Neal

It’s been some time since I’ve seen that Sony model , I think if your not into the cd stacker you can put a Sony J link adapter in place of cd Stacker you’ll get an aux input via the stacker . 
 

Would pay to check the connector type before purchasing one.

eg  https://www.discountcarstereo.com/aai-sony.html

Have ordered more sound deadening. This time a mix of butyl and foam to line boot floor. Dynamat has some products but work out to thick when combining butyl foil with foam. Will use Soundskins as roughly 5 mm thick.

When measuring the bass with a microphone and Rew software I’m seeing couple of spikes showing up on the group delay so at certain frequencies the bass notes are taking up to 170 milliseconds to dissipate. Ideally you want this between 20 - 40 milliseconds for accurate Bass. Something is still resonating and causing the spikes. Will line the boot floor to see if it’s a contributing factor.

Could also be sub interactions with back seats so may need to rethink sub enclosure beyond this. It worked well in an e46 with a ski pass firing through rear armrest. Doesn’t work so well in an F80 m3 which doesn’t have one.

Group delay verse frequency response , work to do

Last bump before going to FB Market place.

Ideal if you’ve go an M3 coupe or Motorsport sedan. $360

2 hours ago, gjm said:

Remember seeing the aftermath of hitting the wall. Glad Longhurst survived that one . !

Boot lid sound treatment.

Found the boot lid was a major contributor to unwanted resonance caused by the sub. On good old kiwi Reggae Dub certainly bass lines would shake the lid and the number plate resonating badly. Ended up being straightforward to sort. Double sided tape sorted rear number plate and dynamat was added to the inside panels on the boot lid.The deadening worked well and the boot lid feels solid when closed now.  A large portion of the rattles sorted but a bit more to do.

On 8/29/2023 at 9:47 PM, Cement said:

I suspect I'm not alone in being amazed at the depth you are going to here !! Respect 👍

Thank you, 😀. I’m not sure if diy car audio is a hobby or obsession for me.

Love the learning that goes on with doing these projects.

Been working on a Speaker time alignment spreadsheet. I’d done tuning to date by ear with mono pink noise. Had what I thorough was a reasonably centred sound stage.I was wrong.

The principle of time alignment of speakers in a car is to pick the speaker that is furthest away and delay the sound slightly for the closer speakers. When done correctly the stage becomes better defined and it will sound like your more centred rather than offset.

So basically the process is to measure from where the middle of your head is to the middle of each speaker grill.

I’m doing two dsp maps. One for single drivers seat tune and one for front passengers.Tried the single seat settings and the results were excellent. Nice upfront soundstage with the image sitting above the dash and more centred for driver position.

For the measurements I’m around 173 cm and have the seat in a high position. Measurements will differ for taller and shorter people depending on seat position. But these values are a good starting point.

Had to drop the levels for the sub bass by about 6db from the 10 inch one I’ve been running for the past month. This old Boston still holds up will to the higher output 12s available. It shakes the car so now have a new list of rattles to sort.I think the larger boot area with the subfloor storage area is the cause. E46 M3 was better in this regard. Number plate rattle is to the point of being halirious. 

Treating the boot with sound deadening is a must now. Or go back to 10 inch sub. Been using dynamat in the interior and it works well , but thinking secondskins  which has foam as well( via The Warehouse ) could be the product for boot floor and dynamat on the underside of boot lid.

I recovered the subwoofer enclosure from my e46 build. Used pro audio Penn heavy duty speaker carpet. A bit thicker to work with, but very durable. The enclosure width was good. Just added a 6mm mdf sheet to the bottom to reduce the chance of submarining through the back seat in an accident. I also added metal plates to the inside of the enclosure. Used m8 Rivnuts and modded the rear tie down brackets so it bolts through the wood into the metal brackets.

I’ve made it so I can take the enclosure out as fuse box is below. Also used a 4 pole Soeakon pro audio connector. Mobridge amp runs 4 wires for sub to spread the current through its connector.  Used 30 amp x4 inside enclosure and 20 amp x 4 from amp. So cable loss is minimal at 400 -500 rms that the Amp can deliver to the sub.

I ran one Morel and one HK underseat woofer for a week so I could flip between the two for A / B comparison. Over all the Morel is a good improvement over Harman. I set the two so they ran the same volume around 90 hz. Lower than 90 hz the Morels a 2 - 3 db louder . There is a peak around 70 hz where I think cabin gain is coming into play. But looking like it will follow target curve quite well. Currently have them cutting off from 45hz at 24 db / octave so getting excellent up front bass. 
 

Put second woofer in and knocked back the gain a couple of db. With volume towards maximum power rating they stay composed. Wasn’t able to achieve this with the Harmans installed which I ran for the last month or so. Musically the Morels are excellent covering 50 -150hz range. Have the sub running 20 -60 hz with a 12 db rolloff. 
 

Just want to do hillclimbs again after watching this 😀

Have been tuning system by ear but also have to finish tidying up the box on my intended subwoofer.  At this stage it’s been about getting to know at what point to set crossover points and relatively volume from one speaker to the next. 

The Focal door speaker and tweeter where straight forward and testing indicated that Focal values work well. The front pair run active so have dedicated amp channels.

EG ,

Tweeter  3500hz crossover point , running 24db / octave. Amp gain with slight cut

Door midbass 150hz to 3500hz , running 24db / octave . Zero amp gain.

Underseat Harman Kardon 8 inch woofers a bit harder to tune. With a boot sub I’ve found diminishing returns with getting the HK to go low for up front bass. Crossing them at 60hz to 150hz seems about right. Amp channel at +6db. But I’ve always intend to swap these out. However , I’m impressed with there power handling for an oem woofer. Have roughly 140 watts rms at 8 ohms and in the frequency range above the will go beyond the volume I’d listen too without issue. 

My backup Sub has been interesting ( small box 10 inch with passive radiator) , normally I would n’t overlap frequency ranges but Faser from Mobridge sent his tune file. So I tried his settings which worked really well. So 20-70hz @ 12db slope. 

I’ve also decided to replace the Harman Kardon subwoofers ( woofers really ) I’d tried modelling some higher end replacements conventional drivers but getting them to fit and operate between enclosure and seat rails problematic. There are plenty of aftermarket options , some will go lower , others are more accurate, and some excel in Mid bass and others aren’t as good as Harman Kardon. 
 

My shortlist with primary goal of mid bass performance of getting down to 50hz . BMW B&W option underseat woofer second had as high end option in M5 / X5  / 7 series., Focal BMW ISub ( very power efficient but highish QTS of 0.93 , 11mm  Cone travel ) ESB BMW Sub 1 ( high powered, high efficiency and low QTS 0.36 18mm cone travel ) and Morel , BMWsubip82  high powered ,  QTS 0.57 but lowish efficiency , Cone travel not disclosed. Focals are very cost effective compared with the other two landed in NZ. ESB are twice the cost of Focals when imported.

Went with importing Morels from Australia based on these being in a Mobridge powered car to great effect.

If you’re looking to replace underseat woofers be your own judge but more power is required if your after a marked improvement . With QTS ratings in general the lower number is tight dry sounding bass , High values are more boomy. Numbers greater than 1.0 have trouble articulating different bass notes but do have a bass hump. Best avoided if your after bumph rather than boom.

I drove the car for a week with no audio . Mainly to listen for rattles etc . Got a few to sort. On one of the rear doors I forgot to put Tesa tape on the door card clip points and I think that’s I’m getting clip rattle . The other is the light console area in the headliner…. and the garage remote bracket . Easy to sort hopefully.

It was then time to code the NBT system to no longer use the ASD module  There is a couple of ways to go about it and no flashing  of modules required. I brought an MHD universal Wi-Fi to OBDIi dongle as it also uses the Ethernet bus so quite quick to make changes with.

For  the programming on the F80 audio system there are two choices , Esys for PC or BimmerCode for mobile phone. I went with BimmerCode for iPhone .

So just two areas need changing and this is for NBT evo  4.1 hardware. System needs to be told it has the top Harmon Kardon audio and that the amplifier is the Most version. You go into expert mode in BimmerCode and one coded you can either power off the car and let it go into sleep mode or in my case reboot the NBT by pushing down on the volume / on / off knob for 30 seconds. Once done the Mobridge amplifier joined the Most Audio fibre ring and was ready to configure.

Spent some time doing basic audio crossover points and relative loudness settings by ear on the F80's audio system.  Hardest area seems to be tuning the understeat woofers for to get them to blend with sub and door midbass.

Focal door speakers need running in so will run it for 20 hours of so and then tune with calibrated mic. WIll be interesting t see the difference between tuning by ear verse mic. Hopefully I'm not far off. 

Steering Wheel Buttons
Addr Description Frame data Comment
50 Next: Press 50 04 68 3B 01 06
50 Previous: Press 50 04 68 3B 08 0F

Navigation / GPS
Addr Description Frame data Comment
7F City 7F 23 C8 A4 00 01 42 45 52 4C 49 4E 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 2F In this case BERLIN
7F Latitude / Longitude 7F 14 C8 A2 00 00 52 33 19 40 00 13 11 51 70 00 00 00 11 00 00 0B In this case Latitude 52° 33' 19.4'' / Longitude 13° 11' 51.7''
7F Street 7F 23 C8 A4 00 02 48 4F 48 45 4E 5A 4F 4C 4C 45 52 4E 52 49 4E 47 3B 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 13 In this case HOHENZOLLERNRING

Board Monitor Buttons
Addr Description Frame data Comment
F0 1: Press F0 04 68 48 11 C5
F0 1: Press > 1 second F0 04 68 48 51 85
F0 1: Release F0 04 68 48 91 45
F0 2: Press F0 04 68 48 01 D5
F0 2: Press > 1 second F0 04 68 48 41 95
F0 2: Release F0 04 68 48 81 55
F0 3: Press F0 04 68 48 12 C6
F0 3: Press > 1 second F0 04 68 48 52 86
F0 3: Release F0 04 68 48 92 46
F0 4: Press F0 04 68 48 02 D6
F0 4: Press > 1 second F0 04 68 48 42 96
F0 4: Release F0 04 68 48 82 56
F0 5: Press F0 04 68 48 13 C7
F0 5: Press > 1 second F0 04 68 48 53 87
F0 5: Release F0 04 68 48 93 47
F0 6: Press F0 04 68 48 03 D7
F0 6: Press > 1 second F0 04 68 48 43 97
F0 6: Release F0 04 68 48 83 57
F0 AM: Press F0 04 68 48 21 F5
F0 AM: Press > 1 second F0 04 68 48 61 B5
F0 AM: Release F0 04 68 48 A1 75
F0 Clock switch: Press F0 04 FF 48 07 44
F0 Dolby: Press F0 04 68 48 33 E7
F0 Dolby: Press > 1 second F0 04 68 48 73 A7
F0 Dolby: Release F0 04 68 48 B3 67
F0 Eject: Press F0 04 68 48 24 F0
F0 Eject: Press > 1 second F0 04 68 48 64 B0
F0 Eject: Release F0 04 68 48 A4 70
F0 FM: Press F0 04 68 48 31 E5
F0 FM: Press > 1 second F0 04 68 48 71 A5
F0 FM: Release F0 04 68 48 B1 65
F0 Menu switch: Press F0 04 FF 48 34 77
F0 Menu switch: Press > 1 second F0 04 FF 48 74 37
F0 Menu switch: Release F0 04 FF 48 B4 F7
F0 Menu turnknob: Clockwise F0 04 3B 49 81 07
F0 Menu turnknob: Counterclockwise F0 04 3B 49 01 87
F0 Menu turnknob: Press F0 04 3B 48 05 82
F0 Menu turnknob: Press > 1 second F0 04 3B 48 45 C2
F0 Menu turnknob: Release F0 04 3B 48 85 02
F0 Mode: Press F0 04 68 48 23 F7
F0 Mode: Press > 1 second F0 04 68 48 63 B7
F0 Mode: Release F0 04 68 48 A3 77
F0 Next: Press F0 04 68 48 00 D4
F0 Next: Press > 1 second F0 04 68 48 40 94
F0 Next: Release F0 04 68 48 80 54
F0 Previous: Press F0 04 68 48 10 C4
F0 Previous: Press > 1 second F0 04 68 48 50 84
F0 Previous: Release F0 04 68 48 90 44
F0 Radio / Bord Monitor: Press F0 04 68 48 30 E4
F0 Radio / Bord Monitor: Press > 1 second F0 04 68 48 70 A4
F0 Radio / Bord Monitor: Release F0 04 68 48 B0 64
F0 Radio Power: Press F0 04 68 48 06 D2
F0 Radio Power: Press > 1 second F0 04 68 48 46 92
F0 Radio Power: Release F0 04 68 48 86 52
F0 RDS: Press F0 04 68 48 22 F6
F0 RDS: Press > 1 second F0 04 68 48 62 B6
F0 RDS: Release F0 04 68 48 A2 76
F0 Reverse Play: Press F0 04 68 48 14 C0
F0 Reverse Play: Press > 1 second F0 04 68 48 54 80
F0 Reverse Play: Release F0 04 68 48 94 40
F0 Select: Press F0 04 68 48 20 F4
F0 Select: Press > 1 second F0 04 68 48 60 B4
F0 Select: Release F0 04 68 48 A0 74
F0 Telephone: Press F0 04 FF 48 08 4B
F0 Telephone: Press > 1 second F0 04 FF 48 48 0B
F0 Telephone: Release F0 04 FF 48 88 CB
F0 Tone: Press > 1 second F0 04 68 48 44 90
F0 TP: Press F0 04 68 48 02 E6
F0 TP: Press > 1 second F0 04 68 48 72 A6
F0 TP: Release F0 04 68 48 B2 66

Did you find the hex codes ? I think I’ve got a pdf or doc somewhere for all the button hex codes for ibus based BMWs . Will have a look

One thing that bothered me when I purchased the m3 was rear boot 12volt outlet didn’t work. It had some diy cabling which was a collection of wires that were bodged together. Dual small gauge earth wires and positive wire was two different sections of different sizes.

Decided to tidy it up and run correct 2.5mm2 gauge and colour wires using BMW connectors for earth and fusebox.

The earth comb point in the boot seemed to be full. But the earth comb behind backseat bloster has a spare position.

So ordered BMW terminal connectors via CBMW in Wellington.

Earth terminal part no 61131387144 for 1.5mm2 - 2.5mm2 wire

Battery box leaf terminal part no 61138377732 for 2.5mm2 wire

I disconnect battery for install .Simple task of removing left rear set bloster and undoing earth comb with m10 socket ( yes I did manage to find one 😀) remove cover and push on terminal for earth point.

For the positive cable you simply undo 1 m10 bolt and turn the battery box inside down. Dispite  having a fuse the rear side connector wasn’t installed. Just popped out the connector out via lifting the small red locking pin. The leaf connector is just pushed in until a click is heard. Then just push main connector back and push in red lock pin.

Ran the cable via factory path and used Tesa tape to ensure no rattles. For the boot section I used a couple of BMW cable grommets to secure the cable to the left side of boot.

Need to finish subwoofer box carpet recover and the code Idrive for “top hifi” to enable Most.

Then set up crossovers and DSP on Mobridge Amp.

The M3 had base audio underseat woofers. These are 6.5 inch units. I brought some second hand Harman Kardon 8 inch speakers and enclosures. Original intention was to replace these with an aftermarket drop in woofer. But will try these in a mid bass role running 50hz to 200hz.

Was straight forward replacement. Undo seat bolts , move seats back. , take off speaker grill and unbolt enclosure. 
 

Install was simply add Bmw male 4 pin speaker connector to new speaker wire. 
Position 2 , woofer —

Position 3 woofer ++

And bolt HK enclosure back in after aligning the enclosure with the port into the inner door sill.

Also put a loop back Most plug at amp end to test. Cluster gongs continued to work so Most fibre ring ready.

Next area was extending Most. ( disconnect battery ) Found earlier that my base audio did have Most digital audio bus between the idrive and the Speedo cluster. Needed to tap into Most and complete a Most ring to include the Mobridge amp. Got a Y adaptor which is installed behind the idrive unit.

The y adaptor has three plugs , two female and one male

The idrive to cluster section as two connectors that are unplugged and y cable is inserted

Connections

Idrive male to Y cable female

Cluster female to Y cable female

Mobridge Amp 5 meter extension male to Y cable female

Ordered a most cable grommet trying to follow real oem. The grommet and y adaptor needed Tesa tape as didn’t quite clip in. Y adaptor had universal connectors rather than bmw. Not a problem though. Wrapped y cable with Tesa tape to avoid rattling behind dash location.

How did you get on ?

Front door speakers installed over the weekend.

Process similar to rear doors. Front door connectors are slightly different allowing for more connections such as mirror radar , side cameras , comfit access  etc. Process for taking off the door cards are the same, although, most YouTube videos have the window controls pried out from the armrest side. It’s straight forward to use a pri tool from the inner door card and push them out. 

Wiring for the front doors slightly different to the rears the front tweeters are running active so have dedicated amp channels. I put a bass blocker capacitor in line to protect the tweeter from getting low frequencies by mistake. Used a foil type which is typically used in higher end crossovers. Used a 18 Microfarad value which will start to drop frequencies below 2800 hz and a 6db rate. In hindsight I should have used 22 uf as will tune tweeter to run from 3500 hz up. 18 uf may interfere a bit at 3500 hz. Will see what happens when I do an RTA. The capacitor is quite large , but there is enough room within the door card. Wrapped it in Tesa tape and used fabric Velcro  to mount it.

Removed the inner door trim and replaced it the Harman Kardon version. Was quite fiddly for the first one , The focal tweeters a bit deeper than the HK ones so the trim backing and tweeter is up against one of the door mirror bolts. The door trim will fit , but it’s tight.

Running new speaker wires a bit easier than rear doors. Easy access via bottom door membrane. Just gently pull away until enough access to get loom in.

Repeated the sound deadening install as per rear doors. Also used Tesa tape on door clip mounts to stop door card rattling with loose clips.

Added a neoprene seal to speaker ring which will sit against speaker adaptor face. Improves sound from the door mount.

The voice coil on these vents to the top as well which doesn’t help. Although the later speaker grills have a cover portion over the speaker vent.

I’d pull the woofer out and connect to home stereo and see if it plays clean as a starting point. 

Also thinking with the cic upgrade there are various coding options so you probably want top hifi  coding which uses the Most optical digital transport and has a quite flat sound response.