The Bimmersport Election Poll

[Carl 3]

Personally, even if I was still a student I'd see it for the bullshit desperation it is.

Comments?

All parties pull out bullshit election promises, it's politics

This time last election National was leading the polls but look where they ended up, polls like this here and on websites are notoriously useless

If only there was a decent centre party with a decent prospect to vote for

[martyyn 2]

I have a question regarding an election issue. Seeing as we have quite a few students here, who is suddenly swayed by Labour's last ditch "universal allowance" bribe? They used interest free loans last time to buy the student vote and here they go and do it again. It worked pretty successfully too last time it seems.

Do we want our youth to go to higher education or do we want them leaving school at 16 because they cant afford it and so dont see the point in staying on at all?

The cost of a degree is more than ever as are living costs. Lets not forget that the vast majority of students get no allowance at all. I was lucky. I got $90 a week, but then my rent was $95 a week so even if you get one its worth sod all. My parents were just over the threshold and they couldnt afford anything, so I was stuck with taking out a loan with National hiking the fees every year and hiking the interest every year.

Im sorry Simon, but I strongly believe that higher education should be for ANYONE who is capable and not be based on whether you can afford it or not.

Besides, Labour have been talking about a universal allowance for some time and if it takes an election to get it, then Im all for it.

[tire 10]

I just want it to be OVER

[westy 614]

^^ agree with that.

John Keys telemarketing on the phone last night lost any chance of him gaining my vote.Grrr

[*Glenn* 854]

^^ agree with that.

John Keys telemarketing on the phone last night lost any chance of him gaining my vote.Grrr

Did he ask you out ??

[bravo 35]

Simon - Keiti is considering voting Labour for that reason.

Shelley - the poll is spread over too long a period even to be a true account of what bimmersporters will vote. Bet you many have changed their minds more than once since voting.

Not to mention, bsport is hardly an even cross-section of society.

[Mike 1]

Do we want our youth to go to higher education or do we want them leaving school at 16 because they cant afford it and so dont see the point in staying on at all?

the other argument is that any money spent on an allowance is just less money to be spent on the universities. So we are going to end up with more people at uni and less university funding to pay for them, consequently the quality of the education suffers.

I'd like to see the parental income scrapped. Keep the funding for allowance the same but divvy it up amongst every one, say $100 a week as an allowance, then if more is needed up to $100 or so could be loaned. Paying for everyone's living would just be too costly and encourage too many to go to uni when they would be better off as an apprentice or someother training. And scrap the 25 year old bit too, along with adult entrance for uni, its just dumbing the system down.

Other option is to pay for degrees depending on what the county needs, and have it go to the students with better grades. Eg, teachers, medicine, and engineers. Need some way to keep them in NZ though. If someone wants to study Ancient Greece or make sculptures good on them, but why should the tax payer pay for someone else's interests?

As long as they scrap parental income testing, thats wrong. The wealthy avoid it through trusts, and most who are over still get bugger all from the olds. So you need to have poor parents, or wealthy parents. middle NZ gets screwed.

Edited November 6, 2008 by Mike

[antony 0]

Personally, even if I was still a student I'd see it for the bullshit desperation it is.

Comments?

Student at Otago University. Everyone I know voting for Labour, isn't voting for that reason.

Your a student for 3-4 years, a bit of hardship is expected. I don't want to be F'd by the tax man when I'm working because I had a holiday at University.

You can vote at University before you leave for home, one of friends voted for the Greens, she choose them by going 'eeny meeny miiny moe'. I swear there should be an IQ test before you vote.

[antony 0]

As long as they scrap parental income testing, thats wrong. The wealthy avoid it through trusts, and most who are over still get bugger all from the olds. So you need to have poor parents, or wealthy parents. middle NZ gets screwed.

Way to common. Edited November 6, 2008 by antony

[bravo 35]

I'd like to see the parental income scrapped. Keep the funding for allowance the same but divvy it up amongst every one, say $100 a week as an allowance, then if more is needed up to $100 or so could be loaned. Paying for everyone's living would just be too costly and encourage too many to go to uni when they would be better off as an apprentice or someother training. And scrap the 25 year old bit too, along with adult entrance for uni, its just dumbing the system down.

That won't work either. my g/f has no parents, and bugger all money as she has no quals and so works for min wage. She wants to go to uni to study to be a midwife. We've worked it out. With Student loan, allowance including max accom supplement, its still not enough. Part-time work is not an option in her course (according to current students) as she has to do unpaid shift work at the hospital for most of the year as part of the training.

I'm not all that keen to reach into my own pocket, but we're running out of ideas. So if the allowance was watered down to spread amongst all students, she'd be even more f**ked. She's not dumb, will pass her course and then become a taxpayer earning $50/60k. But needs every government cent in the meantime to get there.

I know the problem (wealthy kids with parents money hidden), but I have no idea how to stop that.

Someone I know can't get an allowance as her olds earn too much. But she has been able to work during her course and because she can bludge off mum and dad (and they pay all her course fees), she actually earns enough to live off. So her student loan is sitting in a term deposit earning 8%. She has been at uni for almost 3 years and has $30k sitting in the bank. The day she leaves she'll pay off her loan and the balance will damn-near be a deposit on a house.

So those that don't need it are ripping the system, and those that do aren't getting enough!

Oh and you can stop it with the scrapping of adult entrance too, plenty of older people who never got the bit of paper as it wasn't needed in their time who just want to get it to stay competitive in the labour market. I know fo someone who trained as a nurse (not a degree in those days), worked in public health for years, moved to the private sector and now runs a large retirement village and hospital. She is going back to uni as an adult to get a commerce degree and management quals so if (when?) she wants a change of scene she can get another management job. She should so allowed to be able to get in to uni - what do you want her to do, collect her pension and die quietly? (she's 50).

For a smart guy Mike, I don't think you've thought this through properly. You do make some interesting points. Everyone sees things from there own perspective (me included).

At least adults going to uni really want it, and aren't just doing it because they don't know what to do with their lives, like many younger students do.

Edited November 7, 2008 by bravo

[Mike 1]

That won't work either. my g/f has no parents, and bugger all money as she has no quals and so works for min wage. She wants to go to uni to study to be a midwife. We've worked it out. With Student loan, allowance including max accom supplement, its still not enough. Part-time work is not an option in her course (according to current students) as she has to do unpaid shift work at the hospital for most of the year as part of the training.

I'm not all that keen to reach into my own pocket, but we're running out of ideas. So if the allowance was watered down to spread amongst all students, she'd be even more f**ked. She's not dumb, will pass her course and then become a taxpayer earning $50/60k. But needs every government cent in the meantime to get there.

Which is why the system needs looking at. I'm not sure on how the figures should work, those were only ideas. It almost needs to be different for each area of the country, obviously its much cheaper to live in palmy than Auckland, should the incomes reflect that? and who pays if someone wants to go to Auckland instead of palmy? Tax-payers or add the extra onto the students loan?

Under what I suggested your GF wouldn't receive any less income per week, she would just be required to pay a larger portion of it back. Which I think is fairer for all, given often the parental income system fails, leaving many graduates with $45K + loans simply because their parents earned just over the threshold. (BTW the system worked how it was intended for me, but know many who it didn't.)

Oh and you can stop it with the scrapping of adult entrance too, plenty of older people who never got the bit of paper as it wasn't needed in their time who just want to get it to stay competitive in the labour market. I know fo someone who trained as a nurse (not a degree in those days), worked in public health for years, moved to the private sector and now runs a large retirement village and hospital. She is going back to uni as an adult to get a commerce degree and management quals so if (when?) she wants a change of scene she can get another management job. She should so allowed to be able to get in to uni - what do you want her to do, collect her pension and die quietly? (she's 50).

That wasn't how I intended it sorry, I'm all for older people re-educating themselves, and not in anyway saying that they shouldn't be allowed a uni education. A lot of the adult students do really well as they work so much harder to catch-up, and keep up the effort even when they caught up with those straight from school. But why bother with UE at all then if people who miss out because they screwed around at school can just wait a couple of years then enrol? Maybe several tests or exams to ensure basic numeracy and literacy wouldn't be a bad idea for people wanting to bypass UE? (with appropriate course if they fail these before entrance is granted)

Your comment on older students is also true, and universal allowance would only see more younger at uni because they dont know what else to do.

[*Glenn* 854]

This could sum it up

Whether Labour or, National, I think you'll get a kick out of this!

A little boy goes to his dad and asks, 'What is Politics?'

Dad says, 'Well son, let me try to explain it this way:

I am the head of the family, so call me The Prime Minister.

Your mother is the administrator of the money, so we call her the Government.

We are here to take care of your needs, so we will call you the People.

The nanny, we will consider her the Working Class.

And your baby brother, we will call him the Future.

Now think about that and see if it makes sense.'

So the little boy goes off to bed thinking about what Dad has said.

Later that night,! he hears his baby brother crying, so he gets up to check on him.

He finds that the baby has severely soiled his nappy.

So the little boy goes to his parent's room and finds his mother asleep.

Not wanting to wake her, he goes to the nanny's room. Finding the door locked, he peeks in the keyhole and see s his father in bed with the nanny.

He gives up and goes back to bed.

The next morning, the little boy say's to his father, 'Dad, I think I understand the concept of politics now. '

The father says, 'Good, son, tell me in your own words what you think politics is all about.'

The little boy replies, 'The prime Minister is screwing the Working Class while the Government is sound asleep. The People are being ignored and the Future is in deep sh*t.'