Newly purchased 135i running badly - beginning of a saga?

[Herbmiester 923]

I see this a bit differently. Firstly you bought an imported N54 vehicle. I am not sure if you are aware but these engines have issues. The engine itself is pretty sound and unlike an s54 and some V8 and v10 motors you wont have to replace the bearings. You will however have to do plugs and coils, (maintenance items) and possibly injectors and a charge pipe at some stage. This is just part of N54 ownership, if you weren't prepared for this then you haven't done your homework.  Looking at your description of the fault there is a chance its the plugs or the coil pack/s. If this is the case and the dealer will replace them then win to you. You have skipped a maintenance bill. If its the injector/s then even bigger win you will get another  50k or more (probably 100k) from the replacement . If its a faulty coil or injector then when one goes the others will follow pretty soon, so work a deal with the dealer to have all of them replaced, he may or may not but perhaps going halves would still be a good deal for you. When the basic faults and maintenance items are done on these engines then they are quite reliable, it does seem that Jap import N54s have fewer injector issues than US based cars, perhaps this is because of the better fuel in Japan.  

To me this is a 10 year old car with known faults/maintenance items if it turns out to be one of the above-mentioned items then its pretty typical of the breed, if its a high pressure fuel pump even bigger win to you if the dealer fixes it. Taking it back if its just a simple parts replacement is a bit of a waste of time, obviously you wanted the car and did some research and checked it out? It seems now that you have cold feet because of this but really you need to understand the fault first and then make an informed decision. If things like this put you off then with all due respect an N54 car may not be for you. 

[M3AN 4016]

You're correct John that all of this needs to be taken into consideration. And the law in New Zealand is clear that it is the dealer's responsibility to take all that into consideration before selling a vehicle.

That's to say that if they purchase/import a vehicle with an engine that "has issues" then they're accountable for making sure those "issues" don't cause a purchaser any problems in a "reasonable" timeframe. In the case where the issues are foreseeable (perhaps because it's a weak engine) then that increases the dealer's responsibility because they're trade experts.

I do get your point but the law falls squarely on the side of the consumer here and that's how it should be. There's no profit without risk.

This is also why I say that a vehicle that requires a cert shouldn't be able to have the ownership transferred without a cert.

[kiwi535 538]

thats all well and good but the dealer may  not be aware that these problems exist .They are not all "experts"That does not absolve them of their responsibilties under cga.

 

[Herbmiester 923]

42 minutes ago, kiwi535 said:

thats all well and good but the dealer may  not be aware that these problems exist .They are not all "experts"That does not absolve them of their responsibilties under cga.

 

Quite correct, the car had no issues when sold that the dealer was aware of, an issue has arisen post the sale and the dealer has agreed to fix it. As per previous discussions if its a maintenance issue plugs coils (distinct possibility) then this is actually in the buyers benefit. If it a HPFP or injectors then even better as these are known failure items and this future proofs the car  to some extent. If its a dropped piston or similar then for sure get a refund.  

[kiwi535 538]

hmm if i was a dealer and someone came with a rod out the side or something i would be asking some very carefully worded questions...many times

[SteveArmy90 55]

I got it in writing from the dealer that if they fix it this time and it causes more trouble, they will refund me the money and take the car back. That's the compromise we ended up reaching. 

So after limping to Masterton, the car is in the workshop. I received a phone call from the friendly folks at Autosure just before. They want all documentation that I received from the mechanic. They think it was a pre-existing problem. I'll send them the PDF above. Could be quite a fight haha.  

As for 1000km being too far to be covered by a guarantee - 1000km is pretty achievable by 2 days of driving. I can drive 600km in my 90km/hr Kenworth in my 14hr timeslot easily. It would be pretty nasty to have a guarantee that barely got me home! ?

[SteveArmy90 55]

On 8/26/2018 at 5:04 PM, Herbmiester said:

I see this a bit differently. Firstly you bought an imported N54 vehicle. I am not sure if you are aware but these engines have issues. The engine itself is pretty sound and unlike an s54 and some V8 and v10 motors you wont have to replace the bearings. You will however have to do plugs and coils, (maintenance items) and possibly injectors and a charge pipe at some stage. This is just part of N54 ownership, if you weren't prepared for this then you haven't done your homework.  Looking at your description of the fault there is a chance its the plugs or the coil pack/s. If this is the case and the dealer will replace them then win to you. You have skipped a maintenance bill. If its the injector/s then even bigger win you will get another  50k or more (probably 100k) from the replacement . If its a faulty coil or injector then when one goes the others will follow pretty soon, so work a deal with the dealer to have all of them replaced, he may or may not but perhaps going halves would still be a good deal for you. When the basic faults and maintenance items are done on these engines then they are quite reliable, it does seem that Jap import N54s have fewer injector issues than US based cars, perhaps this is because of the better fuel in Japan.  

To me this is a 10 year old car with known faults/maintenance items if it turns out to be one of the above-mentioned items then its pretty typical of the breed, if its a high pressure fuel pump even bigger win to you if the dealer fixes it. Taking it back if its just a simple parts replacement is a bit of a waste of time, obviously you wanted the car and did some research and checked it out? It seems now that you have cold feet because of this but really you need to understand the fault first and then make an informed decision. If things like this put you off then with all due respect an N54 car may not be for you. 

I agree with you. I've only just realized there were two pages and have missed some of the comments. Yes I did my research about the Motor. I respect and appreciate that they are just simple maintenance items and that they will have needed to be replaced at some point.  Buying a 50,000km car and having it crap out on you the day after it left the lot does give you cold feet, and that, I guess, is why I pushed so hard to return it. I do realise that having it happen now is a win for me in terms of the dealer fixing it all. The mechanic at the workshop is really switched on and gives me confidence. Getting it in writing from the dealer that they will take it back is enough for me at the moment. Two weeks owning it and driving it three times isn't the best feeling! We'll see what happens at the other side of this repair

[B.M.W Ltd 950]

I can understand where Autosure is going with this. If the diagnostic check  was done properly with the right type of professional diagnostic tool, it should, will show the number of times the fault has occurred and the mileage the fault occurred. The records could also be stored in other control units if the fault effects them as well. If the faults have been cleared that information is now lost. No specialist would clear these without keeping a copy in PDF form to be able to go back on. We saved all of these to cover ourselves and to provide proof of repairs carried out. It's a process.... Diagnostic check saved, Clear fault codes saved, Road test till fault codes appear again save, report to owner. Carry out repairs, clear fault codes, road test, recheck and save.

Edited August 28, 2018 by B.M.W Ltd

[Cale 36]

For reference, I bought an E91 with the N54 in late January this year. Almost 2 months and ~1,600 km later the engine check light came on (ironically right around the corner from the dealer I bought the car from).

I had it towed to Auckland City BMW which was covered by mechanical insurance. They scanned it and it needed an ignition coil replaced.

In the meantime, I called the dealer I bought the car from, explained the issue, they got it picked up, taken to a mechanic (of their choice which admittedly made me a bit dubious) who proceeded to replace six coils and six spark plugs with OEM parts at the dealers expense.

You were definitely right in pushing for the reparation.

[SteveArmy90 55]

The workshop called today and informed me that the warranty refused to cover cost as some of the fault codes were logged before I bought it, making it a pre-existing fault. Haven't yet heard from the dealer. 

[Matth5 471]

So the dealer didn't check fault codes before selling... obviously didn't give it a proper check-up or service when they got it. That's really poor IMO. 

[KwS 2425]

2 hours ago, SteveArmy90 said:

The workshop called today and informed me that the warranty refused to cover cost as some of the fault codes were logged before I bought it, making it a pre-existing fault. Haven't yet heard from the dealer. 

Costs fall squarely onto the dealer then imo. A bit sh*t the warranty wont cover it, but those bastards will weasel out of anything they can.

[M3AN 4016]

As I said earlier, and I won't argue the point further, you shouldn't even be using your warranty.

This has the potential to go south fast, I hope it doesn't.

[zero 1162]

I agree with Dave.

This is nothing to do with the warranty - this is the dealers responsibility.

[Herbmiester 923]

What is actually wrong with the car?

 

[SteveArmy90 55]

7 hours ago, Herbmiester said:

What is actually wrong with the car?

 

2x injectors as far as I can tell. Unfortunately both in the same bank but the workshop is pushing for full replacement. The dealer was on board with that but I think that will change now that the dealer will have to front up. Like I say, I haven't heard from them.

@M3AN, tell me about it mate. The guy from the dealer said that he has the right to remedy it first. I've been that flat out that I haven't had time to look at the legislation to see if that's correct yet. 

[B.M.W Ltd 950]

I would be very careful what you do next. I suggest only a BMW dealer or specialist to carry out this repair. The injectors & locking elements are $600 ea and it's recommended that you replace all 6. The 135 also shows the fuel filter as being built into the high pressure fuel pump. Parts ordering by chassis number will reflect that is or isn't.. I would wait until you hear back from the dealer first and go from there. Is the Masterton repairer a BMW specialist ? You can pm or phone me if you like

[qube 3570]

Dave is 100% right. This has nothing to do with mechanical insurance (which is what the dealers try to sell you in order to cover their ass not yours).

"Fully serviced and ready to go" claimed by most dealerships usually means top up with any oil they have and cover it in greasy products all over the interior to make it sticky. and dont forget tyre shine!!

They obviously didnt do any kind of code reading checks or diagnostics. lol.. what a joke

[KwS 2425]

1 hour ago, qube said:

They obviously didnt do any kind of code reading checks or diagnostics. lol.. what a joke

If the car was running fine at the time of sale, why would they? Its not like they have a whole bunch of diagnostic scanners sitting around to find/make problems with cars they are selling, not to mention that if they can get away with selling a car thats running fine, without fixing a potential "historic" fault code, they will.

I think car dealers are scum, but you guys have an even more unrealistic view of them than i do.

[qube 3570]

I dont think they are scum, I think they just do their job (poorly).

What annoys me is they make claims about car being fully checked and serviced just to get sales but it actually means they did basically nothing if a basic scan is not included. 

 

[Gabe79 410]

It's all cost-benefit. They do nothing, and most cars don't come back. The few that come back, they give them a run around, and 'offer' to pay their MBI excess. It's a good gig, and probably costs them a lot less than it would cost them to have every car actually checked, and repaired, as needed. Worse case, they take the car back, refund the money, and sell the car again to the next sucker who comes along, without having done anything to the car, if they can get away with it.

[qube 3570]

^precisely right.

And that is the business model which unfortunately works in NZ because there are no or little penalties and people get a slap

 

[Gabe79 410]

That's true. Even when you get the disputes tribunal involved, in all likelihood, the best outcome will be to actually get your money refunded. I haven't seen the application of punitive fines in cases like this.

[KwS 2425]

The biggest problem is just how easy it is to become a registered car dealer, hence the increase in backyard "i work out of a shed to keep your costs lower" shady "dealers", with little to no accountability. The bigger dealers have their reputation to uphold, but there is nothing to stop these backyard dealers closing up shop in one name, starting a new name and selling the same old sh*t.

[qube 3570]

hmmmm