540i Transmission Fluid Change?

[tangalife 1]

Wondering if someone can recommend a shop preferably out West, but the Shore also, to get my 1997 e39 540i Auto Trans fluid changed. Also how much does this usually cost?

Getting what appears to be a grinding noise and pulsing of RPM's around the 1.5k-2krpm mark while holding the same steady speed going slightly uphill. No codes are thrown but I suspect it could be the torque converter having some trouble. At around 190km It could be a good idea to look at changing the fluid anyway.

 

[Eagle 1660]

Sounds like it. Probably in the $300-$400 region to drop the pan to clean, replace gasket and filter, then fill with the correct fluid

[*Glenn* 854]

I very much doubt the oil change will effect the torque converter issue. The symptoms indicate it is. Does it stop if you flick it into tiptronic ?

[tangalife 1]

Unfortunately not, problem still there while in tiptronic mode. M

It's actually been like this since I got it, a few years ago. But it sounds like its got worse in recent weeks, ever since I moved house and now cruise the motorway everyday to and from work - where I stay in that 1-2k RPM cruising speed where the problem occurs.

I need to sell this car, but im assuming this is going to devalue it big time, not like its really worth much more than the repair cost itself.

 

Edited November 10, 2016 by tangalife

[mattronic 1]

I am now wondering if I have a similar issue that I had thought related to a misfire.  I have what I think feels like a misfire when cruising at a constant speed mostly at around 1500-2000 rpm, only it is regular, and possibly not as pronounced, and definitely not on every revolution - more like every 2 seconds there is a slight drop in power almost like lightly touching on the brake.  This isn't noticeable or present when accelerating, and doesn't seem to be there all of the time.  I don't have any noticeable noise, but is this what you mean by "pulsing"?

I also have slipping in reverse with high revs, and wonder if this could also be related to the torque converter and perhaps fluid quality and levels?

[Gaz 1058]

Does it only happen once warm? If so, warm you are describing sounds like a lock up shudder. I'd be taking it to an autotrans specialist and getting them to scan the transmission for faults. 

[mattronic 1]

No, happens first thing in the morning too as far as I can recall, (the reverse slipping) I have been pretty gentle lately, so I can't say for sure, but will see what happens tomorrow morning if I give it a bit of gas...  I haven't pulled any codes, but perhaps my reader doesn't pick up everything?  Thanks for the reply...  Do you think the two issues might be related?  I expect a fluid change is a good idea anyway, or is a flush a better idea?

[mattronic 1]

So, it slips in reverse when cold but (mostly) without the shudder.  I get the shudder when warm. I have read some information suggesting fluid level and quality could have something to do with it, so would a change be a sensible first step, or do you think I need to call the experts?

[Gaz 1058]

Could be a fluid issue but I would still take it to a trans specialist first, get a proper diagnosis because if a flush doesn't fix, you've just wasted coin on fluid you didn't need. 

[mattronic 1]

Thanks Gaz, I took it in for a diagnosis at a nearby automatic transmission specialist, and while he entertained the idea that a flush might help, he thought a rebuild was in order - the damage is likely done.  He took the time to explain how it all works and what is likely happening which improved my recently acquired understanding.  He explained that as the quality of the fluid degrades in looses its ability to apply the pressure required to engage the clutch properly and therefore allows slipping and excessive wear on the plates which are quickly damaged and therefore need replacing.  His price wasn't as bad as I thought it might be at between 2500-3000+GST, (or $280 for a flush and filter & gasket change), but far more than enough to ruin my day... 

As this hasn't been happening long, and is only in reverse when revving high, I am still considering trying a fluid change to see if it makes any difference. If it does I'll order the filter and gasket and do it properly, and repeat the change after a few more km, or perhaps get the specialist to do the the flush, but I have read conflicting information and most seem to suggest a fluid change is the appropriate procedure.  If it makes it worse, then I have lost maybe $60 on fluid and some quality time under the car, but jumping in to 3K of repairs is going to hurt.

From what I have read slipping is to do with the fluid, its just a matter of how much damage has been done already and whether or not it is too late.

[allan 295]

Hi Matt,

Reading your post glad to hear you have had it diagnosed by a professional and by the sound of it now have a better understanding of what is happening due to him explaining the slush box operation. At least the fluid change may / may not buy you some time to consider your next move this could be a auto rebuild. At around $3,450 that is a lot of money or have you considered what it would cost for a manual conversion. Best of luck with what ever you decide.

[tangalife 1]

Matt - please come back and let us know how you got on, will really like to know if it solved the problem or not. 

[mattronic 1]

So, I decided I at least needed to try a fluid change. (no new filter or gasket at this stage).  The fluid didn't look too bad.  Dirty light brown but not burnt.  I almost left it there as the fluid looked OK, and it wasn't low either, but decided since I already had the fluid and it wasn't going to get any better or hopefully any worse with the change I would give it a try.  It went well aside from the fluid transfer pump from Repco ending up with fluid on the wrong side of the seal and all over me...  But reverse still slips!.. The shudder seems to have gone however and so has the annoying "pulse!"  So the car feels better than ever, (I also sorted my misfire issue which was a coil) but I need to take it easy in reverse and can't back up a steep hill.  It is good to know the pulse was related to the fluid.  I might leave it for a while and save some money for the repair, but on the other hand, getting it repaired and new fluid and a filter sooner rather than later might be a better idea.  Tangalife, is what I am describing as a "pulse" what you have also?  Any other opinions on whether a further change (with filter this time), or a flush might make any difference?

[aja540i 1906]

Did you get the exact right fluid level in the gearbox after the change? These autos are very sensitive to their fluid level, after I changed mine I took it to my mechanic to put it up on the hoist and fill it according to the proper procedure, I drove it about half a Km to the mechanic and it drove like a bag of broken ar5eh0les on the way there and was mint on the way back!  Also using the proper fluid is critical. Changing the fluid properly bought me about a year in mine and then it was manual conversion time!!

[mattronic 1]

Checking the fluid in the beginning, with the car running, the level must have been well over the fill port as quite a lot started to drain out.  (blocking it up again while upside-down under the car didn't happen quick enough).  I have refilled to overflowing again, although it did occur to me that re-checking after a drive might be a good idea.  I haven't done this as my method of elevating the car is not entirely easy... I also measured approx 4.5 litres drained, and only got 3 and a bit back in before overflowing, so perhaps you are on to something, but then the difference also explains why it seemed over filled at the beginning...  It still shifts sweet in forward gears, so I think all is well, but I am a little concerned about the difference in quantities.  I also didn't have an easy time deciding what fluid to use, that was part of what brought me to Bimmersport in the first place.  I ended up using Penrite Full Synthetic as it was the only one I could find with the LT71141 spec. (Although I admit outside of the internet I didn't look further than Repco)  What fluid did you use, and where did you get it?  This factor is also of concern and part of why getting this sorted sooner rather than later might be a good idea.  On another note, reverse still has a bit of a "clunk" and obvious delay in engaging - I am not sure that is entirely normal, but I am pretty sure nothing has changed.  Could this slow engage point to something else rather than a worn clutch/brake pack?...Solenoid? Blockage? I still don't understand why it would be the relatively little used reverse that has the issues? (this is all based on my recently gained internet expertise, so please put me right)

[aja540i 1906]

I used the genuine esso oil, was about $20 / litre, from a BMW specialist, but if what you have meets the spec it should work, I would start with getting the level right, there is a procedure and it really needs to be on a hoist to do it properly, I would take it to someone who has done a few.

[mattronic 1]

I've read a lot of information, seen a few vids, and believe I've followed the procedure.  A hoist would make it easy, but I had the car level, so think everything went as expected.  You are giving me the impression you think that changing the fluid and getting it right might sort this out?

[aja540i 1906]

No, sorry, I dont think getting the fluid level right will fix the problem, I do think it will be impossible to diagnose properly if the fluid level is wrong. It is possible to do it without a hoist, but I did that and still couldn't get it 100%, and its probably the cheapest thing to get done at this stage.

Also, if you havent rechecked it after a drive you may not have the correct procedure because im pretty sure thats the last step, but a professional who does this for a living will know it inside out. 

I also accepted the fact that I was just buying time until a much bigger bill as mine had 280+ Km on it!

[mattronic 1]

Thanks for the clarification Andrew.  The transmission specialist thought I would be wasting my money with the change or flush, so I don't think I am going to win even if I adjust the levels at this point.  I thought I would just take it in after the fluid change didn't help the slipping so wasn't too concerned about getting the level perfect.  As I am thinking I might wait a while, I will re-check the level.

[Allanw 1071]

Doesn't the drum for reverse break in these transmissions??? I though reverse disappeared? Maybe it's part way there so far???

 

Sorry.

[zero 1162]

The fluid level has to be done with the fluid at a certain temperature - if its not you will either drastically overfill or drastically underfill.

That is why when you drained the fluid you thought there was too much, and when you refilled much less went in.

Getting the level right is absolutely critical.

[mattronic 1]

Now this is all a bit approximate working with the levels shown on the drain pan, and the new fluid bottle, but the hot fluid that drained out was around 4.5 litres, the same fluid now in the new fluid container measures about 4.2 litres.  That difference isn't going to account for the 1.3 litre difference so I think it is more likely that running it would take up the extra fluid - I have just read something suggesting up to 1.5 litres difference so that would account for it.  My mistake...

Also to note, it was overflowing when I first opened the fill port with the car running.  Refilling with cold fluid and filling to overflowing would suggest that after warming it up again it would be overflowing even more.

I'll get it off the ground again and top it off warm ASAP.  I guess it is interesting it does't seem to have made any difference other than loosing the shudder.

[tangalife 1]

Hi Matt yes it does sound similar. The pulsing is very discreet though, very short sudden and rapid with about 2 sec break in between, but still noticeable. This goes with the noise I can hear from underneath the car/transmission area. It does sound pretty similar to your problem. 

I did run codes last night and I have quite a few:

8B Activation, map cooling
23 Additive mixture adaptation (idle) cylinder 5-8, control limit reached
1B Additive mixture adaptation (idle) cylinder 1-4, control limit reached
12 Oxygen-sensor ageing before cat. conv. cyl 5-8
73 Hot film mass air flow sensor (I had to disconnect the MAF the other day and start the car so this may have appeared because of that, will need to see if it appears again)
0A Oxygen sensor before catalytic converter cylinder 1-4
3E Misfiring, sum, relevant to exhaust gas
39 Misfire cyl. 8

The oxygen sensor ageing, activation map cooling, additive mixture adaptation and misfiring sum relevant to exhaust gas have all been there for a while as I have cleared them a couple times over. The misfire on cyl. 8 is fairly new.

I did replace a coil on cyl 4 a couple months ago but it was clearly dead, this doesn't feel like it's running on 7 cylinders like it was 2 months ago. 

[mattronic 1]

Sounds like you have "pulsing!" at regular intervals, mine is just a single "pulse" like a misfire (no noise either), but its gone now I am happy to say.

[zero 1162]

7 hours ago, mattronic said:

Now this is all a bit approximate working with the levels shown on the drain pan, and the new fluid bottle, but the hot fluid that drained out was around 4.5 litres, the same fluid now in the new fluid container measures about 4.2 litres.  That difference isn't going to account for the 1.3 litre difference so I think it is more likely that running it would take up the extra fluid - I have just read something suggesting up to 1.5 litres difference so that would account for it.  My mistake...

Also to note, it was overflowing when I first opened the fill port with the car running.  Refilling with cold fluid and filling to overflowing would suggest that after warming it up again it would be overflowing even more.

I'll get it off the ground again and top it off warm ASAP.  I guess it is interesting it does't seem to have made any difference other than loosing the shudder.

The fluid expands greatly at different temperatures. There is a specific temp (cant remember the number right now) that the oil must be at when setting the level.

If this is set incorrectly you WILL damage the transmission.