The Bimmersport Election Poll

[zenetti 0]

One thing I hate is politicians selling off national assets and right now National wants to do exactly that.

Do you know something the rest of us don't? Which ones are they selling?

[M325is 0]

There is talk of later down the track, not in the next government term, of selling Kiwisaver.

[CamB 48]

Kiwisaver isn't something you can sell.

The money in Kiwisaver is the individual holders - it is managed for each holder by professional fund managers. The government provides an initial contribution and matching contributions, etc, and while it might stop doing this there is no asset ----> its a liability.

[Andrew 30]

bloody right wing website...

[martyyn 2]

There is so much in this thread to comment on its not funny !

For a start.....M325is. Feel free to come around to my place and see how my wife works during the day looking after our three kids and then tell me its not a job. We cook all our food from scratch rather than 'out of a packet' and they dont watch tv all day so require 'old fashioned' parenting with proper stimulation and are not left to fend for themselves. I did 12 hours at work yesterday and I still reckon I got off lightly.

Anyway, I would like to know the ages of some of you because judging by some of the comments there are a few people who only remember the good times of the last 5-6 years and certainly dont remember what National did the last time they were in power. Sure the economy is suffering at the moment but NZ's plight is governed by what happens overseas (rather than anything that Labour has done) and its not exactly a bed of roses anywhere else is it ?

People also seem to have forgotten about the massive wave that the country has ridden on the last 8-10 years. It was just two years ago when it was at its peak, house values had gone through the roof, unemployment was at an all time low, people were so desperate to get in on the act that they borrowed massive sums and took out 100% mortgages that they couldnt afford simply because the future looked so rosy. In the meantime people had forgotten how to save for the rainy day that inevitably comes. It was 'I want it and I want it now' and that comes nicely to Mr Fox's comments about gread.

Everyone wanted a slice of the pie and they didnt care how much debt they got into to get what they wanted. Interest free loans were everywhere, banks gave money out like confetti and people bought whatever they wanted whenever they wanted it knowing they could always use the equity in their house to cover it.

The banks didnt care whether you could afford the repayments or not, they had your house the moment you defaulted so they were covered. We just remortgaged our loans and by they're calcuations I should be able to feed, house and pay all the bills of a family of five on $1200 a month.....that doesnt even cover the food but it means that on the application forms it looks like I have thousands of spare every month and thats what they want you to see.

But then the house prices got too much, suddenly the generation that has massive student debts (thanks National) came into play in terms of the 'game of life' and they couldnt afford to get on the property ladder. Money became tighter and all of a sudden overseas markets take a sudden dive and there is only one way to go when your at the top and thats down.

My wife and I have a combined student loan debt that would make you all weep. For my generation, National dropped student allowances, brought in student fees (although Lockwood-Smith's stood on tv and said they wouldnt) and gave us student loans at 13% interest compounding daily with 2% penalty fees any month for any balance left unpaid.

My monthly repayments dont even cover the penalties, so whilst the students of today have interest free loans, there is a generation of students who are still getting shafted to the hilt thanks to the past policies of National.

Youve probably already guessed that I wont be voting National But then I promised myself four years ago that it was Labours last chance. I pay a massive amount of tax every year and still I have to pay almost $50 to take my kids to the doctor. The school asks for 'voluntary' donations every year and we even had a note sent home to other day to send 80c because my daughter has finished her story-writing book already and needs a new one.

The roads are still crap, the hospitals are massively understaffed (where it counts on the shop floor anyway, Im sure the paper pushers are doing ok), the police are getting younger every year and we are now seeing ambulances with only one person in it.

So where is it all going ?

I was asked the other day whether I thought John Key was doing a good job or not. I havent seen him come out with anything other than gibberish for months and he has had plenty of opportunities to swing my vote but he hasnt. He just doesnt have what it takes to be a PM. But then I had to admit that even with all his short comings and Nationals past failings, how can you not admire someone who has such a massive lead in the pole's ?

Change for changes sake is not a good enough reason, and so my vote probably wont be decided until the day. But I will vote with a 'social' conscience. I dont mind paying tax aslong as its used to make the country better, to fund social services and to help people who really need it. Having one example of someone screwing the system does not mean its broken.

I hope I havent put you all to sleep !

[Grant 4]

Penry - I think you are a very smart man, you certainly didn't put me to sleep, and I agree pretty much wholeheartedly with your post.

Cheers

Grant

[Jammasterjames 0]

Not down with Liarbour!

Edited October 7, 2008 by Jammasterjames

[M325is 0]

There is so much in this thread to comment on its not funny !

For a start.....M325is. Feel free to come around to my place and see how my wife works during the day looking after our three kids and then tell me its not a job. We cook all our food from scratch rather than 'out of a packet' and they dont watch tv all day so require 'old fashioned' parenting with proper stimulation and are not left to fend for themselves. I did 12 hours at work yesterday and I still reckon I got off lightly.

My wife and I have a combined student loan debt that would make you all weep. For my generation, National dropped student allowances, brought in student fees (although Lockwood-Smith's stood on tv and said they wouldnt) and gave us student loans at 13% interest compounding daily with 2% penalty fees any month for any balance left unpaid.

My monthly repayments dont even cover the penalties, so whilst the students of today have interest free loans, there is a generation of students who are still getting shafted to the hilt thanks to the past policies of National.

\

Your wife has the option to get a part time job and send your kids to early childhood care, they are more educated in teaching then anyone. She will be earning enough to support that education after 25-30hours. So don't say she can't because she can, with out claiming the benefit too. As for the house work, every other family has those chores to deal with at the end of the day, its life. Your wife picked the path for your kids, but others have abused the path your wife has taken, so unfortunately I am against it.

You say your still reaping the penalties from the last National government as you have a hidious loan between you, but how can you when its now interest free for everyone? not just new loans.

Edited October 7, 2008 by M325is

[Mike 1]

Your wife has the option to get a part time job and send your kids to early childhood care, they are more educated in teaching then anyone.

Tax cuts can come from reducing the amount of money going out to the so called needy: Single mothers, Early childhood care,

um, so what is it? you want the kids shipped off out the house ASAP so mum can work but you dont want pay for it?

Whats the point in mum working all day just to pay someone else to look after the kids? Let mum (or dad) enjoy their kids pre-school years

I'm with Grant and Penry, tax cuts would be sweet but theres more important things to worry about

[martyyn 2]

Your wife has the option to get a part time job and send your kids to early childhood care, they are more educated in teaching then anyone. She will be earning enough to support that education after 25-30hours. So don't say she can't because she can, with out claiming the benefit too. As for the house work, every other family has those chores to deal with at the end of the day, its life. Your wife picked the path for your kids, but others have abused the path your wife has taken, so unfortunately I am against it.

You say your still reaping the penalties from the last National government as you have a hidious loan between you, but how can you when its now interest free for everyone? not just new loans.

We didnt have kids to have someone else bring them up, its our responsibility and we do it very well judging by the comments we get from friends and family about how they behave when we are not around. We get no help from anyone, both started with nothing and everything we have has been down to hard work.

Having her work part time, means getting up at a hideous hour of the morning, shipping the kids out and never seeing each other during the day. Weve been there before and for the pittance that we would earn over and above the cost of childcare its just not worth it. Our priority is our family and thats best served by her being at home looking after everyone.

But to be honest Im not sure why Im explaining myself as I dont really see your point. I havent said anywhere that my wife cant go out to work so dont know what your getting at.

Yes the loans are interest free, but as I said originally I still get charged 2% each month of any outstanding balance that hasnt been paid. Currently thats $1200 a month.

If you cant back with anything other than experience or fact, dont bother. Your bullsh!t comments are not welcome.

[edit] spelling etc

Edited October 8, 2008 by Penry

[CamB 48]

Shelley - National supporters are supposed to be supportive of the family unit. Labour gets criticised (unfairly) as family hating ---> you need to make up your mind. Penry's wife chooses to stay at home. She chooses not to have an extra job. She isn't subsidised by the government (although, ironically, she would be if she took her children to childcare), so I am not sure why you are so angry about her choices.

Penry - great post, and an interesting comment about people's ages. I'm early 30s for what its worth - I remember the last recession (mini recession post tech bubble), and the one before that (post 87). I think I have a lot more perspective now than I did when I was younger (although when I was young I thought I knew more than I think I know now).

By the way, this isn't meant to deride younger people - your vote is worth as much as mine.

still I have to pay almost $50 to take my kids to the doctor.

This isn't right - your PHO should be well funded for school age children. It shouldn't be anywhere near $50.

Edited October 7, 2008 by CamB

[Cale 36]

I'm with Grant and Penry, tax cuts would be sweet but theres more important things to worry about

Like the state of NZs economy?

correct me if I am wrong but we need the govt to bring out their expansionary fiscal policy where tax (direct & indirect) will increase (tax cuts in other words), and transfer payments increase also. This spurs and stimulates economic activity by increasing aggregate demand for goods and service. People will hopefully save more and therefore be able to invest their money after necessary goods are consumed, put money back into business (which is the same as bailing out the private sector as the US govt had to do)(because the crash is basically over now), which results in economic growth and decrease the ill effect of the worlds upcoming recession. Sort of like a mini bailout. Then wait for the next crash in 8-11 years.

(edit) Sorry if I'm speaking out of my arse.

Edited October 7, 2008 by Quailboy

[CamB 48]

(because the crash is basically over now)

That's a big call... I reckon its about half way. Sale on now - buy Iceland half price.

Tax cuts are a potential expansionary policy. Both parties are doing it. It's expensive, and the effectiveness of it as a driver of growth depends on a number of factors including the degree to which it is consumed rather than saved, and where it is consumed.

If it all ultimately ends up offshore (eg imports, paying the interest bill to Australia, etc), then it may not create much long term growth.

If it gives a leg up to the housing market, it's completely wasted (I would argue there is essentially no economic productivity in housing investment).

(edit) You could argue that tax cuts which lead to Govt deficits are effectively the Govt borrowing to release spending power into the economy. That borrowing will need to be paid back, with interest, so you have to be satisfied that the overall impact to tax cuts will be to create higher overall tax revenues (through growth). The economic proof of this is the subject of much debate.

(Double-edit) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supply-side_economics

Edited October 7, 2008 by CamB

[Apex 693]

There is so much in this thread to comment on its not funny !

For a start.....M325is. Feel free to come around to my place and see how my wife works during the day looking after our three kids and then tell me its not a job. We cook all our food from scratch rather than 'out of a packet' and they dont watch tv all day so require 'old fashioned' parenting with proper stimulation and are not left to fend for themselves. I did 12 hours at work yesterday and I still reckon I got off lightly.

Anyway, I would like to know the ages of some of you because judging by some of the comments there are a few people who only remember the good times of the last 5-6 years and certainly dont remember what National did the last time they were in power. Sure the economy is suffering at the moment but NZ's plight is governed by what happens overseas (rather than anything that Labour has done) and its not exactly a bed of roses anywhere else is it ?

People also seem to have forgotten about the massive wave that the country has ridden on the last 8-10 years. It was just two years ago when it was at its peak, house values had gone through the roof, unemployment was at an all time low, people were so desperate to get in on the act that they borrowed massive sums and took out 100% mortgages that they couldnt afford simply because the future looked so rosy. In the meantime people had forgotten how to save for the rainy day that inevitably comes. It was 'I want it and I want it now' and that comes nicely to Mr Fox's comments about gread.

Everyone wanted a slice of the pie and they didnt care how much debt they got into to get what they wanted. Interest free loans were everywhere, banks gave money out like confetti and people bought whatever they wanted whenever they wanted it knowing they could always use the equity in their house to cover it.

The banks didnt care whether you could afford the repayments or not, they had your house the moment you defaulted so they were covered. We just remortgaged our loans and by they're calcuations I should be able to feed, house and pay all the bills of a family of five on $1200 a month.....that doesnt even cover the food but it means that on the application forms it looks like I have thousands of spare every month and thats what they want you to see.

But then the house prices got too much, suddenly the generation that has massive student debts (thanks National) came into play in terms of the 'game of life' and they couldnt afford to get on the property ladder. Money became tighter and all of a sudden overseas markets take a sudden dive and there is only one way to go when your at the top and thats down.

My wife and I have a combined student loan debt that would make you all weep. For my generation, National dropped student allowances, brought in student fees (although Lockwood-Smith's stood on tv and said they wouldnt) and gave us student loans at 13% interest compounding daily with 2% penalty fees any month for any balance left unpaid.

My monthly repayments dont even cover the penalties, so whilst the students of today have interest free loans, there is a generation of students who are still getting shafted to the hilt thanks to the past policies of National.

Youve probably already guessed that I wont be voting National But then I promised myself four years ago that it was Labours last chance. I pay a massive amount of tax every year and still I have to pay almost $50 to take my kids to the doctor. The school asks for 'voluntary' donations every year and we even had a note sent home to other day to send 80c because my daughter has finished her story-writing book already and needs a new one.

The roads are still crap, the hospitals are massively understaffed (where it counts on the shop floor anyway, Im sure the paper pushers are doing ok), the police are getting younger every year and we are now seeing ambulances with only one person in it.

So where is it all going ?

I was asked the other day whether I thought John Key was doing a good job or not. I havent seen him come out with anything other than gibberish for months and he has had plenty of opportunities to swing my vote but he hasnt. He just doesnt have what it takes to be a PM. But then I had to admit that even with all his short comings and Nationals past failings, how can you not admire someone who has such a massive lead in the pole's ?

Change for changes sake is not a good enough reason, and so my vote probably wont be decided until the day. But I will vote with a 'social' conscience. I dont mind paying tax aslong as its used to make the country better, to fund social services and to help people who really need it. Having one example of someone screwing the system does not mean its broken.

I hope I havent put you all to sleep !

RE;kids

At your stage in life I can see where you are coming from, it’s the early twenty’s late teens that are the problem. I know of women that have had kids simply because the wish to dumb down and not work, an easy way out so to speak.

The missus and I would love kids but we choose to become debt free beforehand so that we can comfortably support our family when the time comes, we have worked hard to pay off our massive student loan and are now hitting our mortgage down.

National are winning the polls due to people being lazy and wanting a change without having to do anything themselves.

Look forwarded to seeing what happens over the next month.

[CamB 48]

The missus and I would love kids but we choose to become debt free beforehand so that we can comfortably support our family when the time comes, we have worked hard to pay off our massive student loan and are now hitting our mortgage down.

You do need to at least acknowledge that this is not a realistic alternative for about 95% of the population. Good on you though.

(edit) In case I am not being clear - 50% of people earn less than the median household income, which is $30-odd thousand pa. It is not possible in a major city to save a deposit and buy a house in a short period of time on this basis.

Edited October 8, 2008 by CamB

[martyyn 2]

This isn't right - your PHO should be well funded for school age children. It shouldn't be anywhere near $50.

Our doctor is in the center of town and they charge $47 dollars for children over the age of 6. I pay $50 for myself and hit the roof when I took my daughter in a couple of weeks ago.

[Apex 693]

You do need to at least acknowledge that this is not a realistic alternative for about 95% of the population. Good on you though.

(edit) In case I am not being clear - 50% of people earn less than the median household income, which is $30-odd thousand pa. It is not possible in a major city to save a deposit and buy a house in a short period of time on this basis.

I acknowledge that , different people have different goals and priorities..

Our doctor is in the center of town and they charge $47 dollars for children over the age of 6. I pay $50 for myself and hit the roof when I took my daughter in a couple of weeks ago.

I live in South Auckland and it only costs me $22. $50 seems steep, isn’t there a community services card for hard to do families?

[Creaver 55]

21yr old - $10/visit for being a member with the specific doctors.

Radius Healthcare place in manukau near burgerfuel.

I find the waits are pretty short compared with Bakerfield Medical centre just down the road...and A HELL OF A LOT cheaper.

At your stage in life I can see where you are coming from, it’s the early twenty’s late teens that are the problem. I know of women that have had kids simply because the wish to dumb down and not work, an easy way out so to speak.

Unfortunately I have a friend whose Mrs has done exactly this...quite sad really.

[Guest SamSpargo]

National have neatly scrapped most of their tax cuts based on the treasury books, have they not?

(note to michael cullen - turns out the treasury books were on the same shelf as the colouring in ones!)

[*Glenn* 854]

My turn now

As I see it...my vote is going to have as much effect on the outcome as pissing into Lake Taupo to raise the level.

I'm going to vote National though and see if a businessman with a track record of generating wealth can make a difference with our internal situation. I've always maintained that a government should be run like a business and career politicians dont have the knowledge in that field and vice versa with other matters.

Really, as far as I'm concerned, I couldnt care to much about it. No government has ever helped me in anyway. I've never had a hand out in all my life

I pay more taxes than alot of people earn. I employ people, pay ACC, Tax, and every other expence. I survive and prosper because I work hard. You will get nothing from no one without working for it. Standing in a cue, grissling with your hand out will never get you any where. I broke my leg.... I went to work on crutches. I tore my archilles tendon.. I went to work in a wheel chair. I get a cold....I go to work. If you want something.... GO AND GET IT YOURSELF Dont rely on others to give it to you. It doesnt work like that. As for whos in government... I couldnt really give a rats arse untill it effects me...if it does....I'm out of here lock stock & barrel.

[M325is 0]

Whats the point in mum working all day just to pay someone else to look after the kids? Let mum (or dad) enjoy their kids pre-school years

Is your wife an early childhood teacher? Kids benefit from going to pre-school. But if you choose to do it yourself and your not on the benefit that is fine with me.

[M325is 0]

National are winning the polls due to people being lazy and wanting a change without having to do anything themselves.

What can we do apart from be law abiding citizens that don't bludge off tax payers. Its not our job to project manage this country.

[M325is 0]

You do need to at least acknowledge that this is not a realistic alternative for about 95% of the population. Good on you though.

(edit) In case I am not being clear - 50% of people earn less than the median household income, which is $30-odd thousand pa. It is not possible in a major city to save a deposit and buy a house in a short period of time on this basis.

Why is it not possible for 95% of the population, I'd love to hear the excuse.

And $30,000 im sure is the average persons wage not household.

[Apex 693]

My turn now

As I see it...my vote is going to have as much effect on the outcome as pissing into Lake Taupo to raise the level.

I'm going to vote National though and see if a businessman with a track record of generating wealth can make a difference with our internal situation. I've always maintained that a government should be run like a business and career politicians dont have the knowledge in that field and vice versa with other matters.

Really, as far as I'm concerned, I couldnt care to much about it. No government has ever helped me in anyway. I've never had a hand out in all my life

I pay more taxes than alot of people earn. I employ people, pay ACC, Tax, and every other expence. I survive and prosper because I work hard. You will get nothing from no one without working for it. Standing in a cue, grissling with your hand out will never get you any where. I broke my leg.... I went to work on crutches. I tore my archilles tendon.. I went to work in a wheel chair. I get a cold....I go to work. If you want something.... GO AND GET IT YOURSELF Dont rely on others to give it to you. It doesnt work like that. As for whos in government... I couldnt really give a rats arse untill it effects me...if it does....I'm out of here lock stock & barrel.

Im the same, work sick as a dog. Im getting my wisdom teeth out tomorrow morning, I’ll be working in the arvo. No paid sick days for us and bugger all ACC even though we pay thousands every year to them.

If he ran the country like a kiwi business we “the Employees†would have the run of the place, I don’t want to pay tax today as im on maternity leave, I don’t want to pay tax this week as my cousins third uncle died and I need to take a week off for a funeral, you can’t send me to jail without 20 verbal warnings and three written warnings.

[Apex 693]

What can we do apart from be law abiding citizens that don't bludge off tax payers. Its not our job to project manage this country.

I was meaning the mugs that go on about hard everything is and how much Labour have stuffed everything up without looking at how lazy and useless they are.. they should go out and change their own life without blaming the hardship on the government.

Im really not political so excuse my ignorance.

Maybe we need a Gordon Ramsey type government to come in and beat up the crap lovely jubley Jamie Oliver softy’s we have now?