Tax payers dollars hard @ work!

[deeveus 81]

Yunno, I don't know why I bother paying my provisional, GST, terminal taxes e.t.c

How the hell will this trip help New Zealand as a country? I seriously doubt it will help anyone at all, bar themselves. If they really had to do it, why not economy class 110k just for flights!!!

Classic example of politicians shitting on the country.

Visit My Website

[_ethrty-Andy_ 2132]

Yunno, I don't know why I bother paying my provisional, GST, terminal taxes e.t.c

How the hell will this trip help New Zealand as a country? I seriously doubt it will help anyone at all, bar themselves. If they really had to do it, why not economy class 110k just for flights!!!

Classic example of politicians shitting on the country.

Visit My Website

If any single one of those parties was left out of it, they would be the first to contest the spending. those airfares would pay the average NZ salary for 2-3 years.

cattle class is probably not appropriate, i wouldnt expect my MPs to be in there even though i do, but first should be fine.

Edit: How about this example? im in the National camp (still) but i can see the stupidity in this. a tenth of this is still outrageous

Edited July 3, 2012 by _Ethrty-Andy_

[deeveus 81]

If any single one of those parties was left out of it, they would be the first to contest the spending. those airfares would pay the average NZ salary for 2-3 years.

cattle class is probably not appropriate, i wouldnt expect my MPs to be in there even though i do, but first should be fine.

Cattle class lol! What I was meaning is the fact that it costs less than half to travel in economy.

Ahhh yes, the Treaty of Waitangi, the piece of paper that's cost this country more than 6.7 to date. Out of curiosity, what exactly is costing 6.7 ?

This is how the buggers should be traveling IMO...

Edited July 3, 2012 by The Diesel Guy

[NZ BMW 368]

If you're not going to give decent salaries and perks then how can you expect good people to want to become MP's? Even if more than one in that group is not what I would consider of great value to the country.

When it comes to the National Library example above National actually scaled back the plan from what Labour had earmarked for the project. At the time the Labour Party howled with protest that they were not taking the nation's heritage seriously. FFS.

[Neal 544]

Nothing like politics or religon to spark debate ....

Bit like which is better , holden verse ford .... whoops that's right BMW site. um

[deeveus 81]

If you're not going to give decent salaries and perks then how can you expect good people to want to become MP's? Even if more than one in that group is not what I would consider of great value to the country.

When it comes to the National Library example above National actually scaled back the plan from what Labour had earmarked for the project. At the time the Labour Party howled with protest that they were not taking the nation's heritage seriously. FFS.

Spending 158k and by the time they food and piss about with expenditure it's probably 200k & that on perks for only 6 people is ridiculous - I can think of far more constructive ways to spend tax payers money than a trip to Europe, i.e put 3 cops into the workforce for a year and take rapists & murders off the streets & why should we pay for Smith's wife to go on that trip, what exactly does she do for New Zealand? They already get perks with govt. credit cards, travel & surface travel e.t.c which is a lot more than most civilians get. John Key is worth 50 million, so I doubt he's in it for the money & most MP's are very comfortable, check here : Visit My Website

Decent salaries yes, 200k for 4 useless MP's and an idiot speaker & his Mrs to piss off on a two week trip to Europe: No.

To give you an idea of the coin that's been blown on air & surface travel and accommodation : Visit My Website and remember, that's only from Jan-end of March.

Nothing like politics or religon to spark debate ....

Bit like which is better , holden verse ford .... whoops that's right BMW site. um

This is a far higher caliber debate is Holden vs Ford LOL!

Edited July 3, 2012 by The Diesel Guy

[NZ BMW 368]

Spending 158k and by the time they food and piss about with expenditure it's probably 200k & that on perks for only 6 people is ridiculous - I can think of far more constructive ways to spend tax payers money than a trip to Europe, i.e put 3 cops into the workforce for a year and take rapists & murders off the streets & why should we pay for Smith's wife to go on that trip, what exactly does she do for New Zealand? They already get perks with govt. credit cards, travel & surface travel e.t.c which is a lot more than most civilians get. John Key is worth 50 million, so I doubt he's in it for the money & most MP's are very comfortable, check here : Visit My Website

Decent salaries yes, 200k for 4 useless MP's and an idiot speaker & his Mrs to piss off on a two week trip to Europe: No.

To give you an idea of the coin that's been blown on air & surface travel and accommodation : Visit My Website and remember, that's only from Jan-end of March.

This is a far higher caliber debate is Holden vs Ford LOL!

I don't really think that an MP's personal worth is really that relevant and when it comes to "perks" they have to get to and from Wellington for their job. I don't know if you'd really call having to spend the week away from your family and drag yourself to the airport in the morning twice a week is that much of a perk. Also when it comes to credit cards, only ministers get those. I don't think their much of a perk, I have one at work and all I can use it for are things I would expense anyway.

I think the trip is worth something like 158K when you think that a business class fare (they may even fly business premier, I don't know) return to London is about 10k and then there are internal flights to all of those countries. Add the cost of hotels and incidentals you'd hit that 158k pretty fast. I would imagine they would have staff going too.

All I would say is that I think they're getting about what you would expect from someone who has that amount of travel as a requirement for their job and the quality of people who should be MP's (some don't meet that standard).

If I were an MP I'd make sure I got my "perks" because people like yourself will never be happy until they all live in shared dorms and get driven around in a Mazda 6.

[deeveus 81]

I don't really think that an MP's personal worth is really that relevant and when it comes to "perks" they have to get to and from Wellington for their job. I don't know if you'd really call having to spend the week away from your family and drag yourself to the airport in the morning twice a week is that much of a perk. Also when it comes to credit cards, only ministers get those. I don't think their much of a perk, I have one at work and all I can use it for are things I would expense anyway.

I think the trip is worth something like 158K when you think that a business class fare (they may even fly business premier, I don't know) return to London is about 10k and then there are internal flights to all of those countries. Add the cost of hotels and incidentals you'd hit that 158k pretty fast. I would imagine they would have staff going too.

All I would say is that I think they're getting about what you would expect from someone who has that amount of travel as a requirement for their job and the quality of people who should be MP's (some don't meet that standard).

If I were an MP I'd make sure I got my "perks" because people like yourself will never be happy until they all live in shared dorms and get driven around in a Mazda 6.

You mentioned the MP's are in it for the perk's & pay packet, but I mentioned that most of them are pretty well off & their pay packet wouldn't reflect their personal positions. I also think they should be allowed accommodation, however not high end and I certainly didn't mean living under a cardboard box.

Edited July 3, 2012 by The Diesel Guy

[my_e36 43]

Many politicians have that sense of entitlement that they grab/enjoy what they can within the law during their terms probably because they think they are elected by the people hence it makes it ok. I don't think it's ok, while I don't expect them to live in a backpackers or BnB, but there's no need for 5 stars hotel spending thousands on room service AND roaming mobile calls.

I can recall only a handful of politician around the world that live modestly and spend as little of public money when they go about the business even they are "entitled" to much more.

[deeveus 81]

Many politicians have that sense of entitlement that they grab/enjoy what they can within the law during their terms probably because they think they are elected by the people hence it makes it ok. I don't think it's ok, while I don't expect them to live in a backpackers or BnB, but there's no need for 5 stars hotel spending thousands on room service AND roaming mobile calls.

I can recall only a handful of politician around the world that live modestly and spend as little of public money when they go about the business even they are "entitled" to much more.

Is the mana party leader one of those?

[Allanw 1071]

When it comes to the National Library example above National actually scaled back the plan from what Labour had earmarked for the project. At the time the Labour Party howled with protest that they were not taking the nation's heritage seriously. FFS.

Besides, Labour wouldn't spend the money on aything useful, like they've listed on the ad - they'd spend it one more bludgers who deserve stuff because of their "Human rights", but the rest of us have to work to get the same (or less!).

[m325i 709]

You would be shocked at what 'top tier' corporates spend on stuff like this then.

[deeveus 81]

You would be shocked at what 'top tier' corporates spend on stuff like this then.

Kinda different tho mate, tax payers dollars are from working New Zealanders, corporates are obviously private companies, but yeah, I could only imagine the kinda dosh CEO's of large wealthy companies would go through.

Besides, Labour wouldn't spend the money on aything useful, like they've listed on the ad - they'd spend it one more bludgers who deserve stuff because of their "Human rights", but the rest of us have to work to get the same (or less!).

I guess National & Labour are like Holden vs Ford. They're both full of sh*t, both very uneconomical, both very badly made and don't stick to their claims & promises and every now and then cost you a lot of money.

Edited July 4, 2012 by The Diesel Guy

[NZ BMW 368]

Kinda different tho mate, tax payers dollars are from working New Zealanders, corporates are obviously private companies, but yeah, I could only imagine the kinda dosh CEO's of large wealthy companies would go through.

I guess National & Labour are like Holden vs Ford. They're both full of sh*t, both very uneconomical, both very badly made and don't stick to their claims & promises and every now and then cost you a lot of money.

This was the point I was trying to make - I don't see how public vs private money is any different. Shareholders deserve to know that their money is being spent wisely.

In much the way that a salesman would always expect a company car, laptop and mobile there are the things that come with the positions.

Moral of the story is: Get to the top, and stay there.

[deeveus 81]

This was the point I was trying to make - I don't see how public vs private money is any different. Shareholders deserve to know that their money is being spent wisely.

In much the way that a salesman would always expect a company car, laptop and mobile there are the things that come with the positions.

Moral of the story is: Get to the top, and stay there.

Hehe, sorry mate, but I'd have to disagree on that. My point of view is that everyone in this country is bound by the decisions and expenditure the cabinet/parliament makes. Private companies? Just don't use them or use another company.

[huff3r 347]

Hehe, sorry mate, but I'd have to disagree on that. My point of view is that everyone in this country is bound by the decisions and expenditure the cabinet/parliament makes. Private companies? Just don't use them or use another company.

I'd agree completely, there is no competition in the Public Sector. There is plenty of choice in the Private sector to drive costs down.

Public should be cheaper, don't like it? Then you're not a real politician are you? I thought people became politicians because they cared about what happened to their country, not because they wanted all expenses paid holidays 2-3 times a year, and more perks than their salary is worth.

Oh and in the private sector, i'd expect a company car yeah... a falcodore, not a 7-series BMW!

[NZ BMW 368]

I'd agree completely, there is no competition in the Public Sector. There is plenty of choice in the Private sector to drive costs down.

Public should be cheaper, don't like it? Then you're not a real politician are you? I thought people became politicians because they cared about what happened to their country, not because they wanted all expenses paid holidays 2-3 times a year, and more perks than their salary is worth.

Oh and in the private sector, i'd expect a company car yeah... a falcodore, not a 7-series BMW!

I was speaking more from a shareholder's perspective rather than a customer. Essentially every dollar a company spends on itself or retains rather than paying as a dividend is a dollar out of my pocket. The company needs to spend on some things but you don't want it to be excessive.

Also when you consider that a minister or the PM is pretty much the same as a CEO and then look at the budgets they look after relative to the size of a company which might be in the private sector where the CEO will be rocking something better than a Holden/Ford as well as a multi-million dollar pay packet, along with enjoying a proper private life and not having to fight an election every three years.

I also don't think these trips are holidays as such. Whenever I'm away from work people give me the "holiday" line. The reality is that you spend all day working, in meetings etc then night time socialising with customers/prospects who are not really your friends and then catching up on all the emails you missed because you couldn't get to them during the day.

I never thought I'd die in a ditch defending politicians of all people but I think a lot of the comments here are pretty simplistic in their outlook because MP's are an easy target.

[_ethrty-Andy_ 2132]

This is a far higher caliber debate is Holden vs Ford LOL!

...or is it?....

I guess National & Labour are like Holden vs Ford. They're both full of sh*t, both very uneconomical, both very badly made and don't stick to their claims & promises and every now and then cost you a lot of money.

[westy 614]

Yunno, I don't know why I bother paying my provisional, GST, terminal taxes e.t.c

How the hell will this trip help New Zealand as a country? I seriously doubt it will help anyone at all, bar themselves. If they really had to do it, why not economy class 110k just for flights!!!

Classic example of politicians shitting on the country.

Visit My Website

Dont worry, $110k is a piss in a pond.

Howabout we start saving some real money like, I dunno, the absurd wage subsidy that is WFF?

[Docile 64]

at least they didnt fly via private learjet.

[bmw.maniac 1]

So they should fly business.

No one representing NZ should have to stumble out of economy like a student on a working holiday.

[deeveus 81]

Dont worry, $110k is a piss in a pond.

Howabout we start saving some real money like, I dunno, the absurd wage subsidy that is WFF?

It is a tiny piss in the pond, but pure evidence that they just don't give a sh*t & think they can do whatever they like with our money.

[Docile 64]

i dont have a problem with them going business class there for "legitimate reasons"

Lets think of it this way. they are representing NZ on a meeting of world leaders. We should present them as our leaders and that said, they should arrive to their destination fresh and relaxed somewhat.

Have you guys experienced a 24hours (or somewhat a long flight with lots of stop overs) economy flight?? its a mission +1 and some more. i was drained when i got to my destination.

and it does say some of the costs are covered by the hosting government.

BUT i would be pissed if they used the travel budget to travel for personal reasons around europe for a week.

[deeveus 81]

i don't have a problem with them going business class there for "legitimate reasons"

Lets think of it this way. they are representing NZ on a meeting of world leaders. We should present them as our leaders and that said, they should arrive to their destination fresh and relaxed somewhat.

Have you guys experienced a 24hours (or somewhat a long flight with lots of stop overs) economy flight?? its a mission +1 and some more. i was drained when i got to my destination.

and it does say some of the costs are covered by the hosting government.

BUT i would be pissed if they used the travel budget to travel for personal reasons around europe for a week.

Yes mate but you paid for your trip yourself, I'd put up with flying in baggage if it was free to Europe & 48k between 7 makes that about $600 per night per person for the duration, a bit excessive.

When I paid my taxes last year, it was enough for two of the return flights.

[DRTDVL 0]

Modern Government is less about doing what i right and in the best interests of the country and more about doing what is popular.

It was very interesting listening to talkback last night when i was heading home - there where countless people calling and complaining about Dental care and the costs involved, they where commenting that the government should be providing more dental care for people. At what point will these people realize that if we continue to ask the government to pay for or subsidize everything it will just lead to larger tax bills? I hate the fact that i'm paying for middle class jo blog's medical because he can't be bothered with getting his own private medical insurance. The lower class i will accept i need to help out, but medical insurance should be a given when you start earning to a point it's a consideration - when doctors visits, eye wear, dental cover, surgery, etc... are all covered it's not very hard to have the costs of the insurance covered by a single incident. I had knee surgery last year it was 6k roughly - how many months of medical insurance payments was that? No waiting lists, just 1st tier medical surgery.

Yes the money could be spent on other things, but this is easy to complain about. What about the MILLION's spent on Treaty claims and not just the compensation payouts but the other surrounding crap the investigations, court costs, etc...