Why replicas are not a good idea...

[liyi_92 37]

Thanks for this info! Will definitely take this into account now that I think how important this really is.

[nath 134]

If you consider that aluminium work hardens like crazy as well you'll be steering well clear of cheap knock offs & anything that has been repaired like it has the black plague.

There is so much to potentially go wrong with aluminium wheel manufacturing its scary (with big consequences for failure as well). Everything from porosity, casting defects, heat treatment, machining defects etc. Scary how many replicas with mo name, pedigree or approvals there are out there - bit like people buying cheap no name tyres.

Yep porosity and casting defects are huge problems in slap-bang production of cheap parts. When I did my engineering degree, one of my lecturers was a world expert in metallurgy used to show us items which he was sent from companies to test and assess. These included cast control arms and other suspension parts from the top German manufacturers whose ostensibly quality parts were rubbish when cut open.

[Phil-540i 166]

Even on good quality alloy 4WD rims ( CSA - Aussie made), I've had them become porus over time with hard use etc......., but have never actually damaged one, even during competition usage. Late model cars with 18, 19, 20 inch rims, & condom thickness tyres, have got to be putting huge shock loadings into rims / suspension / chassis points when being used on some of the rough goat tracks we call roads on this side of the world. Hit something hard enough, like even clipping a traffic island & the shock loading can be enough to set off the airbags, something people don't often think about. case in point, the 7 series on reTardme a while back that had done this scenario, setting off the door / curtain 'pillows' on that side of the vehicle........

Edit - speelling.

Edited October 16, 2013 by Blue-540i

[HELLBM 1552]

Even on good quality alloy 4WD rims ( CSA - Aussie made), I've had them become porus over time with hard use etc......., but have never actually damaged one, even during competition usage. Late model cars with 18, 19, 20 inch rims, & condom thickness tyres, have got to be putting huge shock loadings into rims / suspension / chassis points when being used on some of the rough goat tracks we call roads on this side of the world. Hit something hard enough, like even clipping a traffic island & the shock loading can be enough to set off the airbags, something people don't often think about. case in point, the 7 series on reTardme a while back that had done this scenario, setting off the door / curtain 'pillows' on that side of the vehicle........

Edit - speelling.

See this quite often. It takes a sideways glance off a curb usually to set off curtain airbag and the door airbag, often with nothing more than a scuff to the rim. The sensors located under carpet on both sides are very good at picking up angle of impact. Other than this event, the car remains undamaged.

It appears in this case that the impact was a frontal event at a good speed (100+ on motorway ) Hence why only the drivers airbag went off and not the others. Imagine a scenario off brick vs replica...

[lord_jagganath 421]

I have gone over a traffic island with my past '03 laguna wagon, broke a suspension frame but the stock alloy wheels were still true, straight, and good. Shows that engineered well, allow wheels can be tough.

Edited October 16, 2013 by The Juggernaut

[Apex 693]

I have gone over a traffic island with my past '03 laguna wagon, broke a suspension frame but the stock alloy wheels were still true, straight, and good. Shows that engineered well, allow wheels can be tough.

What part of the suspension did you bend? That impressive.

I smash my wheels all the time when rallying, we run the OEM 18" wheels that are made by Speedline, can say after the amoun of hits we have I would not run anything else.

Check this, hit this curb at around 100kph, just bounced off and kept going, there was damage to the face of the wheel but thats' about it! Glad I pulled the hand brake and that there was a curb there, would have been talking to the cows down the hill otherwise.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNCi6vqyQBw

[lord_jagganath 421]

What part of the suspension did you bend? That impressive.

The Alloys were the stock 16" Laguna alloys and I bent the front wishbone. broke the tracking rod in half too. This was off an SG import but the electrics were impressively in good nick. Wouldn't have sold it if I didn't have to.

Edited October 17, 2013 by The Juggernaut

[harvgray 12]

If you buy wheels off us you will not have a problem. We only deal in quality products--Wolf, Work, Rays wheels. Have sold thousands of wheels and never had any issues with cracking/ breaking. Agree though, there is a lot of rubbish out there...

cheers Harvey

Edited October 18, 2013 by hybrid

[HELLBM 1552]

Wheel is branded as `NOT OEM` with no manufacturers markings.

[_ethrty-Andy_ 2132]

Wheel is branded as `NOT OEM` with no manufacturers markings.

So no accountability and noone to sue, right?

[Ahmedsinc 414]

On the topic of OEM vs. dodgy knock-offs, who are the OEM suppliers to BMW? Naturally I'm aware of BBS but who else does 'em?

I did have a quick peek at the 17s on my car but couldn't spot anything obvious through the years of brake dust.

[Phil-540i 166]

That pic tells 1000 words on its own............they 'look' OE though externally which I guess is a easy trap to fall for............

[Apex 693]

On the topic of OEM vs. dodgy knock-offs, who are the OEM suppliers to BMW? Naturally I'm aware of BBS but who else does 'em?

I did have a quick peek at the 17s on my car but couldn't spot anything obvious through the years of brake dust.

Various manufacturers at different plants for different styles, all are TUV certified though so you can be assured they are quality.

AFAIK a lot is made by BBS. BBS make a lot of OEM for many manufactures, from GM to Toyota, you would be surprised at what boring everyday cars have BBS manufactured wheels, the flash looking aftermarket wheels you see make up a very small part of their business.

[e38king 1]

Wheel factories in China have A through to D ratings with A having all the relevant structural testing facilities incl x-ray and are required to test at least one wheel in every 40. B rating is one in every 100. D rated needless to say do not have x-ray or are required to test any wheels, so in fact there are differences in quality. Having visited wheel factories in China you will be amazed how many actually make OEM wheels, as well as aftermarket wheels. The majority of OEM wheels now are actually cast, not forged due to the prohibitive cost in making OEM forged wheels. Specialist models like the M3 etc still use forged wheels due to their limited production run.

A lot of people on here seem to be bagging "replicas" yet how many of these same people use aftermarket brake rotors, control arms etc which technically also are replicas. Take a lot at the tyres that some of the members use, I bet they are not all running OEM replacements. Brakes and tyres are probably more important to safety than a wheel.

I am not defending the "replica market", just offering a balanced point of view.

[elmarco 56]

Yep porosity and casting defects are huge problems in slap-bang production of cheap parts. When I did my engineering degree, one of my lecturers was a world expert in metallurgy used to show us items which he was sent from companies to test and assess. These included cast control arms and other suspension parts from the top German manufacturers whose ostensibly quality parts were rubbish when cut open.

Joe Gregory perchance?

[nath 134]

Joe Gregory perchance?

Na Timotius Pasang, a great lecturer.

[m325i 709]

Hell BM only sell Ray's Wheels. hor hor hor.

But seriously that is a useful PSA.

[E30 325i Rag-Top 2956]

Wheel is branded as `NOT OEM` with no manufacturers markings.

And if you look at the stamping on the boss (an about the two o'clock position) there is a badly stamped fake JWL marking as well - trying to suggest it has a JWL approval. Plus the fact that the markings do look to be stamped and not cast - adding further stress weak-points into the wheel, great.

If it is anything that you need to stop you in a hurry - tyres, wheels, pads, rotors, fluids, etc. then it is not worth scrimping on in my book. First thing I look at when I buy a car is the tyres on it, if people want to fit Ling Longs on a BMW then they sure ain't gonna be spending money on it!

[master garion 1]

And if you look at the stamping on the boss (an about the two o'clock position) there is a badly stamped fake JWL marking as well - trying to suggest it has a JWL approval. Plus the fact that the markings do look to be stamped and not cast - adding further stress weak-points into the wheel, great.

If it is anything that you need to stop you in a hurry - tyres, wheels, pads, rotors, fluids, etc. then it is not worth scrimping on in my book. First thing I look at when I buy a car is the tyres on it, if people want to fit Ling Longs on a BMW then they sure ain't gonna be spending money on it!

Tyres are the first thing I look at too. Even if the car is mint in every other way, I lose interest as soon I see Sagitar/BlueDragon/Longwang/Chingchong because that tells me what the owner's like. What amazes me is the number of expensive, powerful cars riding on the crappiest tyres. See this a lot in Newmarket - $100 tyres on $100k+ cars......cheap bastards or just ignorant?

[Tristan 338]

cheap bastards or just ignorant?

Both

[HELLBM 1552]

Wheel factories in China have A through to D ratings with A having all the relevant structural testing facilities incl x-ray and are required to test at least one wheel in every 40. B rating is one in every 100. D rated needless to say do not have x-ray or are required to test any wheels, so in fact there are differences in quality. Having visited wheel factories in China you will be amazed how many actually make OEM wheels, as well as aftermarket wheels. The majority of OEM wheels now are actually cast, not forged due to the prohibitive cost in making OEM forged wheels. Specialist models like the M3 etc still use forged wheels due to their limited production run.

A lot of people on here seem to be bagging "replicas" yet how many of these same people use aftermarket brake rotors, control arms etc which technically also are replicas. Take a lot at the tyres that some of the members use, I bet they are not all running OEM replacements. Brakes and tyres are probably more important to safety than a wheel.

I am not defending the "replica market", just offering a balanced point of view.

Are these same wheels required to have A,B,C or D stamped on them or are we to assume the worst? D`s exported to NZ.

[e38king 1]

Are these same wheels required to have A,B,C or D stamped on them or are we to assume the worst? D`s exported to NZ.

Assume what you like

Unfortunately, the only way to tell is to go and visit the factories. Most of the A factories in China actually make OEM wheels for a lot of major car companies. I have seen Mazda, Toyota and Honda wheels being made.

You could also assume that all the worst replacement parts are also exported to NZ.

I have to agree with the tyre comment made above. Having worked in the tyre industry for over 10 years, you find that most people simply do not know the differences between tyres. Unfortunately they see something that is black and round and assume they are all the same.

At the end of the day you always get what you pay for. I have had a number of people ask me why there is a difference in price in tyres. My most common response is that to get something made cheaper you have to leave something out. These cheaper tyres tend to have less rubber, less steel and less denier cords in the sidewall. Less money spent on research and development etc.

[fhall 3]

You're only trying to push your own sales of OEM wheels. That is a massive hit. Look at the disc rotor and out of round that is. Guarantee that an OEM wheel would have done the same Mr "HellBM"

[yng_750 247]

a good even cast wheel will let the rim buckle in and might lose a couple of spoke but it stays on the car pretty well.

if you find the other half of the wheel its still round then its a sh*t wheel.

if the rim its buckled away then the spokes let go then its just a massive impact.

forged > oemcast > chinese cast > no wheels at all > chlamydia > 20" chromies

you would be surprised how fast rotors can wear away on hard road with a ton of load on them and plenty of speed.

looks like he was going pretty fast anyway

how it should be done.

anyway two points.

does this worry anyone about how its getting pretty hard to tell fakes from oem.

also this is why trucks should have structural bumpers down to car bumper height

[Phil-540i 166]

Loving your thoughts on the chromies................ditto here!!!