polley 916 Report post Posted October 11, 2011 I agree the paper work is PC bullshit, but you have to have it to cover your ass in case something happens. I also agree it has taken longer than it probably should have, but who knows what other implications there are. All we know is what the media is telling us, and they are sh*t at the best of times. I'm sure if we had all the expert stay at home mums from the trademe message boards running this it would all be sorted out by now Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
my_e36 43 Report post Posted October 11, 2011 Novel thought, can they implode the reef to re-float the ship? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kingkarl 136 Report post Posted October 11, 2011 Novel thought, can they implode the reef to re-float the ship? Depends how bad the damage to the hull is I guess Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
deeveus 81 Report post Posted October 11, 2011 Novel thought, can they implode the reef to re-float the ship? When all else fails explosions win. I'm always a fan of bangs but enough power to blow a reef up would probably make that ship into several small boats lol. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
westy 614 Report post Posted October 11, 2011 Captain arrested. Probably pissed. Also, confiscate boat until bill is paid. Easy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
polley 916 Report post Posted October 11, 2011 70 containers have also fallen into the sea over night. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
allan 295 Report post Posted October 11, 2011 http://www.stuff.co.nz/environment/5770592...unded-ship-Rena click on the "next" it has a few photo's one picture of how stuck this ship is. As stated NZ herald 70 containers have fallen off the ship so far. If that sort of force is present to knock them off why can't the powers to be us the bad weather to attempt to move the ship off the reef or it that to simple. Wondering if the locals would like to meet the Officers and capatian of the Rena behind the local tool shed and get things sorted. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
westy 614 Report post Posted October 11, 2011 Also heard their liability runs to a cap of $11 mil. That outta cover it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jacko 2158 Report post Posted October 11, 2011 (edited) That is one crazy low liability I have 10 million liability cover while flying RC planes! Edited October 11, 2011 by Jacko Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bellicose 9 Report post Posted October 11, 2011 No but immediate action instead of waiting a few days for the red tape to be cut i.e immediately starting the removal of oil and containers to prevent or at least lessen the potential environmental impact especially when the weather was good - instead Maritime NZ stood around with their hands up their ass. Sorry, don't agree at all. Utter PC CRAP that nothing was done immediately. Talk about an ambulance at the bottom of the cliff. You don't always have the luxury of planning every step in an unexpected disaster - sometimes common sense needs to prevail. It's not rocket science that the boat was probably going to leak oil, the weather was fine for at least four days after the stranding. A boat does not take nearly five days to get from Auckland to Tauranga. Oil could have been pumped from forward to aft from the word go (they were only doing this yesterday), & pumping off the boat the next day. Boats could have been out with booms to encompass the boat & contain the oil, there was a guy on TV last night with a viable solution for soaking up oil - a product world proven & already used here in NZ. Powers that be were not interested, he was told to come back to them AFTER this now "disaster" :wacko: F%#k the paper work - sort that later! It was a case of everyone running for cover - boat owners waiting on their insurance company, insurance company looking for cheapest recovery/salvage options & none of them giving a rats arse for this country & the impact this is having on it! Our powers that be should have completely overridden the above & insisted that a proactive approach was taken, if not, organised themselves - not sat with their hands up their arse as referred above. I agree that it does require a professional approach as for salvage etc, but as I said above - containing/ removing oil from the boat aint rocket science & would have no hinderance into the salvage planning. This whole episode is a total discrace. Clean green image - yea right! NZ powers that be once again waiting to see who will put there hand up. The red tape in this country f**ks me right off. It's ok though because the NZ Police will step in soon and take control of the whole situation................well they are the most experienced at things like this...............aren't they? They do after all know everything 'bout mines and mines rescue, oh hang on....... Novel thought, can they implode the reef to re-float the ship? People are crying over a few birds, what do you think the greenies would do if you start blowing up bits of reef / coastline. Also, confiscate boat until bill is paid. Easy. Yep. These guys are in the top 2 in the world for situations like this, they have crew and equipment in Singapore and airfreight 99% of stuff they need to start a job, could've been here in 2 days. I know someone that works for them, he's based in Holland. He says what's happening is a joke (the red tape, not what's happening to the boat) http://www.titansalvage.com/ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jacko 2158 Report post Posted October 11, 2011 Who's the head monkey in charge of the clean up from day one? Fire his ass ASAP, in fact boot him out of the country for being an epic fail. What the bleep happened to "can do". Screw OSH etc, use commonsense and fix the bleeping problem quick. Then once its been dealt with, FINE the bejebus out of the idiots who caused it. I grew up in the BOP, Moved from ohope/whakatane/the mount/tauranga. Hopefully it doesnt turn into a *total* balls up due to red tape and people unable to take decisive action for fear of screwing up right before an election. I have absolutely no experience with salvage big ass ships, but I can still think of UMPTEEN different ways of handling it quickly. There are plenty of heavy lift heli's in the south pacific, They shouldve been there from hour one lifting containers off it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bellicose 9 Report post Posted October 11, 2011 What the bleep happened to "can do". Screw OSH etc, use commonsense and fix the bleeping problem quick. Then once its been dealt with, FINE the bejebus out of the idiots who caused it. I grew up in the BOP, Moved from ohope/whakatane/the mount/tauranga. Hopefully it doesnt turn into a *total* balls up due to red tape and people unable to take decisive action for fear of screwing up right before an election. I have absolutely no experience with salvage big ass ships, but I can still think of UMPTEEN different ways of handling it quickly. There are plenty of heavy lift heli's in the south pacific, They shouldve been there from hour one lifting containers off it. Agree 100% mate. Who's the head monkey in charge of the clean up from day one? Fire his ass ASAP, in fact boot him out of the country for being an epic fail. The problem is they would have to fire a "commitee", there would be a huge one "in charge" of this mess. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Docile 64 Report post Posted October 12, 2011 (edited) a reasonable person in charge or a person who aint scared of some beaurocrats would put in practicality over red tape IMO. i.e. put containment measures in place asap with or without beaurocratic approval, instead of waiting for the go ahead (i would if i was in charge). would assume there is minimal danger in putting one of those oil spill containment buoeys or nets they use around the ship to stop the spread as you wont be that close to the ship to be in any danger. common sense really. if there is a small fire in your kitchen ( oil in fry pan on fire for example) and you caught it while its still manageable, do you call 111 and wait for the fire fighters to give you a go ahead to try and use that fire extiguisher under your kitchen sink to put it out or wait for them to come when your whole house is burning down to the ground? its the same principle. do what you can to minimise consequences without putting yourself or other people in great danger. Edited October 12, 2011 by Docile Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bellicose 9 Report post Posted October 12, 2011 Exactly. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sam@TMBMW 0 Report post Posted October 12, 2011 You're all aware then, that the booms only work in almost completely calm conditions, and they might have contained all the oil right up until today when the wave action rendered them useless. the choices made might have been different, but the outcome would have been the same. Does the guy who offered the inflatable barges have any experience whatsover with transferring fuel from a stricken container ship 22km out to sea? Or was he plucking figures out of thin air when he said he could have had it done in 4 days? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bravo 35 Report post Posted October 12, 2011 A mate on the Golden Bay quipped: "Rena's AIS status is "Anchored/Moored". Someone on the bridge has a sense of humour... At least the reef is now RADAR conspicuous." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pjay 8 Report post Posted October 12, 2011 I read it's not oil as such but crude diesel which is almost solid at sea water temperatures. Filthy stuff :s Oh dear. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kingkarl 136 Report post Posted October 12, 2011 The day of the crash was the captains birthday. Ugh. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hybrid 1044 Report post Posted October 12, 2011 What the bleep happened to "can do". Screw OSH etc, use commonsense and fix the bleeping problem quick. That went out of the window since those trampolines with walls started popping up in back yards. Its basically a metaphore what greatness MMP has bred I miss the 80's Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
huff3r 347 Report post Posted October 12, 2011 http://www.stuff.co.nz/environment/5770592...unded-ship-Rena click on the "next" it has a few photo's one picture of how stuck this ship is. As stated NZ herald 70 containers have fallen off the ship so far. If that sort of force is present to knock them off why can't the powers to be us the bad weather to attempt to move the ship off the reef or it that to simple. Wondering if the locals would like to meet the Officers and capatian of the Rena behind the local tool shed and get things sorted. Move the ship off the reef? They don't even know if the damned thing can still float! Moving it off the reef could very well cause far more damage, and just create another hazardous reef (shipwreck) to avoid... However lifting the containers off with Heli's would be a bloody good start, sure it'd take forever but at least it would be doing something! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
polley 916 Report post Posted October 12, 2011 I read it's not oil as such but crude diesel which is almost solid at sea water temperatures. Filthy stuff :s Oh dear. It is, its not like normal oil that most people are thinking of.. You cant just go there and pump it out, it needs to be heated first. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hybrid 1044 Report post Posted October 12, 2011 Move the ship off the reef? They don't even know if the damned thing can still float! Moving it off the reef could very well cause far more damage, and just create another hazardous reef (shipwreck) to avoid... However lifting the containers off with Heli's would be a bloody good start, sure it'd take forever but at least it would be doing something! The only chopper capable of such a task is the russian one that get hired down here every now and again. On the contrary 40 foot containers actually weigh quite a bit. and that's empty Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
polley 916 Report post Posted October 12, 2011 Im not sure a chopper would handle getting blown around in those winds, especially with a container hanging underneath it. They cant move it off the reef, you can't just drag it off, and if you could it would sink. It's going to break in half, and then its going to sink, and then sh*t will go everywhere and there is nothing anyone can do about it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
5amchris 45 Report post Posted October 12, 2011 Also heard their liability runs to a cap of $11 mil. That outta cover it. I read "NSURANCE COVER The stricken ship is covered for up to $5 billion in insurance claims - with up to a fifth of that set aside for pollution liability. Owners of the Rena, Costamare Inc, are part of the world's biggest group of ship insurers and have organised substantial legal cover for the ship's captain and crew. Costamare arranged legal cover through its insurer P & I Services' New Zealand representative Alastair Irving, including for the lawyer Paul Mabey, QC, counsel for the ship's captain. Irving said the crew were being "well-supported" by the owner, who was extremely concerned for their welfare. He stressed the ship had "substantial" insurance, including both hull and machinery and liability insurance." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Michael. 2313 Report post Posted October 12, 2011 I thought it wouldn't be long until the hull started to give. It's going to be a catastrophic mess Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
