Benz E63 AMG

[DaveO 47]

Haha thanks guys, and I don't mind this discussion. E39 vs E60 is something that has haunted me for years now.

They each have their benefits and downsides, and it's great to have owned both so I can genuinely compare the two.

E60 engine note isn't assisted through the stereo, I believe that was introduced on the F10 (which sucks if you ask me, but maybe theres a way to disable it?)

The E39 is probably a "better" car in terms of day-to-day. It was the kind of car you can hop in and completely zone out thinking about anything you want, and just drive. The torque down low means you can be in pretty much any of the 6 gears and just accelerate away, max torque at 3500rpm vs max torque at 6100rpm makes a MASSIVE difference.

The way I see it, the E39 was a great overall car, had most of the features I want in a car, the manual gearbox/clutch, the "nice" interior. The whole thing was a matched package, and BMW did a damn good job.

The E60, such a pain in the ass sometimes driving in traffic or at slow speeds. Each gear shift literally makes me cringe unless I'm going over 60kph. But as a straight up performance car, my god the E60 is incomparable to the E39. An E60 would completely tear an E39 apart on any track any day, even in non-M mode (same horsepower). It might interest you that the E60 M5 is only 30kg heavier than the E39 !

The suspension, steering, active seats, brakes, differential, and of course the extra 110bhp is what separates the E60 and the E39. Yes the E39 was good, but you just simply cannot compare the performance aspect of the two.

Driving around in the E39 is nice and relaxed, and you think to yourself, there isn't much on the roads that will be quicker than me, so you feel confident but yet relaxed and at peace.

Driving around in the E60 is far less relaxed, always having to keep an eye on the HUD to see what gear I am in, being shaken around quite a bit even on the softest settings, but 100% of the time you are thinking to yourself, man - there is literally nothing that will beat me (even if there is, it doesn't feel like it). I've never felt so confident about the performance of a car, even driving my actual ex-racecar silvia.

It kind of depends what you want from your M5. Do you want a really well built 'fast' car that is comfortable all the time and relaxing to drive (E39). Or do you want an actual supercar disguised as a sedan. (I hate calling any sedan a super-car, but in terms of straight performance, the E60 is very very close).

I've said it before and I'll say it again. If the E39 M5 had the performance components, features and the 507bhp of the E60 it would be the greatest car ever made.

Edited May 27, 2014 by DaveO

[M5V8 337]

If the E39 M5 had the performance components, features and the 507bhp of the E60 it would be the greatest car ever made.

so a supercharged E39 M5 with matching big brakes is the greatest car ever made?

i'd buy that.

[Eagle 1524]

...there is literally nothing that will beat me (even if there is, it doesn't feel like it).

excluding supersports bikes

[angcil 0]

You sir, have a lovely beast! I'd love to photograph The M5 one day

[yng_750 247]

 

excluding supersports bikes

Oh really? http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WNXySqqffJc

[hybrid 1039]

Dave, you probably just need to get your SMG clutch re-aligned, something you can get done when getting it serviced, or Ray will b e able to help with that.. Fairly simply process

[DaveO 47]

After much deliberation, I decided that the E60 M5 just isn't the right car for me.

Yes, it is awe-inspiring at times - mind boggling even. Yes, it's the fastest overall car I've ever driven. Yes, it has all the features I would ever want and more. Yes, I've had some incredibly fun times in the car on the open roads. Yes, nothing quite makes the sound of a V10 - reminiscent of the old Formula One.

The car is a technological masterpiece. The car is a proper true race car, and yet you can have all your mates there with you too.

It's not these things which made the decision for me.

Imagine you have a friend who likes to party every night of the week, and is in fact quite a boring, uninspired and awkward character unless he is out there partying, but after a few drinks he changes into the most fun friend you have ever known. Some of the best nights you've ever had were out partying with this friend, and even though is it exhausting and at times very stressful, the good times mostly outweigh the stresses and late nights. However, there are many nights where you are just simply too tired, grumpy, or just not in the right state of mind for seeing this particular friend, and so you simply stay home and have a quiet one.

This is the E60 M5 for me.

It is not the right car for my personality. Yes, if you are in the right mood - the car is un-beatable. But it requires you to pay attention to what you are doing 24/7. It is not the kind of car you can hop in, turn on, drive 200meters up the road to the dairy to get a Pie and a can of Coke. It is the kind of car that, unless you are "partying", is really uncomfortable and too involved for my liking on the day-to-day stuff.

I've always been a big fan of going for a drive to relax. Driving from A to B while thinking about other things going on in my life. Thinking about my week, planning my weekend, thinking about what I might want to eat for dinner, thinking about who my football team is playing this weekend etc. As I get older and older, I'm finding I enjoy the more simplistic things in life - like allowing me to get back to what I really enjoy, which is a more relaxed driving environment.

After owning a few BMWs in a row, it was time to try something different.

My grandfather was always an avid Mercedes-Benz fan. He loved the true relaxing approach they have always had, even since his cars back in the 70s.

I thought I would give one a go. Obviously coming from an M5, I was not looking for a "performance car" or "the ultimate driving experience", but more something I can live with day-to-day for the next few years without the stresses and frustrations that the E60 brings.

This was when I spotted a 2007 Mercedes-Benz E63 AMG.

I have always thought this shape looked a little bit aged, as it looked similar for a fairly long period of time (2002-2008). But the subtle changes AMG have made to the front kit, guards, bonnet etc. combined with the colour of this particular one, was the first time I was quite impressed visually by this shape of Mercedes.

Most impressive was the instant comfort. The leather is much softer and plush, instead of the hard leather of BMW, the softer air-supported seats of Mercedes was a good first impression.

Then you turn the key and listen to the 6.2L V8 fire to life. Wow. So different from the V10 (which sounds terrible at low rpm - but amazing at high rpm). The merc gives itself a little blip of the throttle and burbles into life with mini-backfires and awesome sounding V8 power.

After about 15 seconds of driving, you feel at one with the car. Thinking back to the E60, I remember it took me a few weeks to finally get acclimatized to the way it drives, the gearbox / suspension in particular.

It was really all I had hoped for. Put the car into D (sports mode), and away you go. Yes - right now you are thinking - WTF - has this guy never driven an automatic before? And admittedly it has been quite some time. My E39 M5 was manual, then the E60 was the whole SMG thing.

It was one of the first times I had driven a Merc, and yet it felt like I had owned them all my life. The comfort, the at-peace feeling. Everything felt right, and I hadn't even really touched the accelerator yet. I could tell even before experiencing the performance side of the car, that this was the right car for me.

The air suspension seems to absorb all of the road imperfections, making a softer more comfortable ride.

As part of the test drive, I reach a nice long straight all of a sudden, so figure this is a good time to see what happens when I push my right foot all the way down to the ground.

Wow. I knew these AMG cars were fast in a straight line, but I did not expect this fast. The instant torques from 2000rpm - 7000rpm!! The noise! This all of a sudden is now the fastest car I've ever driven (in a straight line). 518 horsepowers, 630nm torques. Impressive.

I throw the car around a bit, yes it is a tiny bit more 'boaty' than the E60 M5. But the AMG isn't renowned for its cornering is it. And with comfort in mind, this was almost ideal. The brakes are just as impressive as the E60 M5, those massive AMG brakes stopping the big heavy car very promptly.

I finish the test drive in a state of confusion. How can two "top end" german super-sedans be so different.

I spent that evening pondering the pro's and con's.

The M5 has better features, like heads up display, active lumbar, garage door opener, plus many adjustable driving styles. The M5 cornered better, flatter, faster. The chassis is tighter, stiffer, more like a race car, and can sounds like a F1 Car at 6000rpm+.

The E63 is far more comfortable, easy as anything to drive A to B (infact my mum drove it, but would never EVER try to drive the E60), has incredible power and low rpm torque making it responsive and you don't have to be driving like a dickhead to overtake someone. Gearchanges are smooth and un-noticeable instead of all your passengers flying back and forward each shift.

My conclusion is that the M5 is unparalleled on the open country roads, and I do not regret owning the car. I always wanted to own a V10 in my life at one point, and what better car to have it in than the M5. As a sedan race car I love this thing. And although, for me, a very stressful car to own/drive, the experience this car has given me has been extraordinary and educational.

Those who know me, know I have a fairly relaxed quiet personality. The E63 seems to match this far better.

Ideally one would own both of these awesome machines. The M5 for the road trips, the open roads, the country side. And the E63 for Monday-Friday, traffic, short trips, easy-going-driving.

It's hard to say which one is the better car overall. Time will tell.

[Driftit 1945]

You should go for a drive in the E55 AMG Kompressor now.

E63 was a cost saving thing. Supercharger was just too expensive and crazy expensive when it goes wrong. Funny that the new E63 AMG Twin Turbo once again uses the E55's engine.

Could get the E63 a Partner. Didn't Boyce want one?

http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/used-cars/mercedesbenz/auction-751130276.htm

Edited July 7, 2014 by driftit

[DaveO 47]

I did test drive an E55 AMG over the weekend, prior to the E63 purchase.

Yes, it was very similar, although being 2002-2005 (most were 2003-2004), was more 'aged', and had less features (like no airmatic suspension, no parking sensors), and felt like I would be going backwards in my car progression.

E63 has different front kit, guards, due to its wider front track.

Plus I always loved my N/A motors, as cool as the supercharger is. Straight line acceleration seemed honestly like much of a muchness. E55 has 40 horsepower less but more torques, but is paired with the 5 speed transmission. Whereas the E63 has a much newer smoother shifting 7 speed.

Also forgot to mention before, the E63 actually somehow has really good gas mileage (compared with the E60), and am finding myself down around 13L per 100km!

I was definitely considering the E55, however with only a $5000 difference between the imported 2004 E55's I was looking at, and NZ new 2007 E63, I went with the newer option.

Edited July 7, 2014 by DaveO

[DaveO 47]

Could get the E63 a Partner. Didn't Boyce want one?

http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/used-cars/mercedesbenz/auction-751130276.htm

Indeed! Interested to see how much that goes for.

Your old man had an E55 if I remember correctly? What do you think of one with such high kms - especially if the supercharger is notorious for problems as you mentioned above.

Cheers

[qube 3568]

Great read. Let me first ask this. Have you bought the E63 already?

If yes, good choice! I am a big fan of the w211 shape (i currently own a E350 the 3.5L v6)

If not yet? I suggest going for it. Would be good to get mechanical waranty if possible and also consider importing one from the uk. It will be around 25k as opposed to 45k.

[DaveO 47]

Thanks! Bit of a long rant, surprised you managed to read it haha :-)

Yes I have already bought it. Loved the rare colour (Flint Grey), a major difference between most silver/white/black ones. And also loved that it was NZ new with a full service history which I read through.

I have also added a 2 year full autosure mechanical breakdown warranty, which includes AA roadside assistance etc. (Even more peace of mind). Might be un-required as the Merc just "feels" like a more reliable less stressful set up.

The car set me back 35k, plus another 3k for the warranty. Still cheaper than what I will sell the M5 for.

[qube 3568]

That is an awesome buy.

If youre keen for a photoshoot let me know! See other european cars thread for pics of my car

[BreakMyWindow 1870]

You don't mess around, congrats on the new purchase. Bet you're wishing you saw one of these signs every time you get on the M'way.

[earon 32]

Thanks!  Bit of a long rant, surprised you managed to read it haha :-)

 

 Yes I have already bought it.  Loved the rare colour (Flint Grey), a major difference between most silver/white/black ones.  And also loved that it was NZ new with a full service history which I read through.

 

I have also added a 2 year full autosure mechanical breakdown warranty, which includes AA roadside assistance etc.  (Even more peace of mind).  Might be un-required as the Merc just "feels" like a more reliable less stressful set up.

 

The car set me back 35k, plus another 3k for the warranty.  Still cheaper than what I will sell the M5 for.

Awesome buy mate! I'm a massive fan of the Amg group.. especially the C63 Amg 08-current production.

Is that the same motor you've got in your e63??

I've spent a lot of time driving the c63 amg and it's utterly brilliant.. we've had two E60 M5s and they're also remarkable cars.

Though I mean this with no disrespect whatsoever but the bonkers folks at AMG have caught and maybe surpassed the M cars of BMW... The new E63 Amg is receiving amazing reviews and is seen to have finally beaten the M5. The next C63 Amg (2015) looks to be an M4 killer.. the competition has definitely heated up.

[Driftit 1945]

Indeed! Interested to see how much that goes for.

Your old man had an E55 if I remember correctly? What do you think of one with such high kms - especially if the supercharger is notorious for problems as you mentioned above.

Cheers

Yeah he still has it. But to be honest I would not purchase an Import. And you want one that has been well looked after, has a service history and had all the big services already done.

e.g. Brakes are $3K through Merc to replace.

His one has all the options too. Seems odd that they would even come without PDC.

They chose not to use the 7 speed in the E55 as the tourqe would give it issues. Also more strength for towing which suited us.

Had nearly no issues with it. Just a sensor or two.

[jeffbebe 1559]

I've heard from various sources the E60 M5 is not a particular nice car off the track... Guess this is further confirmation. I'm with on comfort whilst driving but I do love power too. Hence my interest in big, fast sedans and now the semi-ridiculous E31.

Good luck with the Merc.

[qube 3568]

Is an f10 m5 completely off the table? I always thought they looked cool.

[earon 32]

Is an f10 m5 completely off the table? I always thought they looked cool.

Drove the F10 M5 last weekend.. what a monster of a car.. haven't driven the new E63 Amg, I'd rather like to make a comparison. The f10 m5 really felt like a bigger more comfortable R35 Gtr .. though more sophisticated interior wise.. it ate up road like it and was pretty rev happy too.

Definitely an amazing accomplishment by the M division. Rectified and surpassed the e60 m5 by miles!

[handgrenade 189]

Crossing my fingers that I can go along to a test drive this weekend for a new c63 amg 507. Yum!!

[roo 41]

[DaveO 47]

glorious photos. Thanks Roo!

[vtgts300kw 90]

I've heard from various sources the E60 M5 is not a particular nice car off the track... Guess this is further confirmation. I'm with on comfort whilst driving but I do love power too. Hence my interest in big, fast sedans and now the semi-ridiculous E31.

Good luck with the Merc.

It's not happy going slowly. It's like a dog on a leash at the park watching other dogs playing.

[DaveO 47]

It's not happy going slowly. It's like a dog on a leash at the park watching other dogs playing.

Hahaha, exactly!

The M5 is up on trademe now too: http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing.aspx?id=754176092

Some really nice photos thanks to roo!

[DaveO 47]

still buzzing from the M power day yesterday.

Far far exceeded expectations.

12 people attended the afternoon session.

15min chat / history of the M car etc while sipping on a short black (thanks BMW)

followed by a 45min road test swapping cars every 15mins, driving the 2015 M3 (sedan), 2015 M4 (coupe), and 2015 235i M. Took us in a huge convoy through the country roads out behind mercer/hampton downs area, some sweet tight corners and awesome roads.

got back and split into 2 groups, one for the track and one for the skid pan. I went on the track first, in pairs, and played follow the instructor (who was actually driving nice and fast), and did 4 x 90% pace laps in each of the 3 cars (so 12 laps driving, 12 laps passenger) with the passenger (no helmets or anything ! - so didn't mess up my hair). The new M cars are crazy fast!!! especially in the handling/braking department. They changed the back straight into a slalom course which was cool.

Then we swapped and went to skidpan. This time only the 2 M cars were on the skidpad (wet), I'd never driven on the pad before, jesus that sh*t is slippery. We each did laps of this large circle. 1 lap with full traction control, then a few laps in M dynamic mode traction control (little slides - people were spinning out lol). Then like 10 mins with traction control fully off. Guy challenged anyone who could do a full loop sideways to win a prize - apparently only one person had done it before, some rally driver. So sure enough that was my focus, was actually harder than I thought but managed to achieve it in the end haha! DRIFT 4 LYF.

After the skidpad all 12 drivers would again, in pairs, have a 250m drag race competition but not allowed to use launch control - with the top 3 getting a hot lap with the BMW race driver guy. I chose the new M4 (coupe) thinking it would be the fastest car.

Managed to come 3rd in that. Surprisingly the 2 fastest times were both in the 235i and both drivers just put it in automatic and just floored it lol.

Then the BMW race driver guy took us for some full speed hot laps, 4 deep (first time during the day we have to wear a helmet). I wasn't expecting much, but this guy was fast, and was power sliding everywhere. Super fun.

Overall - what an awesome day! literally got the drive these new M cars properly, including 2nd gear limiter bashing on the skid pad, full race mode on the track hitting apexs and HEAVY brakes etc.

I assumed it would be a fairly tame day, but it was the polar opposite. Excellent job BMW!!!!!!