Electric cars emit 50% less greenhouse gas than diesel, study finds

[E30 325i Rag-Top 2956]

On ‎26‎/‎10‎/‎2017 at 0:30 PM, Gabe79 said:

Wind turbines usually remain usable in their location for a long time...  Another word for 'renewable' (as distinct from fossil fuels, which are finite) is 'sustainable.' It isn't the water, or the wind the pushes the turbine, as such, it's the flow of water, or wind. Nothing is 'used' when wind/water flow through a turbine.

Oh dear, you clearly haven't stood and watched a wind farm for a length of time, or over successive days / weeks / months. One of the joys of my old house was it's spectacular views of the wind farms on the ranges over the Manawatu. It was a surprise if any more than about 20% of the turbines were in operation at any one time. Not a very efficient energy gathering solution.

There is a very defined envelope of wind speed, consistency, etc. that a turbine can operate in, different designs of turbine have different envelopes. So when the little two bladey ones are whizzing around (sorry don't know the technical names..) then the big 3 blade ones are sitting still and vice versa.

Also the Danish company that built the big three blade ones, Vestas I think it was, used to hire a shed at the back of the factory I ran for overhauling the gearboxes from the turbines. Roughly once every three months pretty much the whole generator unit had to be pulled off the top of the pylon and brought into the workshop, stripped, re-built and put back - I wonder how much CO2 all that lot generated??

Again very selective how you choose your metrics and measurements, but yeah EVs overall are great.

[zero 1162]

Wind and solar are very inefficient, expensive, and generate the power at the wrong time of day for usage.

 

Hydro is what provides the base load but the Greens dont like them.

[Michael. 2313]

Hydro is so destructive to set up, look at what they did to build the Clyde and Roxburgh damn, flooding half of Cormwell town, flooding farm lands and destroying a beautiful landscape for miles. 

Everything has its dark side 

[zero 1162]

3 hours ago, Michael. said:

Hydro is so destructive to set up, look at what they did to build the Clyde and Roxburgh damn, flooding half of Cormwell town, flooding farm lands and destroying a beautiful landscape for miles. 

Everything has its dark side 

Agree, but look at how much land per mw hydro uses, and compare that to solar and wind.

 

For example Benmore puts out 540mw.

The largest windfarm in Europe peaks at 600mw and covers 110 square kilometres. And that is just peak - because wind is not reliable or consistent they expect only 30% of that 600mw capacity - so only 180mw.

They would need to be triple the size just to match Benmore.

 

 

[Michael. 2313]

Mans progress always comes at a cost and nothing is perfect. 

It's also more convenient for some to make money out of imperfect solutions. 

[E30 325i Rag-Top 2956]

That's a bit deep and philosophical for a car form Mike!!

[darkblue44 3]

Because of this, I should really consider getting a Prius. 

[aja540i 1906]

No, no one should get a prius, ever!

[E30 325i Rag-Top 2956]

10 hours ago, darkblue44 said:

Because of this, I should really consider getting a Prius. 

Only if it's the later Plug-in Hybrid or even fully electric version of the Prius, the early "Hybrid" versions that don't plug in but charge of the engine / regenerative braking are the worst of all worlds and just a green wash marketing hype.

[Michael. 2313]

1 hour ago, E30 325i Rag-Top said:

Only if it's the later Plug-in Hybrid or even fully electric version of the Prius, the early "Hybrid" versions that don't plug in but charge of the engine / regenerative braking are the worst of all worlds and just a green wash marketing hype.

Maximum profiteering really, double the equipment and resources for minimal gains. 

 

[E30 325i Rag-Top 2956]

I believe it was for negative gains when measured in real world application. The weight of all the batteries and gubbins needed more fuel to lug around than was saved by driving in "electric" mode for 3 minutes before you ran out of charge!!

[Michael. 2313]

Yep its the same thing for battery electric cars, taxing to make the big heavy batteries that have a life span, and it just shifts the load from petrol / diesel to the electric grid which in most places is still those terrrrible fossil fuels like coal. 

The real electric car revolution wont begin until a long term solution is found, that exists as hydrogen fuel cell cars with very small or no batteries, hydrogen is an abundant resource, yes it require processing to gather and infrastructure needs to be build but its a similar model to LPG, and could easily be implemented in regular fuel stations. 

The fact a hydrogen car can be gassed up like a petrol, diese or LPG/CNG vehicle is exactly what the consumer wants. 

Depending on a battery that will go flat and takes at least 30 minutes to get a short range charge is taking steps backwards. It could work for some people that drive short distances and can charge it over night but I'm thinking of the bigger picture. The ease of long distance travelling is what has made the car so good for the last 100 years or so, that wouldnt have been the case waiting between trips when it runs out of fuel! 

 

[kiwi535 538]

3 hours ago, Michael. said:

Yep its the same thing for battery electric cars, taxing to make the big heavy batteries that have a life span, and it just shifts the load from petrol / diesel to the electric grid which in most places is still those terrrrible fossil fuels like coal. 

The real electric car revolution wont begin until a long term solution is found, that exists as hydrogen fuel cell cars with very small or no batteries, hydrogen is an abundant resource, yes it require processing to gather and infrastructure needs to be build but its a similar model to LPG, and could easily be implemented in regular fuel stations. 

The fact a hydrogen car can be gassed up like a petrol, diese or LPG/CNG vehicle is exactly what the consumer wants. 

Depending on a battery that will go flat and takes at least 30 minutes to get a short range charge is taking steps backwards. It could work for some people that drive short distances and can charge it over night but I'm thinking of the bigger picture. The ease of long distance travelling is what has made the car so good for the last 100 years or so, that wouldnt have been the case waiting between trips when it runs out of fuel! 

 

most hydrogen today is produced as part of the petrochemical process.Thats not sustainable.Battery technology is improving bit there just isnt enough of the current rare metals to produce as many batteries as we will need.

[hotwire 352]

6 hours ago, Michael. said:

Yep its the same thing for battery electric cars, taxing to make the big heavy batteries that have a life span, and it just shifts the load from petrol / diesel to the electric grid which in most places is still those terrrrible fossil fuels like coal. 

The real electric car revolution wont begin until a long term solution is found, that exists as hydrogen fuel cell cars with very small or no batteries, hydrogen is an abundant resource, yes it require processing to gather and infrastructure needs to be build but its a similar model to LPG, and could easily be implemented in regular fuel stations. 

The fact a hydrogen car can be gassed up like a petrol, diese or LPG/CNG vehicle is exactly what the consumer wants. 

Depending on a battery that will go flat and takes at least 30 minutes to get a short range charge is taking steps backwards. It could work for some people that drive short distances and can charge it over night but I'm thinking of the bigger picture. The ease of long distance travelling is what has made the car so good for the last 100 years or so, that wouldnt have been the case waiting between trips when it runs out of fuel! 

 

Well said, couldn't agree more

If electric continues with battery power & becomes mainstream, I recon i will start a towing company. There will be big demand for all the cars that run out of battery in the middle of nowhere....

[E30 325i Rag-Top 2956]

12 hours ago, kiwi535 said:

most hydrogen today is produced as part of the petrochemical process.Thats not sustainable.Battery technology is improving bit there just isnt enough of the current rare metals to produce as many batteries as we will need.

That is true, but you are talking about the situation today, not where we could be with developments in future technologies. Part of the whole Hydrogen fuel-cell is the generation of the hydrogen and then how to distribute and store it in a safe a sustainable way. The last info I read was explaining the process of generating the hydrogen from sea water, without the need for lots of electricity to do so, and there is plenty of that around and it is regenerated when it comes out the other end I think. so completely sustainable.

[richard 384]

55 minutes ago, E30 325i Rag-Top said:

The last info I read was explaining the process of generating the hydrogen from sea water

this part will be handy as sea levels rise due to global warming

[Michael. 2313]

Global warming. More like global profiteering  

[kwhelan 241]

10 hours ago, Michael. said:

Global warming. More like global profiteering  

think its pretty hard to deny that there global warming, but  i disagree with the notion that humans caused it and therefore we all should pay carbon taxes etc, its just the cycle and it will continue long after humans have gone from this place

[Michael. 2313]

12 hours ago, kwhelan said:

think its pretty hard to deny that there global warming, but  i disagree with the notion that humans caused it and therefore we all should pay carbon taxes etc, its just the cycle and it will continue long after humans have gone from this place

Yep for sure. Should have said man made, oops thats sexist... person made global warming. 

[coop 261]

3 hours ago, Michael. said:

Yep for sure. Should have said man made, oops thats sexist... person made global warming. 

No it is alright to say man made, as it implies a negative connotation to men, which is more than acceptable in hypocritical leftist ideology. Now if the shoe was on the other foot. 

[Michael. 2313]

I dunno, women have used a lot of hair spray over the decades, they sure have a lot to answer with those CFCs

[tawa 150]

What's with all the electric vehicle hate?

sh*t's going to make petrol cheaper if nothing else.

Would also be interesting to put a few of the 'evs have no soul/character' types into a tesla for a day and see if the tune changes...

Edited December 18, 2017 by tawa

[E30 325i Rag-Top 2956]

Just because a Tesla, or some Tesla's, accelerate fast doesn't give them a "soul or character" unless that character is an overgrown iPad that moves.

[Michael. 2313]

One of the only reasons I'm interested in cars is because of the noise they make, intake, exhaust, driveterrain etc. 

I like electric vehicles, they do and will have a place but they are flawed like everything humans make. 

I think it would be a fun project to make your own electric car out of something older, but its still an expensive exercise.

 

 

[kwhelan 241]

The latest Ministry for the Environment report New Zealand’s Environmental Reporting Series: Our atmosphere and climate 2017 reported on data collected all over New Zealand between 1960 and 2016 which showed a significant decrease in extreme wind events and a small decrease in extreme flooding events over that period.

“The statistics and data do not back up the desperate claims that we are experiencing more extreme weather events. We are experiencing less in fact, despite 1 degree of warming.

James Shaw is full of it