Herbmiester 923 Report post Posted July 30, 2019 I am very keen to do a manual swap on my E36 and have an M54 rotating assembly that I will likely try and make work. I also have an Getrag 220 pedals etc. I am wondering if the 220 will be ok for the torque of the M52B30 hybrid. What I would like to know is more about the ZF boxes. Consensus is they are stronger but what models fit? E36 328i S5D 320Z I assume will fit what about the S5 39 from the E46? Any other boxes that are worth a look? Also will both boxes work with an M20 single mass flywheel and clutch? f anyone has any bits mentioned here let me know. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Eagle 1662 Report post Posted July 30, 2019 All ZF's are essentialy the same. Both boxes can be used with any flywheel\clutch but i wouldnt use a std m20 clutch behind a 3.0l, m20 flywheel is only 220 vs 240 factory spec for M5x engines. ZF driveshaft is different, maybe the cross member I can't recall. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Herbmiester 923 Report post Posted July 30, 2019 25 minutes ago, Eagle said: All ZF's are essentialy the same. Both boxes can be used with any flywheel\clutch but i wouldnt use a std m20 clutch behind a 3.0l, m20 flywheel is only 220 vs 240 factory spec for M5x engines. ZF driveshaft is different, maybe the cross member I can't recall. Good info, whats the ideal flywheel? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
zero 1162 Report post Posted July 30, 2019 Go for a zf. Do it once, do it right. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Eagle 1662 Report post Posted July 30, 2019 4 hours ago, Herbmiester said: Good info, whats the ideal flywheel? Depends on what required i suppose. My old M20 setup was fine apart from the installer using the wrong release bearing causing poor pedal engagement, i did want to put much more power thru it than the stock M52 2.8L it was on so i went with the E46 M3 dual mass and M54 clutch setup to support the 3L. Ive never had any chatter from BMW factory single mass flywheels on any car and the car drove way better than it does now as it didnt have a self adjusting clutch (which i cant wait to wear out) 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Blackie 510 Report post Posted July 30, 2019 Getrag 220 will take M52 abuse all day long. Pair it with an aftermarket billet flywheel and stage 1 clutch. That will get you broke enough. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
emandru 17 Report post Posted July 31, 2019 On 7/30/2019 at 5:35 PM, Eagle said: Depends on what required i suppose. My old M20 setup was fine apart from the installer using the wrong release bearing causing poor pedal engagement, i did want to put much more power thru it than the stock M52 2.8L it was on so i went with the E46 M3 dual mass and M54 clutch setup to support the 3L. Ive never had any chatter from BMW factory single mass flywheels on any car and the car drove way better than it does now as it didnt have a self adjusting clutch (which i cant wait to wear out) I dont mean to high jack the thread but what short engagement problems did you have? Too high or too low? Do you remember what size release bearing you went with? To the OP, the cross member will also be different for the ZF if you decide to go that route. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Eagle 1662 Report post Posted July 31, 2019 Engagement point was just off the floor, clutch disc was starting to glaze at 10,000km from having to ride it to avoid stalling. I believe the taller E21 323i etc release bearing (15mm taller than std M20 one iirc) is the correct option to use to for correct pedal position. PO cut costs out\or was mislead and put a M20 setup in a E39 528i which is wrong on many levels, i just wanted the gearbox etc anyway. I sold the whole setup there was no way i was using a M20 clutch with M54 in a E39. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
modz 148 Report post Posted August 26, 2019 @Herbmiester The ZF behind M5x is perfect (that's what E46 manual 330i/330ci's had). In terms of clutch and flywheel, you have the NZAD setup which is $800-1200, or what I did which was an RHD Engineering flywheel (single mass, lightweight cromoly), e28 M5 'M30' clutch from FCPEuro and a matching pressure plate sourced locally. All up $900 ish. The M30 spec flywheel and clutch are the 240mm clutch size, rather than the smaller m20 210mm size. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
modz 148 Report post Posted August 26, 2019 Bigger question is getting the M54 to work in your E36.... M52B28 would save you a pile of headache, make similar power and still bolt up to the above clutch/gearbox Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Herbmiester 923 Report post Posted August 26, 2019 2 hours ago, modz said: Bigger question is getting the M54 to work in your E36.... M52B28 would save you a pile of headache, make similar power and still bolt up to the above clutch/gearbox Its a n M52 B30. M54 crank pistons rods in an m52 block. 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Blackie 510 Report post Posted August 26, 2019 I looked into this at one point but to be honest for the work involved (even doing it myself) it wasn't really worth the effort for 20 real world HP. Better to enjoy it stock or save for an M3 powerplant imho. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Herbmiester 923 Report post Posted August 27, 2019 (edited) 19 hours ago, Blackie said: I looked into this at one point but to be honest for the work involved (even doing it myself) it wasn't really worth the effort for 20 real world HP. Better to enjoy it stock or save for an M3 powerplant imho. I have all the parts so its just time and playing with engines is fun time in my books; and to be fair the parts cost is minuscule compared to what an S50 would cost. oh an I am stroking an M52B25 so much bigger potential gains. Edited August 27, 2019 by Herbmiester 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mad_Max 231 Report post Posted August 27, 2019 1 hour ago, Herbmiester said: I have all the parts so its just time and playing with engines is fun time in my books; and to be fair the parts cost is minuscule compared to what an S50 would cost. oh an I am stroking an M52B25 so much bigger potential gains. Basically what I have planned for one of mine too..... Thing to remember with the Getrag boxes is that the number is the theoretical "safe" amount of torque they can handle, so you'd be better off with a Getrag 250 over a 220. Having said that, I had a 220 in my 328i sedan (small mods, nothing super serious) and it withstood the abuse I gave it. Weak point was the M4X clutch which would occasionally slip. For a daily driver with the occasional abuse, the Getrag 250 box should be more than enough, gear ratios almost identical to the ZF, and they came factory in some E36's (I've pulled one from an early 325i, and there's one in my 316Ti). Clutch/flywheel combo I'll leave up to you as there's a stack out there that can be made to work, the only other thing to think about is your starter may actually need changed to suit the flywheel, and you'll want to swap to a manual diff ratio - assuming it's not a track car that is. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Herbmiester 923 Report post Posted August 28, 2019 8 hours ago, Mad_Max said: Basically what I have planned for one of mine too..... Thing to remember with the Getrag boxes is that the number is the theoretical "safe" amount of torque they can handle, so you'd be better off with a Getrag 250 over a 220. Having said that, I had a 220 in my 328i sedan (small mods, nothing super serious) and it withstood the abuse I gave it. Weak point was the M4X clutch which would occasionally slip. For a daily driver with the occasional abuse, the Getrag 250 box should be more than enough, gear ratios almost identical to the ZF, and they came factory in some E36's (I've pulled one from an early 325i, and there's one in my 316Ti). Clutch/flywheel combo I'll leave up to you as there's a stack out there that can be made to work, the only other thing to think about is your starter may actually need changed to suit the flywheel, and you'll want to swap to a manual diff ratio - assuming it's not a track car that is. Its a road car so yes diff ratio will change. Clutch seems easy but still unsure what flywheel to get but M30 seems like an option. I really feel I should replace the G220 but as I have one still tempted. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mad_Max 231 Report post Posted August 28, 2019 4 hours ago, Herbmiester said: Its a road car so yes diff ratio will change. Clutch seems easy but still unsure what flywheel to get but M30 seems like an option. I really feel I should replace the G220 but as I have one still tempted. Yep heap of options with the flywheel/clutch combo. If it was me, I'd chuck the 220 in for now, and drive it as you normally would. Change the fluid before you do lol. If it lasts, job done. If it starts making any noises or gives any troubles, then start hunting for a replacement, and it's then just an easy swap of the box, in and out within a day. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Herbmiester 923 Report post Posted September 3, 2019 What abot E46 boxes? I located a ZF 5 speed out of a E46 320D, will that work? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mad_Max 231 Report post Posted September 3, 2019 I'm pretty sure it will work, just make sure you get the shifter linkages and tailshaft. Someone may correct me if I'm wrong but think they will bolt straight in. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
zero 1162 Report post Posted September 4, 2019 E46 boxes will work, but I'm pretty sure that the diesel boxes are different. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HELLBM 1557 Report post Posted September 4, 2019 4 hours ago, Herbmiester said: What abot E46 boxes? I located a ZF 5 speed out of a E46 320D, will that work? Will bolt up ok and work if you stand the motor up by 15 degrees. great for turbo applications. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Herbmiester 923 Report post Posted September 4, 2019 21 minutes ago, HELLBM said: Will bolt up ok and work if you stand the motor up by 15 degrees. great for turbo applications. Thanks Ray, I wondered about that. I think I will pass on that box and continue to look for a ZF 310 or 320. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mad_Max 231 Report post Posted September 4, 2019 1 hour ago, HELLBM said: Will bolt up ok and work if you stand the motor up by 15 degrees. great for turbo applications. Can I ask why that is Ray? Is it for shifter or cross member mounts to line up properly? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HELLBM 1557 Report post Posted September 4, 2019 3 hours ago, Mad_Max said: Can I ask why that is Ray? Is it for shifter or cross member mounts to line up properly? Bolted to a M5X motor the diesel ZF will be on a 15 degree angle.Can be used with a custom crossmember and shifter linkage. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mad_Max 231 Report post Posted September 4, 2019 46 minutes ago, HELLBM said: Bolted to a M5X motor the diesel ZF will be on a 15 degree angle.Can be used with a custom crossmember and shifter linkage. Excellent, thanks Ray - just what I suspected but good to know for future reference. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
