The Bimmersport Election Poll

[bmw.maniac 1]

So I'll be voting ACT, as they are the only party who have so far respected my 'No Advertising Material' sign. I think it's a sound basis on which to vote- on discussing with others, ACT are also the party most likely to leave me in peace.

My younger brother, a brochure deliverer, got a lengthy letter from the distribution company outlining the delivery of election brochures. Aparantly they are exempt as being called 'advertising material' and can therefore be placed in No Circulars, No Junk Mail, No Advertising etc labelled letterboxes. However, they can NOT be delivered to boxes stating "Posted Mail Only" or "NZ Post Only" etc, for some reason.

I thought it was quite a funny letter, i'll scan it and post it up tomorrow if he still has it.

[*Glenn* 854]

Well f*ck I wouldn't want to lose a job or have some other misfortune occur around you guys.

Geez, its not softcock PC to believe that a social safety net is a good idea. It's common decency.

Cam...I honestly have no problem with a person getting assistance for unemployment or injury if its genuine. Too many are taking advantage of the system though,longer it goes on, the less likely those people will be employable.

How many people do you know that call in sick with excuses like " I've got a runny nose" or " I hurt my finger" or "I've got a migrain" just to use their sick leave up... in the long run... you pay. Businesses have to allow for that in determining their charge out rate or profit margin... so you end up paying for that. A large proportion of our population these days will exploit any opportunity they can and at the end of the day that costs you.

Take a walk around any neighbourhood, especially those on lower income or on the benefit and see how many gardens there are growing vegetables ?? Most quarter acre sections dont even have one ?? Because its to hard. And the hand outs are easier. Alot dont even try to help themselves. Most of our serious offenders are also "unemployed" or on the "sickness benefit" .... I wonder why ??? nothing to do ?? go break into your car or house while your working hard ?? Who pays for that ??....... you, me.....all of us.

BTW..how much does a packet of seed cost these days ? about the same as a can or bottle of beer. And you'll find alot of those stacked up next to the back door or in the garage of those houses. I drive through an area like that to get home. Some of the people living there get on the piss every day of the week. I wonder how they afford that ?

The benefit + crime + selling stolen goods + selling drugs + prostitution

I have people coming into work wanting quotes for services on their BMW's to be charged to WINZ.... yeah right. That seems fair. What I joke. I just tell them I wont do work for WINZ. When asked why, I just tell them I wont support corruption... because thats how "I" see it

We all need to harden up and get real. If you want to get ahead and acheive...get out there and do it. Its not easy, it actually requires alot of hard work. But the benefit will all be yours. And the more people in NZ with a better attitude than they now have, would have a huge effect on our economy.

END OF RANT

[zenetti 0]

good on ya Glenn, but you forgot to mention the extraordinary amount of Sky dishes you also see as well!

[CamB 48]

We all need to harden up and get real. If you want to get ahead and acheive...get out there and do it. Its not easy, it actually requires alot of hard work. But the benefit will all be yours. And the more people in NZ with a better attitude than they now have, would have a huge effect on our economy.

Glenn - I actually mostly agree with you, except ... I just don't think the solution is that easy. A cynic (ie, me) would say that there is no country in the world (now or in history) getting this right, and therefore its not possible.

If I could have my ideal, it would be the same as you - a good safety net for those who need it and no-one abusing the system. But I'd rather have the system with abuse and pay the tax accordingly than the alternative.

Work for the Dole is simply an awesome idea, I don't see a single reason why I should be working 8-12 hours a day 5 days a week to have some piece of crap low life sit around and do nothing but produce kids.

Work for the dole would be administratively prohibitively expensive (making sure people work, etc) and extremely likely to result in work which either takes away from the private sector (bad), or is spent on unproductive/unnecessary assets (also bad). It will be a poor allocation of resources.

Finally - this is a useful link http://www.libertarianz.org.nz/taxcalc/

Everyone loves Libertarian - its a shame it wouldn't work. Find a country where it does?

[Apex 693]

Work for the dole would be administratively prohibitively expensive (making sure people work, etc) and extremely likely to result in work which either takes away from the private sector (bad), or is spent on unproductive/unnecessary assets (also bad). It will be a poor allocation of resources.

Do it P.D style, find a big field with long grass and give them old style tools to mow it down, send them to retirement homes to do maintenance, get them cleaning the streets and removing tag in the most manual way thinkable… a few days of that and they will soon be looking at a real job.

[CamB 48]

Maybe so. Maybe not.

Seriously the devil is in the details. Think it all the way through:

- applies to DPB?

- to those caring for sick relatives?

- how do workers get to the field? Buses? Cash/tickets for public transport?

- does the guy who normally mows the field get angry because his business is affected?

- whose field is it anyway? Public field or private field (applies more to retirement home)? Do private companies want indentured labour? Is it right to do it for free?

- how do you stop slacking? Big stick? Gun? Withhold payments? How can that be fairly administered? Is it even legal?

- can you call in sick? Even if you are really sick?

- what's the admin cost?

- how do you find a new job when you are busy in a field all day?

- do you care that it might be extremely demeaning to have people doing manual labour essentially for the sake of it? For this, lets assume that a minimum of 50% are genuinely out of work

And the real key ---> what if unemployment became 10% and there weren't enough jobs to go around (which is implicit in the whole concept of making dole bludgers work - that you believe they are bludging and choosing not to get a job). Do you still want work for the dole?

If I was going to do anything, I would consider more dole (etc) if you worked, with appropriate work schemes implemented. Even then I am really, really uncomfortable with this for the simple reason that it interferes with the free market.

Either way, a little research might show you that:

- there aren't THAT many long term unemployed, although everyone seems to know someone

- studies show that "work for dole" type schemes aren't worth it

(edit) Put my money where my mouth is - google found me this (I most definitely do not have a history of reading blogs like this - can't stand them):

http://www.thestandard.org.nz/nats-would-i...k-for-the-dole/

Yes, its a biased blog, but the stats are just that, stats.

Edited October 8, 2008 by CamB

[Avenged.SSE 0]

I think the whole 'there are heaps of people on the dole so if we get rid of it' position is oh so implausible. In reality, and I know this from personal experience, because I regularly deal with people that need some form of social support - there are actually not as many people as you think on the dole just for the hell of it - most people are actually quite keen to work (if they can). The dole is there to create some form of social equity, without social equity we are all f**ked. The difference between the rich and the poor is what governs overall health of the country, the bigger the gap, the worse the health (regardless of overall wealth).

The employment you get handed to you when you're on the dole is utter sh*t (like NZ airport) whereby you can't even determine how many hours each shift will end up being. This idea of a 'victim blame model' i.e. the majority on the dole are non-contributing idiots who are a drain on the economy is really non-conducive. It's quite easy to go ahead and say oh they are the problem because they're just lazy... But that's a pathetic approach, look at problems on a grass roots level and see why such problems are created.

The dole pays out around $16.4k annually... feasible? I think not - reality is politicians lie - they will tell you what ever you want to hear to get elected, it's how the world works. I saw a big ACT sign in Glen Innes on the way to uni that said 'Zero tolerance for crime' a common tactic for politicians - If you buy into this crap, I suggest you go and read some criminology studies (as pointed out by my law lecturer) - crime is actually going down, rather than up - this is as a result of evidence, not some BS ACT is trying to cook up to get your vote.

Regarding people with BMWs charging quotes to WINZ ~ What's wrong with that? Obviously if it's a brandnew M6, then something's wrong somewhere, but if it's an E30, E36, E39, E46 etc then what's wrong with it? People are stupid, they often buy sh*t they can't afford and get huge loans to pay for it, that's hardly a sign of corruption. How many people around NZ on $30k salaries have cars worth more than their annual salary on loan? Look on trademe...

Moral of the story ~ don't let your personal bias affect your judgment, always always always look at reports and read (neutral) literature to get a better idea of a situation.

[Jamez 2147483647]

wooohoooo national

[huff3r 347]

So heres my opinion... lol if anyone even cares

I'm an 18 year old student living off my student loan. I have a part time job and work 25 hours a week so i can support myself and pay for my racecar. Even though i am getting $150 a week interest free from the government it isnt anywhere near enough to live on in hamilton, and i'm not even buying booze everyweek... i must've bought about 10 boxes in total this whole year. So at the end of the year i will be earning minimum wage trying to pay off a $12,000 student debt. Some may say that i should have worked in high school. I was a top student in my class, and i didnt get there by working at the local mcdonalds after school everyday. In saying that i did try to get a job, but not many people are willing to take on 16 yr olds, even though they can pay them peanuts.

The reason i cant get a student allowance is because apparently my dad earns too much, even though he lives over 500kms away, he is forced to help out because the government believes you dont have to pay for your kids education unless you can afford to. Even worse, his job could be moving overseas next year, so he will be over 500kms away... a bit hard to go home for tea if i cant afford food on the weekend. However i know of some people whos parents hide everything in companmies, earn 3 times what my parents do and still get $180 a week for free. Is that fair?

My parents worked hard for their money. As a kid i saw my dad very little as he worked for an oil company and was always travelling. There is no way my mother could have worked, because there simply isnt enough time in the day to sort out a household and look after her 3 kids, plus another 2 she cared for.

She now works, but can only do so because her eldest two have left home. She is still struggling to mantain a busy household and has been forced to look for a job with less hours. But i am glad she didnt work when i was a kid.. i remember many happy times during my childhood, and none of them were at kindy or even school. In fact i have no memory of kindy at all, so that certainly didnt leave much of an impression on me.

I am a man of the world, i have been around... i lived in singapore and thailand, and i must say it would be a said day if New Zealand dropped to their standards of poverty. In thailand the dole involves lying on the street half naked with a cup in front of you, begging. Do we really want that in NZ?

I believe nationals policies will only make it worse for everyone out there who wasnt lucky enough to get a good education, or a good job and couldnt manage to fight for themselves. Some people out there are just unlucky.

WOW... didnt expect to write that much

Edited October 9, 2008 by HUFF3R

[M325is 0]

Gay, our little bimmersport poll looks nothing like the real thing at the moment, its looking a lot like the last election polls at this stage in the campaign. UBER GAY!

That sparks a question. To all of you who did not vote labour, what will you do if labour gets in again? Will you consider leaving NZ?

My answer... quite possibly leave for Aussie. My partner definitely wants to leave for Auzzie.

What are the chances and legality of building a new gated town which runs under its own laws?

Edited October 10, 2008 by M325is

[JiB 0]

What are the chances and legality of building a new gated town which runs under its own laws?

I was under the impression that's what Tama Iti and the Tuhoi crowd tried/is trying to do.

[M325is 0]

I was under the impression that's what Tama Iti and the Tuhoi crowd tried/is trying to do.

A gated community with out guns and violence

[JiB 0]

A gated community with out guns and violence

And who gets to dictate the rules within this community? Without a higher executive democratic rule will be difficult. Have a look at athens, "direct democracy" ended up being who could shout the loudest.

Or maybe you could run an oligarchy with a select few dictating the terms to the rest of the community? But without higher authority and legitimisation that a state provides you might have to resort to guns/violence to a) keep order keep people out c) keep people in d) make people do their share.

The alternative to guns/violence is psychological and ethical training which takes time.

Or perhaps I'm too Weberian to accept that humans can all think the same thing and do the same thing - live co-operatively and peacefully without a form of executive governance.

Edited October 11, 2008 by JiB

[mr E34 11]

National.................again, too many dickheads in Labour with the Greens hanging in there.

edit: Have always said National & Labour are natural coalition partners, centre right balanced by centre left.

Edited October 13, 2008 by mr E34

[dickhead 0]

the labour party is a joke, anyone who thinks otherwise is one of those pussy ass men or a "strong, independant woman" (their self analysis). I stopped in at auckland airport yesterday on a return flight from fiji and was completely blown away at the amouln of tongans and islanders there, virtually all morbidly obese. to pretend these people will help the workforce is insane.

labour, and the baby boomer generation they represent will never let go of their insane and impractical liberal ideas which never work out.

[kingkarl 136]

wow... so much to digest.

Firstly, to Glenn.

I'm going to vote National though and see if a businessman with a track record of generating wealth can make a difference with our internal situation. I've always maintained that a government should be run like a business and career politicians dont have the knowledge in that field and vice versa with other matters.

Really, as far as I'm concerned, I couldnt care to much about it. No government has ever helped me in anyway. I've never had a hand out in all my life

I pay more taxes than alot of people earn. I employ people, pay ACC, Tax, and every other expence. I survive and prosper because I work hard. You will get nothing from no one without working for it. Standing in a cue, grissling with your hand out will never get you any where. I broke my leg.... I went to work on crutches. I tore my archilles tendon.. I went to work in a wheel chair. I get a cold....I go to work. If you want something.... GO AND GET IT YOURSELF Dont rely on others to give it to you. It doesnt work like that. As for whos in government... I couldnt really give a rats arse untill it effects me...if it does....I'm out of here lock stock & barrel.

This post was bordering on inspirational. As a country we need people like you who are motivated, intelligent and hard working. In a couple few year's I'll enter the full time workforce. I want to be hard working and I want to do something constructive with my life. My stubborn personality dictates i find it extremely difficult for other people to pay my way... I hate it when my parents offer to pay for warrants etc on my car. But that is not to say that anyone should have to work X number of hours a week because if you'd rather have a more easy going lifestyle that is entirely your choice.

However I dont beleive it is a god given right that if you want to have several children, you can sit on your ass get pregnant and it then becomes the states responsibility to pay for your kids upbringing. When (excuse generalistation) in most cases they become just as much as a future dependant as their parents. Sure, if your put into a position where your left with several children in your care and you cannot afford to feed them you should definately be helped out financially, i have no problem with my (very very small) tax contribution going towards these situations.

Going back to the choice thing... I think labour is slowly turning us into a socialist state. They are telling us what lightbulbs to use, how to raise our children, how much water we are allowed, they're taxing the sh*t out of food and petrol when hard working low income earners cant even afford it as it is and inevitably the driving age will eventually go up and we wont be able to buy any decent fireworks.

You can see this happening to australia. They are begininng to censor the internet of any material the government deems inappropriate and everywhere you look over there, there are hundreds of conservative rules and regulations.

I do beleive that labour has done for the most part a pretty good job with managing the country over the last 9 years. Only recently i think they have lost the plot, become lazy and not focused on making policy that will actually make a difference to society. A good example is gangs. Crack down on gangs and we will be so much better off but because it isnt going to be easy, we havent seen any action from them. I dont know if many people saw the debate last night, but John Key was quite clever in pointing out Labour's extremely good reterick but poor record.

The free trade deals they have negotiated have been outstanding and i think they have to be applauded for that. How a bonehead like Phil Goff accomplished it is beyond me.

You are expected to work. My own mother got pulled up the other day by a cop, and got a ticket for speeding. When asked what her occupation was, my mum replied "A Mother," and the cop scribbled U/E on the ticket - unemployed. Boy, did she rip into this young guy!

To eddy:

I have so much respect for my mother and every other mother in the world. It is the single hardest job there is bar none. There is no greater responsibility on the planet. I am sure you and your mother are fantastic people and I'm sure she is a fantastic mother and it probably takes up more of her time than 90% of jobs out there, but i don't beleive she can claim to be "employed" as a mother, so I can understand the cop's actions.

There hasnt been any discussion of labour's universal student allowance policy, which brings me to HUFF3R"s interesting post.

I'm an 18 year old student living off my student loan. I have a part time job and work 25 hours a week so i can support myself and pay for my racecar. Even though i am getting $150 a week interest free from the government it isnt anywhere near enough to live on in hamilton, and i'm not even buying booze everyweek... i must've bought about 10 boxes in total this whole year. So at the end of the year i will be earning minimum wage trying to pay off a $12,000 student debt.

The reason i cant get a student allowance is because apparently my dad earns too much, even though he lives over 500kms away, he is forced to help out because the government believes you dont have to pay for your kids education unless you can afford to. Even worse, his job could be moving overseas next year, so he will be over 500kms away... a bit hard to go home for tea if i cant afford food on the weekend. However i know of some people whos parents hide everything in companmies, earn 3 times what my parents do and still get $180 a week for free. Is that fair?

I know people in a similar situation to you also and it sucks. I hope you do get an allowance in the future, because acheivers like you clearly deserve it. But i think there are issues with giving students a no questions asked universal allowance. There are waaaaaaay too many people at uni studying useless sh*t like Bachelor of art that should not be there. Under labour, these people would get paid to study. Or worse again, people that study in NZ, have it paid for by hardworking people like Glenn and then piss off overseas to earn huge dollars in the UK for the rest of their working lives contributing nothing to our economy.

There is no return on our investment into these people so i think it should be compulsary to return to NZ say, within 2 years of starting your OE to contribute to our economy. Or if you choose to bugger off overseas, you must pay back all grants you received from the NZ government whilst studying in NZ.

but its all besides the point because i cant vote anyway haha

[dickhead 0]

I was under the impression that's what Tama Iti and the Tuhoi crowd tried/is trying to do.

yeah, but thoses idiots couldn't organise titties in a strip club

[M325is 0]

eventually go up and we wont be able to buy any decent fireworks.

I wish they would ban un-controlled household fireworks, especially now my horse lives close to suburbia. So many horses die every year due to fire works, I'm so sick of it, not to mention all the other animals that die or get injured.

I would say just ban fireworks in jam packed housing areas such as Dannemora, but then they would take there fireworks out into the country and not know the dangers of it.

Wow does that mean I like labour for one thing? Not changing my vote though.

[CamB 48]

You madam, are the very definition of NIMBY.

[M325is 0]

You madam, are the very definition of NIMBY.

I'm not up with the computer or text talk what does NIMBY stand for?

[Guest Simon*]

I'm not up with the computer or text talk what does NIMBY stand for?

I believe it stands for Not In My Backyard - and yes Shell the shoe fits

[tire 10]

loving my lonely green vote

[briancol 3]

loving my lonely green vote

How can a Bimmersporter possibly be a "Greenie"?

[JiB 0]

How can a Bimmersporter possibly be a "Greenie"?

Because you can play the blame game and say that Agriculture creates more than half of New Zealand's carbon emissions.

[M325is 0]

Here's hope that the Bimmersport poll is correct, I really really can't stand the thought of IT running the country again.