i3 Purchase

[rod_r 11]

I’m considering an i3.

I would go with a BEV but I have to make a few trips a year to Hamilton from Auk, so would probably have to settle on a Rex.

The whole battery replacement question has not been answered as far as I can see, so am a bit uneasy about it considering I’d be buying the 60ah or 94ha which are now 7-10 year old cars with 50-100k.

Appreciate any insights

[Danch 33]

 I don't own one but I've been following an i3 owner on Instagram, and he's car had a failed motor control unit or something. The repair bill was more than what the car's worth so he decided to scrap the car. It happened at 80,000km or so. 

I've also heard some horror stories about how the AC unit can fail and inject debris into the entire refrigerant line, which will eventually need to be fully stripped and replaced. 

They are pretty cool cars but I wouldn't own one without any mechanical warranty.. just my 2c.

[balancerider 736]

I am also in the market (likely not for Rex version as would be round town) and it appears the REX is the most common thing to go wrong.

Tires are expensive ($500 a corner) and apparently prone to punctures. Battery chemistry is much better than a leaf and has active cooling. The aircon grenading appears to be an issue mainly in very hot climates (e.g. southern Cali) where it's cranking for 8 months of the year. Probably not such an issue in NZ. They are great to drive and pretty efficient (good range given small battery). Rear doors are a bit niggly if used often.

[rod_r 11]

I guess any European car 7-10 years old is a crap shoot. Reading and watching on line, seems people are overwhelmingly positive about them 

[Jun 232]

On 6/26/2024 at 10:04 PM, rod_r said:

I guess any European car 7-10 years old is a crap shoot. Reading and watching on line, seems people are overwhelmingly positive about them 

I suggest to look at current BEV, for the money you are spending it is much better than an old I3. BEV are not as cheap as before, RUC except is gone. I have to drive a BEV in order to afford to drive a S85 V10 😅 But to be honest after using  EV, it’s definitely different and there are positive experiences. You still get free charging on restaurants and hotels. Car is precondition, always ready, destination is set as it looks at my calendar, etc.It is definitely best transportation, then just use the M5 if I want to drive.

[balancerider 736]

@Jun $20k + buys a lot of RUC / charging. A small car is quite desirable if you do a lot of town running and that basically doesn’t exist otherwise. Leaf is a class bigger and byd / stellantis are still $35k

[Jun 232]

31 minutes ago, balancerider said:

@Jun $20k + buys a lot of RUC / charging. A small car is quite desirable if you do a lot of town running and that basically doesn’t exist otherwise. Leaf is a class bigger and byd / stellantis are still $35k

For me what probably more important is the efficiency bigger priority, unless you actually need the small compact size.  Ironically Tesla's are still the most efficient, Model Y will use less watts/km than a Leaf (I don't know about I3).  This practically means my electricity plan can charge our car and house within the $0 hours 7kw x 3 hours.  If we get an inefficient BEV that means running cost will be higher, if I can't fill in 21kw of power.  You can get older Model 3 for low $30k which is one of most efficient cars, since you get OTA its practically has the same features as a new one.  Minus some hardware limits, like low visual display and/or matrix lights.

That said I do miss the BMW more traditional driving dynamics, the 2 turn lock to lock is ridiculous for a Model Y.  Ok for Model 3.  So the M5 feels less pointy than our daily driver, also the suspension is stiffer on the Model Y than comfort setting on M5.  My brain just sometimes can't comprehend these things.  I would have taken the i4 and sacrifice the space/packaging, last generation battery for some softer suspension and more feeling seats... but the price difference is just ridiculous ($40k difference 2 years ago, now $60k).  In fact some of these are addressed with bucket seats and adjustable suspension of the latest Model 3 performance which just cost $85k new, faster than announced M5 G90 🙄

I don't want this be a debate of Tesla vs BMW, just more of look at some practical stuff.  Even though my heart is not in our daily, I can't really fault it.  It does the daily duties really well for its price.  For me to be honest my 3 car garage dream will be:  M5 E60 (already there), X5 45e G05 (too expensive) and 750i E38 stealth convert to EV drivetrain (drawing board, unlikely to get past that). 

[rod_r 11]

Part of the appeal of the i3 is the look. ( same foe Honda e )

I prefer that an ev looks like an ev.

i struggle to get excited for the ev’s  that look like any other car.

[Jun 232]

14 minutes ago, rod_r said:

Part of the appeal of the i3 is the look. ( same foe Honda e )

I prefer that an ev looks like an ev.

i struggle to get excited for the ev’s  that look like any other car.

yes I agree.  Also got excited about Honda-e when it was announced, but alas the technical underpinnings was a bit poor.  The microlino is the car that I really really like... I wish it will be sold here and the price would go down.  This is the perfect use case of electric drive train.  Hmmm the BMW Isetta was ahead of its time.
 

 

Edited June 28 by Jun

[KwS 2391]

Classic Tesla owner. OP wants an i3, looking to spend about $20k based on the age and KM in the first post... Tesla fanboy storms in pimping out how much better a Model Y is than everything else in the world. The cheapest for sale is twice what the OP is looking to pay for an I3, and lets face it, no one is cross shopping the awesome little i3 which pushed the boundaries of design and tech, with Elons overweight ugly abomination.

 

[Jun 232]

6 hours ago, KwS said:

Classic Tesla owner. OP wants an i3, looking to spend about $20k based on the age and KM in the first post... Tesla fanboy storms in pimping out how much better a Model Y is than everything else in the world. The cheapest for sale is twice what the OP is looking to pay for an I3, and lets face it, no one is cross shopping the awesome little i3 which pushed the boundaries of design and tech, with Elons overweight ugly abomination.

 

I guess you didn’t even bother to read my reply as you already made up your mind. I am a BMW fan hence why own a M5 and here on bimmersport. Before we bought a Tesla my first EV test drive is a BMW I4. The price difference is just too big and too many compromises. Similarly with the OP if the primary reason is transportation there are 2nd hand model 3 in low 30k, occasionally high 20k. There are other newer and better options than an I3. 190wh/km I3 vs 150wh/km model 3, this can be big difference especially if just charging at home. Placing the BMW fan aside as I found out myself after owning a Tesla they are actually good daily’s.  I am here trying to help out. He is right that that there is no small character car other than the I3 in NZ market. 

i have clearly stated that I don’t want this be a Tesla vs BMW. Contrary to popular belief Tesla are actually not that heavy. Model 3 performance is about similar weight as comparable G80 M3. Even for us we replaced a Cayenne with model y which is lighter by 300 kg. The packaging and engineering underneath is surprising hence the efficiency compared to other EVs. We have more storage in it than our Cayenne, so I can’t objectively say it’s worse (minus off-road, another story). I don’t like that it’s a common car, it has also other  things I don’t like but it’s livable. Anyway I hope this doesn’t degenerate to name calling thread.

 

 

[balancerider 736]

1 hour ago, Jun said:

Quote

There are other newer and better options than an I3 

in the 15-20k price range you are getting a leaf or a Zoe. Far rather have an i3 than a BYD or MG faux by 4

Quote

190wh/km I3 vs 150wh/km model 3, this can be big difference especially if just charging at home. 

The real world is more like 150 vs 160-165 - again 15k buys you a lot of charging.

Glad a Tesla works for you but supporting the douchebag in chief of that company is low on my things to do list. Accept that no automobile manufacturer is likely to be 'good' but you've gotta draw the line somewhere.

 

[GorGasm 563]

My 330e has been pretty good.  Current fuel average is 2.9l/100km but can get around Hamilton without charging.

Comparing for gas at $2.70.

I pay $11.43 per 100km excluding power.

An EV pays $7.60 per 100km excluding power.

An equivalent petrol would need to be using about 4.2l/100km to match.

Got to add power costs there but you get the idea.

Would prefer a 530e next time, but oh well.

[rod_r 11]

Thanks for the input. I envy the Tesla range but have no interest in one. I think I’m going to look for a 94ah bev and do a fast charge in Hamilton when I go down rather than carry around a Rex motor for infrequent use. 

[c.robertson00 11]

Surely the i3 with the rex is now the one to have, it can be used as a pure EV and you dont have to pay RUC's as its technically a hybrid petrol vehicle

[balancerider 736]

1 hour ago, rod_r said:

Thanks for the input. I envy the Tesla range but have no interest in one. I think I’m going to look for a 94ah bev and do a fast charge in Hamilton when I go down rather than carry around a Rex motor for infrequent use. 

https://www.trademe.co.nz/a/motors/cars/bmw/i3/listing/4767288570

This looks like the one to have. My partner can't get past the unusual looks sadly.

@c.robertson00 RUC's still apply to the REX - just at the lower PHEV rate. any savings will be chewed up the first time you have to service the REX.

[Olaf 3262]

On 6/30/2024 at 12:36 AM, KwS said:

Classic Tesla owner. OP wants an i3, looking to spend about $20k based on the age and KM in the first post... Tesla fanboy storms in pimping out how much better a Model Y is than everything else in the world. The cheapest for sale is twice what the OP is looking to pay for an I3, and lets face it, no one is cross shopping the awesome little i3 which pushed the boundaries of design and tech, with Elons overweight ugly abomination.

 

made me laugh, well done. 😀   

Jun has a leg over both sides of the fence, and has looked at the TCO from many perspectives.  His only 'crime' is looking at value where most see price.  I'm no particular fan of the Tesla, though appreciate Jun's thorough investigation and that he's living it.  I'm in no position to run electric, so for me it's all academic.

I'm surprised we don't see more i3 around Welly.  Last guy I met with one was very enthusiastic, charged via solar install.

The thing that gets me about (generalising here - I'm sure it's not you, Jun) Tesla drivers is the open road behaviour. Coasting down 10kmh below the speed limit in regional towns (60 in a 70, or 40 in a 50),  90 in a 100... then zip to 110... then the batty burn rate is too high in a passing lane after overtaking... down to 105.  All over the place! 😎  

[Olaf 3262]

On 6/30/2024 at 9:03 AM, balancerider said:

Glad a Tesla works for you but supporting the douchebag in chief of that company is low on my things to do list. Accept that no automobile manufacturer is likely to be 'good' but you've gotta draw the line somewhere.

Volkswagen.  I think we draw the line through Volkswagen.  Not that I don't love them, but you know, Dieselgate.  Will that work? 

I like the idea of an i3.

[Jun 232]

1 hour ago, Olaf said:

made me laugh, well done. 😀   

Jun has a leg over both sides of the fence, and has looked at the TCO from many perspectives.  His only 'crime' is looking at value where most see price.  I'm no particular fan of the Tesla, though appreciate Jun's thorough investigation and that he's living it.  I'm in no position to run electric, so for me it's all academic.

I'm surprised we don't see more i3 around Welly.  Last guy I met with one was very enthusiastic, charged via solar install.

The thing that gets me about (generalising here - I'm sure it's not you, Jun) Tesla drivers is the open road behaviour. Coasting down 10kmh below the speed limit in regional towns (60 in a 70, or 40 in a 50),  90 in a 100... then zip to 110... then the batty burn rate is too high in a passing lane after overtaking... down to 105.  All over the place! 😎  

Thanks Richard for the kind words, I also get the opposite sentiment whenever I say good things about Petrol engines, BMW, etc on EV/Tesla forums. Most annoying is only old folks like me know that M3 is a BMW, everyone there use M3 as shortcut for Model 3 🤪

Regarding the slow speed this is not a Tesla thing but an EV thing. They are trying to save electricity, by going slower… super annoying. In detail, drag coefficient goes up exponentially. Since electric motors are very efficient 80% compared to ICE 20% the effect of drag is more obvious on consumption. Most EV also don’t have a transmission, as it got flat torque while ICE runs similar engine speed on 100kph to 50kph as one of gears will be in the sweet spot rpm torque curve. So on ICE you want to be on the fastest possible speed to cover the most ground. While in EV you want least amount of resistance, downhills are the best as you charge your EV.

I am still dreaming of that E38 750i that has 1,000nm EV motor, nice plush limo but can leave most Tesla scratching their heads. I haven’t convinced Tina yet, but it is possible. I think a limo like 7 series would suit the silent motors than a 8 series coupe https://www.speedhunters.com/2020/08/converted-the-tesla-powered-bmw-8-series/

Edited July 2 by Jun

[Neil McCauley 322]

I trust you've seen these @Jun

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/projectcar/comments/skukut/progress_of_my_second_tesla_powered_e30/

[Jun 232]

7 hours ago, Neil McCauley said:

I trust you've seen these @Jun

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/projectcar/comments/skukut/progress_of_my_second_tesla_powered_e30/

No but Matte Rimac started with an E30. I think EVs are better suited for limo type of cars like the 7 series or small cars like Isetta. That is just my opinion, everyone has their own. It the meantime EV is our daily.

[Olaf 3262]

indeed, given e30 cabrio is worst-handling e30, you'd not be doing that one for the performance/handling...

Jun, there's a Model 3 on TradeMe with panel damage, something like $8K for the battery.. getting the whole wreck without the body panels could be just the starting point for your e38 luxury-length project.  Or, for more completeness, I know a guy with a couple of e60 M5 that need work... ideal - you can have the best of bost worlds!  One V10, one EV!  Oooh!  That'd drive everyone mad. 

[rod_r 11]

Contemplating an i3 certainly makes you evaluate your use case senarios in more depth.

As a one vehicle solution, I don't see how a BEV can work - particularly for that 1-5% of the time you want head out of town. I cant imagine going on too long a trip making 150kn jumps with charging stops. A PHEV seems like a pretty versatile option, [ or for the i3 a 94ah rex ]. TBH, a 60ah REX would actually cover all my needs but the newer model and slightly more range would be a nice compromise.

I also worked out for my average 7k km per year, adding in RUC's + charging costs, this is not about saving money on fuels [ coming form a 5L/100km car ]

[Olaf 3262]

Spotted two Teslas in the carpark my wife used today.  A black Model Y.  And a white Model 3, a couple of spaces apart.  nice monochromatic contrast.

Something about the Model 3 caught my eye...

Ooooh!

Edited July 4 by Olaf
posted burn photos

[balancerider 736]

Concur @rod_r - an i3 / leaf range EV is very much a second car for most people. TBF BMW never made any representations otherwise. If you have to have one car then phev makes a lot of sense but worst of both worlds if you can have 2 vehicles especially in terms of long term reliability. A 6-7 year old one is probably only one failure away from scrap