gjm 3258 Report post Posted August 18, 2023 Lovely car. How would we go about proving, indisputably, that a given example is a genuine M325i ? (In the absence of original paperwork.) The spec can be extrapolated from the VIN, but 'just' having the bodykit, M-Sport parts, suspension, 15" BBS rims and so on does not necessarily a M325i make. Documentation from dealers is scant, at best, assuming it still exists. Being able to categorically say a given car is a M325i is probably only important at sale time as they do command a premium over other well-specified E30s. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Neil McCauley 394 Report post Posted August 18, 2023 Not really sure I understand the question? Should be fairly black and white - if the spec sheet has option code 333 for an mt1, and 335 for an mt2 it's an m325i. All of the m325i goodies were also a either factory option, or available as dealer retrofit aside from one, which is the black headliner - it wasn't even listed as an option if you run the vin of an m325i, so if it's got the headliner, you can be fairly sure you're looking at the genuine article. 3 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
C-130 Hercules 570 Report post Posted August 18, 2023 ... And you can always email BMW Classic [email protected] 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gjm 3258 Report post Posted August 18, 2023 2 hours ago, Neil McCauley said: Not really sure I understand the question? Should be fairly black and white - if the spec sheet has option code 333 for an mt1, and 335 for an mt2 it's an m325i. All of the m325i goodies were also a either factory option, or available as dealer retrofit aside from one, which is the black headliner - it wasn't even listed as an option if you run the vin of an m325i, so if it's got the headliner, you can be fairly sure you're looking at the genuine article. Code 333 is for 'Light Alloy Wheels Star-Spoke Style 105 With Mixed Tyres.' It doesn't denote a 'M325i' - as I understood (I could well be wrong!) the M325i was not a BMW factory car. It was a NZ dealer special created from selected parts, in response to the M3 not being sold here. As such, no amount of factory-original VIN decoding is likely to help. However, the car I'm helping with has: S333 Light Alloy Wheels Star-Spoke Style 105 With Mixed Tyres S339 Shadow-Line S704 M Sports Suspension S708 M Sports Steering Wheel Leather It also has the other options associated with a M325i, including: S481 Sports Seat S209 Differential Lock 25% Most telling (for me) though is a VIN decode 'feature' which appears common to all M325i cars: S333 Light Alloy Wheels Star-Spoke Style 105 With Mixed Tyres S288 BMW Light Alloy Wheel, Cross Spoke 29 S311 Light-Alloy Wheels Star-Spoke Style 69 Brilliant Note that the M-Tech bodykit is not mentioned in the VIN decode as (again, as I have understood) this was dealer-fitted in NZ as a part of the M325i spec. It could also have been ordered from te factory but was typically not a feature of the M325i cars. The black headliner is an interesting one. 👍 I'll check on that. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gjm 3258 Report post Posted August 18, 2023 2 hours ago, C-130 Hercules said: ... And you can always email BMW Classic [email protected] Not sure they'll be able to help as if the M325i was a NZ-only (dealer-prepared) car they are unlikely to have any relevant info. (Let's not get mixed up with the 325i Sport!) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Neil McCauley 394 Report post Posted August 18, 2023 (edited) @gjm The NZ m325i was definitely a factory car - the black headliner was never an E30 option, so it could never have been a dealer-prepared. Option codes have shifted over the years, what was an option code back in 1990 might come up as something different in 2023. Here's a pricelist from '89 for reference. Also for reference here are most of the E30 option codes: 199 - Equipment for leaded fuel 200 - Catalytic convertor 206 - 5spd sport transmission 209 - LSD (25%) 215 - Power steering 222 - Electronic damper control 225 - Sports suspension 240 - Leather steering wheel 270 - Audiosystem US 286 - 14” Weaves 288 - 15” Weaves 289 - 16” M3 Weaves 296 - TD-LM/200/60x365 300 - Central locking 301 - Alarm system 308 - Locking glovebox 311 - Electric passenger mirror 314 - Heated washer nozzles / Drivers door lock 320 - Badge delete 326 - Rear spoiler delete 330 - Japan Sport Pack 333 - M Technic sport pack (M-Tec I) 335 - M Technic sport pack (M-tec II) 339 - Shadowline 350 - Green tinted glass 351 - Brown tinted glass 354 - Green stripe windscreen 359 - Visibility pack 361 - Hinged rear windows 400 - Manual sunroof 401 - Electric sunroof 410 - Electric windows, front (coupe) 411 - Electric windows all round (4dr) 415 - Sunblind for rear window 423 - Velour floor mats 428 - Warning triangle 464 - Ski bag 481 - Front sport seats 494 - Seat heating 497 - Centre arm rest in rear 498 - Rear head rests 500 - Headlight wash system 510 - Headlight beam throw control 520 - Foglights 530 - Air conditioning 535 - Electronic temperature control 540 - Cruise Control 545 - Tachometer / kph speedo 548 - KPH speedo 551 - OBC II with remote control 562 - Map reading lights 570 - Stronger electricity supply 675 - Premium audio 680 - Holder for aluminium cases (?) 681 - Roof antenna (M3) 682 - Automatic antenna 687 - Radio preparation 690 - Cassette holder 704 - M Technic suspension 708 - M Technic II Steering wheel 728 - Edition ZV 750 - Basis for comprehensive edition 790 - M3 Evolution (M3) 792 - Small Motorsport package (M3 Evo II) 795 - Special Model 89 (M3 Ravaglia) 804 - Switzerland version 806 - NZ preparation / 3rd stop light 807 - Japan preparation 810 - Australia preparation 812 - England version 813 - France version 814 - Italy version 819 - Spain version 823 - Hot climate version 827 - Scandinavia version 829 - Convertible conversion preparation 850 - Fuel added for export 853 - Language version English 854 - Language version French 855 - Language version Italian 856 - Language version Spanish 860 - LTRL TURN SIGNAL LIGHT FRT 899 - Export vehicle 915 - Only conserves soil? 925 - Shipping protection package 945 - “Captivating. PRICE dependencies” BERUECKS. PREISABHAENGIGKEIT (press pack?) Edited August 18, 2023 by Neil McCauley Spelling 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sammo 2542 Report post Posted August 18, 2023 I can’t imagine there are many NZ New Mtech 2 manual 2 doors with black headliner kicking about and if there are, no doubt Bimmersport knows about them. Eg the reshelled Schwarz one for sale currently. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
darren_mk 61 Report post Posted August 18, 2023 13 hours ago, gjm said: Not sure they'll be able to help as if the M325i was a NZ-only (dealer-prepared) car they are unlikely to have any relevant info. (Let's not get mixed up with the 325i Sport!) What is everyone's opinion on the differences between a UK 325i Sport and a NZ new M325i? I am from the UK and assumed the Sport was essentially the same as a NZ M325i - just a name difference? and as stated the best way to tell is a black headliner. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sammo 2542 Report post Posted August 19, 2023 2 hours ago, darren_mk said: What is everyone's opinion on the differences between a UK 325i Sport and a NZ new M325i? I am from the UK and assumed the Sport was essentially the same as a NZ M325i - just a name difference? and as stated the best way to tell is a black headliner. Same car essentially - same as Australian 325is. But not NZ new obviously - and I think UK sports and 325is came in autos which was not the case for the M325i. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Palazzo 476 Report post Posted August 19, 2023 4 hours ago, Sammo said: I can’t imagine there are many NZ New Mtech 2 manual 2 doors with black headliner kicking about and if there are, no doubt Bimmersport knows about them. Eg the reshelled Schwarz one for sale currently. Don’t they all have black headliners if they are m325is? Or am I misunderstanding your question? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sammo 2542 Report post Posted August 19, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, Palazzo said: Don’t they all have black headliners if they are m325is? Or am I misunderstanding your question? Correct - I mean if it’s one that’s been retrofitted with one, the Bimmersport hive mind (or @Neil McCauley) may already be aware of it. Edited August 19, 2023 by Sammo 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Neil McCauley 394 Report post Posted August 19, 2023 UK Sport has the close(r) ratio 260/5 gearbox with shorter ratios between 1st and 3rd gears: G260 - 3.83 / 2.04 / 1.34 G260/5 - 3.72 / 2.02 / 1.32 The UK Sport wasn't available as an auto. @Palazzo I assume @Sammo meant NZ new mt2 coupes WITHOUT the black headliner. Team McMillan had a red one for sale back in 2001 for $16,995 but they wouldn't take my 60K mile Jaguar Sovereign on trade 😂 can't remember the rego though... I have a sneaking suspicion it was the zinnobar one recently for sale. 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
darren_mk 61 Report post Posted August 19, 2023 Hi Neil, so the NZ new M325i only had the ‘standard’ G260? I can remember the difference in the ‘boxes was quite noticeable when driving. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sammo 2542 Report post Posted August 19, 2023 1 hour ago, Neil McCauley said: UK Sport has the close(r) ratio 260/5 gearbox with shorter ratios between 1st and 3rd gears: G260 - 3.83 / 2.04 / 1.34 G260/5 - 3.72 / 2.02 / 1.32 The UK Sport wasn't available as an auto. @Palazzo I assume @Sammo meant NZ new mt2 coupes WITHOUT the black headliner. Team McMillan had a red one for sale back in 2001 for $16,995 but they wouldn't take my 60K mile Jaguar Sovereign on trade 😂 can't remember the rego though... I have a sneaking suspicion it was the zinnobar one recently for sale. This is some preposterous knowledge dropping! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Neil McCauley 394 Report post Posted August 19, 2023 Bored on a Saturday night, crunched the colour numbers of MT2 still on the road in NZ: 6 Lachsilber 11 Diamantschwarz 4 Alpinweiss 2 Delphingrau ( @Palazzo is your old one still on the road?) 1 Zinnoberrot 5 Sterlingsilber 4 Brilliantrot UK Sports: 1 Lachs / 2 DS / 1 AW / 1 Delphin / 1 Brilliantrot (C2 2.5 Alpina) / 1 Granitesilber. Japan Mtechnic 325i's - 2 or 3 so far. There will be more, and there are plenty that have been written off. 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gjm 3258 Report post Posted August 19, 2023 6 minutes ago, Neil McCauley said: Bored on a Saturday night, crunched the colour numbers of MT2 still on the road in NZ: ... If you're still bored, could you do the same for MTech 1 cars? I think these were only built in 1986 and 1987. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Neil McCauley 394 Report post Posted August 19, 2023 (edited) 3 (4) Polaris kiwi new in '86 5 Lachs 5 Diamant (one not registered until '89) Can't find any NZ new Delphin UK Sports: 2 Delphin / 2 Diamant / 3 Lachs Edited August 19, 2023 by Neil McCauley 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Palazzo 476 Report post Posted August 19, 2023 10 hours ago, Neil McCauley said: Bored on a Saturday night, crunched the colour numbers of MT2 still on the road in NZ: 6 Lachsilber 11 Diamantschwarz 4 Alpinweiss 2 Delphingrau ( @Palazzo is your old one still on the road?) 1 Zinnoberrot 5 Sterlingsilber 4 Brilliantrot UK Sports: 1 Lachs / 2 DS / 1 AW / 1 Delphin / 1 Brilliantrot (C2 2.5 Alpina) / 1 Granitesilber. Japan Mtechnic 325i's - 2 or 3 so far. There will be more, and there are plenty that have been written off. Happily sitting in my dads garage, having just had a new(er) LSD fitted. 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
e30ftw 410 Report post Posted August 20, 2023 I bought a diamantschwarz m325i as a parts car about 10 years ago. Interior was in parts, body had a fair amount of rust. Probably would have been worth saving in hindsight considering the condition of e30s these days 😆 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gjm 3258 Report post Posted August 23, 2023 I have some pics of the car in question, and it is for sale. This was entirely an attempt to ensure that if it were to be described as a M325i in any advertising, that the car would in fact be a M325i. It has a black headlining. I'm not the seller of the car, but have been sent some pics. I'm waiting for contact details for the seller before listing it - depending on what the seller wants to do, contact may be via me, or may be direct to the current owner. However, until that is sorted, I'll sit tight. It's not a fabulous, minty-fresh, unmolested example as some changes have been made over the years, but pricing will reflect that. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sammo 2542 Report post Posted August 24, 2023 17 hours ago, gjm said: I have some pics of the car in question, and it is for sale. This was entirely an attempt to ensure that if it were to be described as a M325i in any advertising, that the car would in fact be a M325i. It has a black headlining. I'm not the seller of the car, but have been sent some pics. I'm waiting for contact details for the seller before listing it - depending on what the seller wants to do, contact may be via me, or may be direct to the current owner. However, until that is sorted, I'll sit tight. It's not a fabulous, minty-fresh, unmolested example as some changes have been made over the years, but pricing will reflect that. Whats the colour, out of interest? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gjm 3258 Report post Posted August 24, 2023 2 hours ago, Sammo said: Whats the colour, out of interest? (Another) Diamant-Schwarz. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites