Rollbar vs Rollcage

[elias 257]

Didn't want to derail the other thread so thought id start this here. Am considering putting a rollbar or roll cage into my 135i over summer. Was originally planning on just putting in a basic half cage to keep things simple but be able to use harnesses and have some more safety. however upon doing some research, it seems that there is absolutely no point in a half cage (or rollbar as msnz calls them) in a closed car.

If you want to take a passenger you need a roll cage, if you don't then in club sport events you don't need any form of cage or rollbar. If you want to do a rally event you need a full cage. 

So it seems pointless to go with a half cage/rollbar, either go full cage, bucket seats, harnesses, remove airbags etc then get a authority card or leave the car as is but maybe with some more supportive seats.

Any insight, recommendations or opinions are appreciated. 

Cheers 

[aja540i 1906]

They are all completely useless UNTIL SOMETHING GOES WRONG. safety shouldn't be about meeting minimum requirements it should be about doing as much as possible to prevent yourself dying. 

[Neal 546]

Full cage means Motorsport authority card and car can only be used for Motorsport events. But you all the protection needed offered by a full cage such as door bars and frontal protection.

Half cage means removing back set and certing car as front passenger only use.  But you can use car regularly such as Sunday drives. Down side it less protection.

Were it gets unclear is if you have a welded in rear section and bolt in front that attaches to welded in front anchor points. Some suggestion that this is a could be a good compromise between dedicated Motorsport car verse something that can also be used on the road.

Bolt in front obviously not as strong as welded in

[elias 257]

1 hour ago, aja540i said:

They are all completely useless UNTIL SOMETHING GOES WRONG. safety shouldn't be about meeting minimum requirements it should be about doing as much as possible to prevent yourself dying. 

this is a good point, I guess what I was saying was useless in the sense of what events you can participate in under msnz regulation, obviously even if not required, it doesn't hurt to have a half cage and the added safety that it provides

[elias 257]

1 hour ago, Neal said:

Full cage means Motorsport authority card and car can only be used for Motorsport events. But you all the protection needed offered by a full cage such as door bars and frontal protection.

Half cage means removing back set and certing car as front passenger only use.  But you can use car regularly such as Sunday drives. Down side it less protection.

Were it gets unclear is if you have a welded in rear section and bolt in front that attaches to welded in front anchor points. Some suggestion that this is a could be a good compromise between dedicated Motorsport car verse something that can also be used on the road.

Bolt in front obviously not as strong as welded in

right I see, I thought you were able to drive a motorsport car on public roads with an authority card since it allows you to obtain a WOF, provided that all modifications meet he required standards? 

So a fully caged motorsport car, with an authority card cannot be used for a sunday drive on public roads? This might be the deciding factor as I definitely want to be able to drive the car on public roads on weekends, as I won't be able to take it to a track every time I want to drive it.

cheers 

[Neal 546]

2 hours ago, elias said:

right I see, I thought you were able to drive a motorsport car on public roads with an authority card since it allows you to obtain a WOF, provided that all modifications meet he required standards? 

So a fully caged motorsport car, with an authority card cannot be used for a sunday drive on public roads? This might be the deciding factor as I definitely want to be able to drive the car on public roads on weekends, as I won't be able to take it to a track every time I want to drive it.

cheers 

This is my understanding so far so would pay to check.

I have a similar dilemma where I have a Mk1 Mini RCIS that has a full MANZ complaint cage. I want to use that car for street based Motorsport and the odd Sunday drive. I need to get the car through all the Cert regs and club sport regs to do both.

From what I can work out  I need to take a gas axe to the current cage, import an fia compliant bolt in cage but weld in the rear set , and feet for the nz regs.

But before I do so I’ll check in with MANZ and a certifier to see if this sounds possible.

 

 

 

 

[E30 325i Rag-Top 2963]

3 hours ago, elias said:

right I see, I thought you were able to drive a motorsport car on public roads with an authority card since it allows you to obtain a WOF, provided that all modifications meet he required standards? 

So a fully caged motorsport car, with an authority card cannot be used for a sunday drive on public roads? This might be the deciding factor as I definitely want to be able to drive the car on public roads on weekends, as I won't be able to take it to a track every time I want to drive it.

cheers 

You need to do at least two proper Motorsport events each year to maintain the authority card, ie prove car IS being used for Motorsport.

However, you CAN still drive the car on the road whenever you want. I dailied my E30 race car for many months on a authority card.

[dirtydoogle 383]

I've renewed 5 authority cards this year on cars that haven't moved since early 2020. It doesn't seem terribly strict at the mo 

 

If you do it, use proper cage padding. If you're involved in an incident on the road without a helmet on, the cage will watermelon your head 

[gofaster 101]

There is a heap of MSNZ technical Officers listed on MSNZ website under Contacts.

Suggest you give one (or more) of them a call to get the authoritive answer but my 2c is you can drive the car on the road with the Authority card other than to and from events.

Pretty sure you need to enter or have competed in 2 events p.a.to retain your card.

[jon dee 500]

On 8/11/2022 at 9:57 AM, elias said:

So it seems pointless to go with a half cage/rollbar, either go full cage, bucket seats, harnesses, remove airbags etc then get a authority card or leave the car as is but maybe with some more supportive seats.

The real question is how hard are you intending to drive the car ? To race at the front of the field you need to push yourself and your car to the limit = higher risk levels = more chance of a crash. In which case you should seriously consider building a racecar with a full cage and modified as you say above.

On the other hand, if you just want to have some fun and are quite happy dicing with someone further down the field, driving within your comfort zone and keeping your car straight, leave it as a road car. After all, cars are designed to provide a decent level of rollover protection. If you would like a little more security, keep your airbags and 3-point belts and install a rollbar. So long as your car is certed for all mods, has rego and WOF, you won't need an Authority Card and all the associated hassle. 

Least ways, that's how I interpret Schedule A – Driver & Vehicle Safety (Part 1) 

Personally I have never put a car on its roof, so I guess I just haven't tried hard enough  

Cheers...

[elias 257]

On 8/12/2022 at 7:04 PM, jon dee said:

The real question is how hard are you intending to drive the car ? To race at the front of the field you need to push yourself and your car to the limit = higher risk levels = more chance of a crash. In which case you should seriously consider building a racecar with a full cage and modified as you say above.

On the other hand, if you just want to have some fun and are quite happy dicing with someone further down the field, driving within your comfort zone and keeping your car straight, leave it as a road car. After all, cars are designed to provide a decent level of rollover protection. If you would like a little more security, keep your airbags and 3-point belts and install a rollbar. So long as your car is certed for all mods, has rego and WOF, you won't need an Authority Card and all the associated hassle. 

Least ways, that's how I interpret Schedule A – Driver & Vehicle Safety (Part 1) 

Personally I have never put a car on its roof, so I guess I just haven't tried hard enough  

Cheers...

This is a good way of looking at it, probably will never push the car too its absolute limit, as id prefer to keep it and myself in one piece, so a rollbar does sound like a good middle ground. The reason I was considering a full cage was mostly due to not being able to take a passenger as well as not being able to participate in certain events, however a full cage and authority card does seem excessive for the amount of times it will actually be required and for how (not) hard the car will be driven.

Seems like a rollbar is a better option than I had thought...

cheers