Recaro Seats - Safety Data

[Jacko 2078]

At my wits end trying to find certification data on late 2000 early 2010s Recaros (Sport DC/JCs), they are certified to a few standards, but I cant find anything more than a generic statement at the end of a catalogue... and a TUV cert which has them fitting into an E90 (not an E87, with different Recaro rails, as in my case). LVVC wont accept them for certification as stressed seats with the generic statement about all Recaro seats using Recaro rails comply (There is a webapp to match car/rails/seats, which aligns with what I have) 

Has anyone stumbled across anything? Have a contact? (Ive emailed Recaro without reply numerous times)... Im not far off calling Recaro Japans number and trying to remember my 4th form Japanese.

The legislation I need to comply with - 

LTSA 32004 2.3(2) The approved vehicle standards for seats and seat anchorages are:

(a) UN/ECE Regulation No. 17, Uniform provisions concerning the approval of vehicles with regard to the seats, their anchorages and any head restraints (E/ECE324-E/ECE/TRANS/505/Rev.1/Add.16);

(b) Council Directive of 22 July 1974 on the approximation of the laws of the Member States relating to the interior fittings of motor vehicles (strength of seats and their anchorages) (74/408/EEC);

(c) Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard No. 207, Seating Systems – Passenger Cars, Multipurpose Passenger Vehicles, Trucks, and Buses;

(d) Technical Standard for Seats and Seat Anchorages (Japan);

(e) Australian Design Rule 3/02, Seats and Seat Anchorages

LTSA 32004 2.3(2) The approved vehicle standards for seats and seat anchorages are:

(a) UN/ECE Regulation No. 17, Uniform provisions concerning the approval of vehicles with regard to the seats, their anchorages and any head restraints (E/ECE324-E/ECE/TRANS/505/Rev.1/Add.16);

(b) Council Directive of 22 July 1974 on the approximation of the laws of the Member States relating to the interior fittings of motor vehicles (strength of seats and their anchorages) (74/408/EEC);

(c) Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard No. 207, Seating Systems – Passenger Cars, Multipurpose Passenger Vehicles, Trucks, and Buses;

(d) Technical Standard for Seats and Seat Anchorages (Japan);

(e) Australian Design Rule 3/02, Seats and Seat Anchorages

 

Edited July 8, 2023 by Jacko

[aja540i 1896]

So you have documents from Recaro saying they meet 3 of the relevant standards and your LVVTA guy won't accept that, you need to ask him what proof he does need because it sounds like he's being a bit silly?

[KwS 2373]

Honestly, reading the Car Constructors Manual, which is what LVVTA uses, you might be pushing sh*t up hill trying to use aftermarket recaro rails in a stressed seat situation. You wouldnt need to prove the rails/seats meet the standards, you would need to prove the rails were factory fitment in a factory car as fitted by BMW.

I know my friend who did a similar thing to his corolla had to prove that the recaro rails he used were OEM toyota parts, as fitted to an OEM toyota (in this case, a Levin). This was helped by the rails having OEM toyota part numbers on them. If he changes seats to more modern recaros which have the newer bolt pattern, he has to change the rails and will need to put the buckles on the tunnel then.

Easiest solution is to mount he buckles to the tunnel with doubler plates and be done with it.

Edited July 8, 2023 by KwS

[Jacko 2078]

50 minutes ago, KwS said:

Honestly, reading the Car Constructors Manual, which is what LVVTA uses, you might be pushing sh*t up hill trying to use aftermarket recaro rails in a stressed seat situation. You wouldnt need to prove the rails/seats meet the standards, you would need to prove the rails were factory fitment in a factory car as fitted by BMW.

I know my friend who did a similar thing to his corolla had to prove that the recaro rails he used were OEM toyota parts, as fitted to an OEM toyota (in this case, a Levin). This was helped by the rails having OEM toyota part numbers on them. If he changes seats to more modern recaros which have the newer bolt pattern, he has to change the rails and will need to put the buckles on the tunnel then.

Easiest solution is to mount he buckles to the tunnel with doubler plates and be done with it.

LVVT Rules say if meet the above, doesnt need to be OEM, the rails/seats were designed to be stressed seat. Id rather put factory seats back in than chop up the tunnel. 

[elias 230]

11 hours ago, Jacko said:

LVVT Rules say if meet the above, doesnt need to be OEM, the rails/seats were designed to be stressed seat. Id rather put factory seats back in than chop up the tunnel. 

I went through a similar process recently getting my Sparco seats certified. Impossible to find an engineers report for the parts I used so I drilled 2 holes into the transmission tunnel and used lvv doubler plates. Bit of a tedious job, but looks very tidy in the end. Only other thing I could think of is to see if maybe you could find an engineering consulting business in NZ that could take a look at the parts you are using and see if they would be willing to write a report attesting to the strength of the rails? Out of curiosity which cert guy are you going through?

[Eagle 1522]

That why i just replace mine with the factory seat for the WOF. The base mount\sliders are specially designed for the vehicle by a reputable company and that all i care about.

[Jacko 2078]

It passed a VTNZ wof with them in  

[Jacko 2078]

I can 100% see why people dont bother with certs. This is like pulling teeth, when it should be easy. 

Edited July 17, 2023 by Jacko

[Driftit 1945]

Yup. Building up some patience to attempt it once again on the wife's S13. After drilling holes all through the floor to add driveshaft hoops, seat mounts, belt mounts. Removing suspension that isn't branded even though it's superior quality to the sh*t that does pass. Standard brakes that the certifier doesn't like the feel of.. 

Its got to be designed so you give up right? 

Edited July 17, 2023 by Driftit

[Jacko 2078]

Meanwhile a Nissan Tiida can drive around with its roof caved in, front guards falling off and bumper held on with masking tape without an issue. Great system, works well. 

 

 

[KwS 2373]

2 hours ago, Jacko said:

Meanwhile a Nissan Tiida can drive around with its roof caved in, front guards falling off and bumper held on with masking tape without an issue. Great system, works well. 

 

 

You know you're talking about two different system 🙄 Roadworthy inspection =/= modification certification

Yes, certs can be hard. Based on some of the utter shite inspectors are presented with, it needs to be. Just be thankful there is even a road to legal modifications here.

[Jacko 2078]

Taken a month of pulling teeth, but think Ive gotten somewhere. Got in touch with recaros Marketing Manager in the US, who got in touch with the VP of Recaro Japan.. and things happened. 

All the Recaro minions, like Recaro Aussie rep, were much less than what would be considered helpful.

Documentation with the cert man... hopefully I have an LVV cert shortly. 

[MarcNaz 0]

Any progress on cert.?

[M3AN 4015]

3 hours ago, MarcNaz said:

Any progress on cert.?