allan 295]

No matter what the case maybe with this it is one big Forking mess. To have any out come will take time and patience on all fronts despite the alarming safety issues raised. So my understanding of this correct me if wrong dealing with only BMW owners first off a recall of passenger air bags was issued and the various models identified and letters sent to owners. Due to a supply short age this took some time to gain momentum but did proceed the faulty bags were replaced at no charge and the owner went on their merry way as some members have stated. Only that was not the end of it it now appears that their is another recall this time for the air bag in the steering wheel and possibly other units to be replaced on certain models and only on vehicles NZ new at the time according to BMWNZ is this correct. So by contacting a dealer or BMWNZ will one get a conformation that your vehicle is involved or not in this latest development.???

[E30 325i Rag-Top 2956]

Whilst i agree 100% with your views on the race to the bottom - having worked for Ford for a number of years I know how that turns out, I would say that categorically that is not the case here. Takata were a major player in the airbag supply, approx. 30% of worldwide supply, but for specialist parts supply that figure is not uncommon due to the huge investment and testing costs. Try and estimate the number of airbags that means, in terms of total numbers, numbers made per day, plus varieties and versions of those airbags.

14 hours ago, richard said:

If there's really competition in the market "takata' would have to show that their product(airbag) would deploy without the shards hitting the occupants in the seat.

To do this TESTS would have had to be preformed.

Had this been done MAYBE their  product would have  been shown up as faulty and the car manufacturer dealt  with some one else 

The amount of time, effort analysis and work that goes into trying to predict and plan for failures (Failure Mode Effect Analysis = FMEA) is staggering, none of which is really seen by the driver and unfortunately can never foresee every single eventuality..

The designs of the bags that are being recalled WERE tested thoroughly, and deemed to be safe when they were put into place. However, these airbags are now 15-20 years old and guess what? In that time the way they perform has changed due to the nature of the chemicals used to generate the "explosion" to make the airbag deploy rapidly. Many airbags are recommended to be replaced every 5-10 years for this very reason. Would you keep a big firework for 20 years and then expect it to work perfectly after all that time? Very similar fundamentals behind both pieces of equipment. Some of this chemical deterioration is BELIEVED to be due to the way the bags were manufactured at the time and some down to the environments in which the bags have been used, mostly linked to high humidity.

Whether they knew of the issue and tried to cover it up is conjecture, however Takata are still going - being propped up by the car companies because if they fall over there is an even bigger problem, they have just taken out a legal position in the USofA. The reason for that again is not the race to the bottom in terms of price but the fact that are having to replace millions and millions of products free of charge - which would cause financial problems for any company from McDonalds to Apple to Takata.

Fingers crossed there is a way through all of this relatively quickly.

Disclaimer - personal thoughts and opinions only, from general observations and experience of the Automotive Industry over 26 years.

[E30 325i Rag-Top 2956]

2 hours ago, allan said:

No matter what the case maybe with this it is one big Forking mess.

So by contacting a dealer or BMWNZ will one get a conformation that your vehicle is involved or not in this latest development.???

First part - very true.

Second part - also true.

[zero 1162]

1 hour ago, E30 325i Rag-Top said:

Whether they knew of the issue and tried to cover it up is conjecture

"The three Japanese executives, Shinichi Tanaka, Hideo Nakajima and Tsuneo Chikaraishi, allegedly concealed deadly defects in the inflator inside the company's air bags. In emails, they allegedly referred to submitting false reports of test data to automakers that were using their products, even after initial news reports that the inflators were failing and injuring people."

http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/01/13/509665912/takata-to-pay-1-billion-over-airbag-fraud-3-executives-criminally-charged

https://www.justice.gov/opa/press-release/file/926066/download

[E30 325i Rag-Top 2956]

The Amercians are always keen for a scapegoat, they love having someone to blame. Be interesting to see the results of this case thought, sounds like there is some damning evidence.

If it has been a case that they knew a long time ago, then that is a whole nother level of screw up as its such an important safety device.

[gjm 3258]

13 minutes ago, E30 325i Rag-Top said:

The Amercians are always keen for a scapegoat, they love having someone to blame. Be interesting to see the results of this case thought, sounds like there is some damning evidence.

If it has been a case that they knew a long time ago, then that is a whole nother level of screw up as its such an important safety device.

Litigation society. And (although less relevant in this case) an inability to accept responsibility, so they seek someone to blame.

[E30 325i Rag-Top 2956]

They always seem particularly keen on this type of legal action when it is a "foreign" car company, ie Toyota, Volkswagen, Takata, than when it is their "own" 'Murican car companies.