BMW 1991 e30 M3 pricing for NZ?

[beemwr 46]

How do you know what value to place on these cars in N Z?

This one rolled off the production line 20/11/1990, among the last batch made I understand,

BMW Germany had it sent to Hartge Gemany to convert to RHD. It was then despatched for the CEO of Baron's  in the  .

It was first registered in UK as RHD. I've heard Claytons BMW Auckland had done some for a few new owners in N Z.

This week it's up for WOF & week after that available for a new owner perhaps to drive away and turn  the100,000 miles milestone.

It is not a Evo Model but it was fitted with a 158 kW powered engine.

So folks what pricing would one expect from a willing buyer offer to a willing seller?

[balancerider 756]

Less than an LHD one. No one is dailying these anymore and the pool of buyers for a 50k + weekend car is pretty small.

I'd say 55-60k if you had to sell.

[leonf 162]

I reckon the value would be condition-specific.   ie,,,,,,,,if it's in stunning condition it'll be worth more than average condition.  Also, if you had proof that the rhd conversion was done by Hartge to me anyways, that would add to its value.  If it's in great nick and the Hartge thing verified I reckon somewhere in the $60's (maybe even $70k) should be a goer.   Oh, and a rarer colour is good, too.

[Sammo 2544]

Very hard to say - only one I've seen for sale on Trade Me that was in the $60k range (who knows if any of the $100k plus asking ones have sold, and for what behind closed doors?) was that yellow one a few years back with the wrong interior and fibreglass bits, desparate for TLC.

Given the market for toys, if you really have to sell it your expecations would need to be realistic.

If its a minter, get some horny photos, put it on Collecting Cars and roll the dice?

An Australian (Ex Auckland car) 1987 LHD one with 120km sold for $120k a few days ago - a few of us will have seen this one in the flesh - very nice, tastefully modified.

https://collectingcars.com/for-sale/1987-bmw-e30-m3-16

 

Edited March 27 by Sammo

[Neil McCauley 394]

Quote

No one is dailying these anymore and the pool of buyers for a 50k + weekend car is pretty small.

Yep... The next glut of E30 M3's to market will be estate sales...

There could be an argument to be made for market saturation, where everyone who had their rose tinted nostalgia goggles on has already gone out and imported an M3. Case in point - there's some 30% more M3's in NZ than there are MT2's now...

Looking at it objectively: colour / interior / period correct mods will all factor into a potential purchasers decision making process, and that's even before you get into the weeds about US spec / Japan CR/OD gearbox spec etc etc. If you've got that much money to spend then you can also probably afford to wait for the spec you want to come up for sale. And for those sorts of buyers, RHD is a no-no word. Suspect there is also a fair few off books transactions taking place, so true market pricing might be slightly different to what people are asking.

 

 

[beemwr 46]

Yeah, I have owned an 1986 LHD us spec & this one RHD. I use my discretionary money buying cars I couldn't afford in yesteryear.

 

Someone cleverer than me could advise whether I am correct in buying cars that I couldn't afford in yesteryear but now have my discretionary money for this. I like to look at 'my money' in the garage,  if you ask your bank to, 'show me my money,' they can't physically show you even a small gold bar,' That said,  are these collectable, gain value and an investment?

I have to say I prefer the RHD for driving these sport style cars on NZ roading. Used LHD for driving to track and home. From, personal preference I choose RHD every time.

[E30 325i Rag-Top 2956]

@beemwr for anything more than a rough estimate more of a description and detailed pictures would be required.

I’m happy to give you my 2c if you want to send more info to me, I could even be interested in the car.

The $55-60k range would be the bottom end of the market for a running, driveable example that is mostly original with its S14, interior, etc.

Aussie auctions are not the best comparison as figures there tend to be higher as it is Sooo hard to get older cars imported so it’s much more limited supply.

Week-end toy market is pretty slow at the moment, but provided you don’t need to sell in a hurry you should still get a good market price on an E30 M3 as they are still in demand.

[beemwr 46]

On 3/26/2024 at 9:41 PM, balancerider said:

Less than an LHD one. No one is dailying these anymore and the pool of buyers for a 50k + weekend car is pretty small.

I'd say 55-60k if you had to sell.

One person's meat is another person's poison. From talking with but a few localised LHD e30 M3 owners 75% would like the RHD experience. The Pro/Cons RhD:  if euro the dogleg box is set up for lhd & ease of gear selection; a track test of several  race drivers on a right hand UK track av. 3/10ths quicker in the left hand raceprepped  car but not conclusive as all drivers were.quicker (Was it the horse or was it the rider stuff). On rh race track driving a rhd car u see though the corner better, especially on NZ Roading Engineers factor that in. Entering fast flowing traffic easeful in RHD. Living in NZ RHD is safer & ease of entering traffic & overtaking equally less stressful, So when in Rome drive LHD, when in NZ drive RHD,  safety first,

[beemwr 46]

On 3/30/2024 at 6:46 PM, E30 325i Rag-Top said:

@beemwr for anything more than a rough estimate more of a description and detailed pictures would be required.

I’m happy to give you my 2c if you want to send more info to me, I could even be interested in the car.

The $55-60k range would be the bottom end of the market for a running, driveable example that is mostly original with its S14, interior, etc.

Aussie auctions are not the best comparison as figures there tend to be higher as it is Sooo hard to get older cars imported so it’s much more limited supply.

Week-end toy market is pretty slow at the moment, but provided you don’t need to sell in a hurry you should still get a good market price on an E30 M3 as they are still in demand.

Thanks Jon

  Yeah, to sell in UK , I have a few friends there, tell me mine would fetch near the NZ$200,000. Shipping, insurance etc can be the nightmare though.

[balancerider 756]

11 hours ago, beemwr said:

One person's meat is another person's poison. From talking with but a few localised LHD e30 M3 owners 75% would like the RHD experience.

No doubt if you were buying it to drive in NZ RHD would be preferable but the reality is the vast majority of these are collectors cars now and no one from Europe / the US wants a converted RHD car, decreasing the value accordingly.

[beemwr 46]

The theme so far from 'our inhouse' experts seems to suggest RHD cars although rare are not favoured as an investment car.

- A pricing bracket in the $60-80k range perhaps,  even to $120k

- there maybe a glut of them now & in the future

My reaction so far is maybe keep it as my 'my personal car of interest' 

* sell my other 'cars of interest' i.e. 1971 2002 s42 engined ; 1986 e30 325i Targa Car; 1988 e28 525ea;2002 Reno 225 F1

* keep: 2019 Triton GLXr ute daily; 1991 e30 318is - his favourite; 1990 e30 318ia - hers daily; 1991 e30 M3 - car of interest

 

[M3AN 4016]

I don't think it's about whether it's RHD or not, I think it's whether it's factory spec or not.

 

[beemwr 46]

On 4/2/2024 at 9:49 PM, M3AN said:

I don't think it's about whether it's RHD or not, I think it's whether it's factory spec or not.

 

I concur Dave.There is also a rarity  element too l suspect.

[E30 325i Rag-Top 2956]

On 4/2/2024 at 9:49 PM, M3AN said:

I don't think it's about whether it's RHD or not, I think it's whether it's factory spec or not.

From the E30 M3 forum views it’s probably a bit of both. As with all collector vehicles the originality of the car has a big influence on desirability.

The other aspect with the E30 M3 in particular goes back to the reasons the company gave for not offering the car in RHD at the time - it would affect both engine performance due to header design and the balance of handling from the weight distribution. Which can be read as LHD good RHD bad, influencing desirability to this day with some prospective buyers.

[beemwr 46]

13 minutes ago, E30 325i Rag-Top said:

From the E30 M3 forum views it’s probably a bit of both. As with all collector vehicles the originality of the car has a big influence on desirability.

The other aspect with the E30 M3 in particular goes back to the reasons the company gave for not offering the car in RHD at the time - it would affect both engine performance due to header design and the balance of handling from the weight distribution. Which can be read as LHD good RHD bad, influencing desirability to this day with some prospective buyers.

*the LHD emphasis was probably chasing the American market. I did know those figures, need refres to quote here.

* corner weighting racing cars solves balance issue

*the steering plumbing was blamed for 3tenth second difference for RHD

[Neil McCauley 394]

Looks like a really honest example Beemwr! Definitely not a garage queen, and I mean that in the nicest possible way.

You could always sell the 318iS if it happens to be Brilliantrot...

[beemwr 46]

16 hours ago, Neil McCauley said:

Looks like a really honest example Beemwr! Definitely not a garage queen, and I mean that in the nicest possible way.

You could always sell the 318iS if it happens to be Brilliantrot...

This car has the patina of time & use, to quote the latest vernacular, Neil. The US Collector auction circuit gives unmolested older cars a premium showing a bit of patina. Anal perfectionist examples are taking a hit.

Yeah had two 318is a few years back,  one was Brilliantrot. Had to tell a prospective Japanese buyer to cancel his flight over because the apprentice that serviced it when new snapped it up. Yeah,  my favourite BMW model, a very balanced car to cross the Central Plateau in. Mine has a Henry Ford T colour.

[beemwr 46]

OK, the e30 M3 is back home, Mileage is 99,668 miles.

If I decide to keep I would install an electric fan, but keep the original.

Thought is to do another NZ top-to-bottom road trip, which would take it over that ton miles.

Yeah, heart-to-head decision.

Edited August 27 by beemwr
Professional valuation & expectation much higher,

[Bandit 194]

3 hours ago, beemwr said:

OK, the e30 M3 is back home, Mileage is 99,668 miles.

If I decide to keep I would install an electric fan, but keep the original.

Thought is to do another NZ top-to-bottom road trip, which would take it over that ton miles.

Yeah, heart-to-head decision.

Yeah $99,000 to a new keeper to drive away,.

Good luck with a sale at that price. The global market is saturated with special interest cars for sale, a quick look at Bring a Trailer, and Collecting Cars auction sees a mounting list of brands going RNM. The cars for sale to willing buyers ratio is well adrift, and a good time to buy if something takes your fancy. And most seem to have been acquired when the market was strong, on the back of the Covid surge.

"Buy a classic car it's an investment........."  the listings read, Yes, right 😮

This writer believes the market is far from reaching the bottom of the bell curve, so hold on for a stormy ride.

[beemwr 46]

6 hours ago, Bandit said:

Good luck with a sale at that price. The global market is saturated with special interest cars for sale, a quick look at Bring a Trailer, and Collecting Cars auction sees a mounting list of brands going RNM. The cars for sale to willing buyers ratio is well adrift, and a good time to buy if something takes your fancy. And most seem to have been acquired when the market was strong, on the back of the Covid surge.

"Buy a classic car it's an investment........."  the listings read, Yes, right 😮

This writer believes the market is far from reaching the bottom of the bell curve, so hold on for a stormy ride.

 

[beemwr 46]

Yeah, the world at large has ebbs & flows, old cars probalbly do to, The' haves & have nots', i.e. the rich & the poor, the gap may widen. The rich have the problem of where to place their surplus money: in the bank - for what; stocks & shares- for when; buy seashore or hillside property - for how long. Leaves old cars with the arts & antiques. For some an old car in the shed that had appeal will still have appeal, can be viewed, even caressed or used for pleasure.  Mmm history will only be able to tell.where an old car will be.... 

[E30 325i Rag-Top 2956]

On 6/3/2024 at 10:33 AM, beemwr said:

OK, the e30 M3 is back home, Mileage is 99,668 miles.

If I decide to keep I would install an electric fan, but keep the original.

Thought is to do another NZ top-to-bottom road trip, which would take it over that ton miles.

Yeah, heart-to-head decision.

Yeah $99,000 to a new keeper to drive away,.

GLWS. The market for week-end toys is pretty stuffed at the moment, but there are still a few discerning buyers out there. However, they do tend to drive a hard bargain at the moment as they know they are in the driving seat negotiations wise.

Worst case you may have to hold on to it for a while, which is no bad thing right?

[beemwr 46]

Yes Jon, didn't that great writer say, 'To Sell or Not to sell , that is the question.?'

Someone, of lesser fame, told me once, if u keep ur sale as a secret it probably will not sell.

;People with the coin pick up on opportunities.

Yeah', when containers become avaiilable I have another car to cram in which makes that mor viable.