Electric cars emit 50% less greenhouse gas than diesel, study finds

[Michael. 2313]

A, how accurate is that data during that period, equipment has changed drastically over the decades

B, what was the specific weather like in 1850, 1750, 1650, 1050.......... ?

We haven't been around long enough to accurately test how weather ebbs and flows over the centuries first hand, it's always changed and will continue to do long after we are gone.

I love their angles about degrees of warming, as though everyone should feel guilty and feel obliged to pay some unknown entity to "fix" the "problem" better join flawed agreements like the Paris climate accord, cos transferring wealth is the solution. 

They should really tax the sun for it's harmful ability to regulate the earths temperature, or better yet those pesky natural geological sites / volcanoes that emit terrible greenhouse gasses in colossal quantities. But oh wait, they aren't people you can take money from!

Edited December 21, 2017 by Michael.

[aja540i 1906]

I find it a bit strange that when I got my M5 nobody mentioned its lifecycle co2 emissions, but when I told people I was getting a leaf its all I heard about.

[Michael. 2313]

3 hours ago, aja540i said:

I find it a bit strange that when I got my M5 nobody mentioned its lifecycle co2 emissions, but when I told people I was getting a leaf its all I heard about.

I'm looking forward to seeing it sometime, seems like a bit of a laugh. 

How many kms have you done in it so far?

[aja540i 1906]

Just over 2000.

[Michael. 2313]

1 hour ago, aja540i said:

Just over 2000.

If you did ~10km/L in a petrol car thats 200L @ $2.0 = $400 saved.

Such savings!

[aja540i 1906]

And think of all the carbons I have neutralised!!  But, $400 saved in 2 months is why i got it....

[Allanw 1071]

8 hours ago, Michael. said:

If you did ~10km/L in a petrol car thats 200L @ $2.0 = $400 saved.

Such savings!

You don't get 10km/L from an E61 M5 either.... ESPECIALLY with Andrew driving it

[Michael. 2313]

1 hour ago, Allanw said:

You don't get 10km/L from an E61 M5 either.... ESPECIALLY with Andrew driving it

Haha, yes you can just keep it in the 400hp mode.  

I mean in comparison to his old E36 318i I think that would be around 10k/l

[aja540i 1906]

2 hours ago, Allanw said:

You don't get 10km/L from an E61 M5 either.... ESPECIALLY with Andrew driving it

You could, but why would you?

[_ethrty-Andy_ 2132]

ask someone from Pakistan how environmentally friendly lithium mining is, they will show you photos that will appall you.

[Michael. 2313]

Lithium production in Bolivia, quite interesting. 

Edited December 24, 2017 by Michael.

[richard 384]

this guy is quite controversial with his views but I think he's spot on the money this time.

 

[M3AN 4016]

Interesting thread.

That Aussie is hilarious. It's worth noting however that his maths is based on electricity being "85% hydrocarbon generated" which is a poor indictment on Australian energy production and skews the numbers wildly. However I think a lot of what he says has merit.

I also think it's an oversimplification to make this a mineral verses electric discussion, science has moved on.

What we should all be able to agree on is that, as a population, we need to increase our relative use of renewable and sustainable energy source and strive to reduce our dependencies on depletable energy resources. Does anyone (other than Trump) not think that's a good idea?

Nuclear fuel cells I say. And bumper stickers that say "No tailgating, I'm carrying a NUKE!". 

 

 

 

[tawa 150]

Got bored of that pretentious wanker in the video, does he get to what car he thinks the environmentally conscious should buy? As with anything, money talks, and money spent on electric cars in the belief they are better for the environment just expands the market niche and creates market forces for the development of cars which are unquestionably better for the environment. In addition to secondary market forces on renewable energy supply.

[kiwi535 538]

58 minutes ago, 3pedals said:

It's just entertainment -it is as devoid of facts and rationale as those he pillories - choose a different car and a  an evolving grid system and the picture is quite different but also take note of HIS facts:

 Even with the shitty electricity infrastructure in Aus and  using the dumbest electric car you still get a whopping 50% reduction in emissions from passenger cars. Achieved  just by scaling the electricity network up by 10% - imagine what the trickle down benefits are like  all those leaking petrol tanks at stations polluting the soils and ground water - eliminated, all those tankers used to refuel those stations all those  refineries . 

Big on bullshit and offence short on objectivity and believe it or not FACT 

one fact he did highlight ad the elephant in the room....even in aussie the (tesla) ev model only improves the co2 out put by 4 or 5 percent .Its the big emmitters that need changing .

[Michael. 2313]

Yeah ^ 

I could see heavy industrial use of electric motors in trucks and such equipment. 

Seems to make more commercial sense with the fuel savings and the torque advantage.

[Gabe79 410]

53 minutes ago, 3pedals said:

It also makes real sense for average users if you choose the right vehicle 

I currently commute 23km each way to an office plus I do 5 road trips for work of about 500km each, my fuel bill  is about $3,100 per annum

If I replace my 328 with a 330e I can commute entirely on battery and then do the road trips on fossil fuel - this gives an annual cost of between $850 and $970  per annum (depends on fuel price and achieved economy ) so over 10 years the saving is $21,300 ( easily enough to buy a replacement battery) - and service costs are also reduced

If I go to an i3 with  which is a bit small for my use (with a range extender)  the same commute and road trips can be done for $430 per annum  and I would burn only 67 litres of fuel compared to 1441 litres.

330e is on my shortlist 

The electrical infrastructure for either is simple and can be home based and office based. The Tesla because of its enormous battery and guzzling of electrons can only effectively be charged from an industrial grade 3 phase supply. 

 

That 23km/way commute can be even more economic in a Leaf. Even a gen1 with a relatively worn battery can easily do that commute for awhile yet and it’ll cost you wel under $10k for one of those. 80-90km range is not bad for a second car. We went from $100-$200/month on petrol to not noticing a change in our home electric bill. 

 

Also, get an app called Plugshare. I think if we’d realised you can fast charge for free in so many places, we’d have spent more on a newer Leaf. A 30kwh battery on a gen2 can get 150ish km and that might almost suit us as an only car. 

[kwhelan 241]

1 hour ago, 3pedals said:

It also makes real sense for average users if you choose the right vehicle 

I currently commute 23km each way to an office plus I do 5 road trips for work of about 500km each, my fuel bill  is about $3,100 per annum

If I replace my 328 with a 330e I can commute entirely on battery and then do the road trips on fossil fuel - this gives an annual cost of between $850 and $970  per annum (depends on fuel price and achieved economy ) so over 10 years the saving is $21,300 ( easily enough to buy a replacement battery) - and service costs are also reduced

If I go to an i3 with  which is a bit small for my use (with a range extender)  the same commute and road trips can be done for $430 per annum  and I would burn only 67 litres of fuel compared to 1441 litres.

330e is on my shortlist 

The electrical infrastructure for either is simple and can be home based and office based. The Tesla because of its enormous battery and guzzling of electrons can only effectively be charged from an industrial grade 3 phase supply. 

 

is there an initial cost difference in 330e to factor into your savings? will work just let everybody charge their vehicles and how would they achieve that or will you have to go park somewhere else, possibly moving your car to let someone else have time on the charger,

you want to swing over town to pick up that trade parcel on the way home,bugger better think and plan how you'l do that

will electricity stay at the same rate as it is now or be charged at higher rates for peak charging times etc

you would be the first person on here to moan at the lack of sole and boredom of driving an appliance, yes its practical and friendly but its not a car, it has nothing to give you except a means of A-B 

batteries are not the answer to the problem they are nearly as damaging as the fuel, batteries leak when disposed of just as well as fuel tanks do and they explode and burn in accidents re richard hammond so insurance premiums and disposal costs will have to be factored in

I think his humoured point was valid tackle industry first while improving diesel or fuel to be cleaner or leaner makes more sense, one cruise ship does more damage than a whole city of cars so tackle that first

[Gabe79 410]

34 minutes ago, 3pedals said:

Yes it could be but the leaf drives like a dray and cannot knock out 250km non stop at open road speeds plus having knocked out a decent distance it needs hours to recharge so it doesn't work for me personally - for others it will, as you suggest.

The 330e drives like a 3er and is a good transition to a viable hydrogen fuel cell / electric which hopefully will be available within 10 yea. 

Fair enough. I don’t mind the Leaf as a daily. I drive the 530i infrequently and just enjoy it when I do. ?

note that charging times are better than most people realise. It’s a full charge at home in 4-6 hours and a fast charge to 80% is 20-30 minutes. 

 

[kiwi535 538]

12 hours ago, 3pedals said:

Actually no because  (a) its not an elephant  and (b) it's the deliberately misleading John Key defence - its not either / or,  its every one playing their part and if you read my comment for the information you will see that it has potentially significant flow on effects like reduction in tanker numbers. 

And your "even in Aus"  comment is  fatally flawed because: Aus like the US  is very fossil fuels based where as here we are hydro based so the impact here will be more significant as it will be in Europe and Japan. 

We are already moving to electric heavy machinery like  170 tonne dump trucks because it is blindingly sensible compared to the dinosaur diesel versions high torque on start up and no fuel use on idle. 

The fact is that individual car use is a relativily small co2 producer and that battery EVs are not the solution. .Battery trucks....even more outlandish.I dont think that hydro will be able to provide the total energy we require.You are right though that the impact of evs here will be more useful than more fossil based electricicty production

[tawa 150]

On 12/28/2017 at 11:10 AM, 3pedals said:

P.S note I refer to electric cars and trucks NOT battery - batteries are not the solution. 

Only due to moving goalposts via technological progression. Batteries are the current best solution in a growing number of use cases. BEVs are objectively a better environmental option compared to ICE cars provided both satisfy the desired use case.

[kiwi535 538]

On 12/28/2017 at 11:10 AM, 3pedals said:

You do like that John Key argument don't you - does your wife/ girlfriend get away with "but dear it is just one pair of shoes" ---  'it's the other 250 pairs in the wardrobe that are the problem and I can't change that' ??? 

Yes one car is a small emitter, so is one truck and one factory but shitloads of cars, trucks and factories all add up to  a sh*t load of emissions - electric cars are a solution for cars , electric trucks is a solution for trucks and Hydrogen is a solution for industry. It's all there and it all works and there are other options as well.

P.S note I refer to electric cars and trucks NOT battery - batteries are not the solution. 

please explain to me what you mean by "an electric car" if it isnt battery power.

[Michael. 2313]

24 minutes ago, kiwi535 said:

please explain to me what you mean by "an electric car" if it isnt battery power.

Hydrogen fuel cell. 

They produce an electrical charge by the hydrogen passing through the fuel cell, magical stuff with electrons happens when the gas combines with oxygen in the air, producing water (H2O) and the electric charge is harnessed.

It a beautiful system. Small battery + direct charge to the electric motors.

[kiwi535 538]

32 minutes ago, Michael. said:

Hydrogen fuel cell. 

They produce an electrical charge by the hydrogen passing through the fuel cell, magical stuff with electrons happens when the gas combines with oxygen in the air, producing water (H2O) and the electric charge is harnessed.

It a beautiful system. Small battery + direct charge to the electric motors.

Ahh i know what a hydrogen fuel cell is but where do you get the hydrogen?

[Michael. 2313]

28 minutes ago, kiwi535 said:

Ahh i know what a hydrogen fuel cell is but where do you get the hydrogen?

From BOC gas, in large bottles, easy.

Eventually, wait for gas stations to sell it like LPG.

Done!