4km/h speed threshold for 62 days

[Phil-540i 166]

Balanced, & truthful................

[gjm 3258]

A much better representation of the facts, at least, as far as we know them.

Unfortunately while people like Knackstedt hold any sort of influence (I'm not saying he does - only people like him) there will never be any real attempts to improve road safety. If the entire population stuck to 100km/h, and the number of road casualties didn't change, they'd cite increased numbers of motorists meaning a percentage reduction in numbers, rather than an actual one.

The MoT data is probably the most accurate available. That they are confident enough to say that the vast majority of fatalities are not related to excessive speed, says a lot. However, it is a stat that will be ignored in the drive for revenue and sensational headlines.

"Land Transport Safety Authority spokesman Andy Knackstedt said there was "a wealth of evidence" that showed even very small reductions in speed led to reductions in fatalities and serious injuries, and that lowering the enforcement tolerance meant lower mean speeds."

This is interesting, not only because of no listed supporting documentation around the "wealth of evidence", but also because the LTSA was disbanded in 2004. Poor reporting, perhaps? Regardless, the quote from Knackstedt has been proven false in so many countries, so many times, as to make it nonsensical. In some circumstances it may be true - outside schools during term time, for example - but reducing the average speed of traffic on the roads by a few percent is unlikely to make any difference.

If accident reduction is the aim, why do the camera vans park in locations where accidents rarely, if ever occur?

As I said, this appears a much better report. But sadly it isn't one that will kickstart any policy changes. I'm not sure that with the incumbent government, anything will.

[twisted 45]

Was following two cops (one in morning, one in evening) doing well over the 104km/h tolerance last Thursday.

[hotwire 352]

Ha one rule huh,,,

I remember many years ago, one Sunday afternoon following a Patrol car from Te Awamutu to Hamilton. He (I assume he) was doing between 110 -115 kph all the way (no lights/sirens), I sat on his tail the whole way, we both passed several cars which was quite strange feeling. I was merely testing the water as to if I was going to be stopped & questioned. Never happened which was a bit of an anti climax really.

[Rrascal 4]

I disagree with the 4kph threshold on the grounds that there is no requirement, and hence no chance, that a speedometer is that accurate... Hell, a new set of tyres compared to a worn set could make that much difference...

[Phil-540i 166]

I disagree with the 4kph threshold on the grounds that there is no requirement, and hence no chance, that a speedometer is that accurate... Hell, a new set of tyres compared to a worn set could make that much difference...

That's true, to a certain extent. My ute speedo is 100% accurate against GPS, but its up 3 sizes from original tyre size fitted. Got an uncle, that had a new Colorado as a rural mail vehicle, speedo 17% out on it. Does'nt 'sound much', but they do lots of kms, in short amounts of time - throws it out of warrenty 'early', because it really hasn't travelled 100,000kms when speedo says it has, & also had him extra in road user charges - 250,000km on the vehicle was only actually 207500.........

Most speedos read faster than actual speed being travelled............

Regardless, its always the driver's responsibility to stay within the law if you want to avoid tickets...........

If you want to survive - drive to the conditions. If you want to avoid tickets - drive to & under the posted speed limit & what your speedo says.

Edited December 15, 2013 by Blue-540i

[gjm 3258]

Most speedos read faster than actual speed being travelled............

A new tyre is bigger than a used tyre. A smaller tyre will show a higher speed on the speedo in the car.

So if your car is showing (say) 5% over - displaying 105km/h when the vehicle is actually moving at 100km/h - then when the tyre is worn and the tyre diameter potentially reduced by up to 10mm, the speedo will (perhaps) show 106km/h when travelling at an actual 100km/h. (I've not done the maths to work out the exact figures, but you get the idea.)

Essentially, the speedo does become more inaccurate as tyres wear, but it does it in a way that protects you against speeding.

In Australia, legislation says newly introduced vehicle models are required to have speedos that always read on the safe side of whatever the vehicle speed is: the speedo must not indicate a speed less than the vehicle’s true speed, or a speed greater than the vehicle’s true speed by an amount more than 10 percent plus 4 km/h - at 100km/h the speedo must read between 100 and 114km/h.

The other side of this is that at an indicated speed of 100km/h, the vehicle's true speed must be between 87.3 and 100km/h.

This is for new vehicles. How enforceable a marginal allowance for speed is when applied to older vehicles is tricky. Then try to apply a 4km/h margin to a performance car built pre-1976 and which only has the speedo marked in mph.

Here's one from an old Tatra:

Anyone fancy trying to pick 4km/h out of that?

[Phil-540i 166]

You're right in what you are saying there - rolling diameters affect the speedo reading. NZTA legislation says that anything outside 5% change from OE rolling diameter, needs certification - this would also involve speedo calibration / testing in all likelihood, as well as brake tests etc.

NZTA WOF guidelines state a 'speedometer must be accurate' theres no % rating though as to just how accurate that is...........

What ya then get under 4kph threseholds, is all the Noddy's so busy looking @ speedos in order to avoid tickets, that they miss other more serious $hit happening out in front / behind / beside them.....

RE your Tatra speedo - P.O.S like that shouldn't exceed 50kph anyway.....................

Edit - re the Aussie legislation - I think you'll find that's a follow-on from what other countries in EEC etc do anyway, which is another reason why our speedos have been the same way for so long now...............

Edited December 15, 2013 by Blue-540i

[gjm 3258]

You're right in what you are saying there - rolling diameters affect the speedo reading. NZTA legislation says that anything outside 5% change from OE rolling diameter, needs certification - this would also involve speedo calibration / testing in all likelihood, as well as brake tests etc.

NZTA WOF guidelines state a 'speedometer must be accurate' theres no % rating though as to just how accurate that is...........

What ya then get under 4kph threseholds, is all the Noddy's so busy looking @ speedos in order to avoid tickets, that they miss other more serious $hit happening out in front / behind / beside them.....

RE your Tatra speedo - P.O.S like that shouldn't exceed 50kph anyway.....................

Edit - re the Aussie legislation - I think you'll find that's a follow-on from what other countries in EEC etc do anyway, which is another reason why our speedos have been the same way for so long now...............

'tis true - too much time spent looking at the speedo and not enough at the road. There was a Rentokill sign-written soft-roader on SH1 this morning who narrowly managed to miss the wire barriers on a number of occasions. Heading south through TK, there have been at least 3 cases in as many weeks where people lost concentration (or whatever) and have taken the wire ropes out.

Road sense and awareness is far more relevant than obsessively sticking to a speed limit. Unfortunately while you can teach people what number they are allowed, you can't help them learn to actually drive properly.

[vtgts300kw 90]

Hahahahaha gold!!!

Also acdc reference?

42-39-56 you could say she got it all.

[Phil-540i 166]

42-39-56 you could say she got it all.

Hmm, haven't seen those stats before...........................& you could say whatever you like about that I suppose - I'm probably not gonna say much though on it, bar no pics really needed or wanted

What you do in your spare time is totally up to you..............

[vtgts300kw 90]

Hmm, haven't seen those stats before...........................& you could say whatever you like about that I suppose - I'm probably not gonna say much though on it, bar no pics really needed or wanted

What you do in your spare time is totally up to you..............

I was merely correcting the reference...

[Rrascal 4]

42-39-56 you could say she got it all.

Whole Lotta Rosie.

[jeffbebe 1559]

Drove to Kerikeri and back earlier in the week. Saw 6 different cameras/police with radar en route. Not one of them was placed at an accident black spot. In fact all of them were midway along passing lanes on straight roads. Pathetic in my view. It is well documented that the efficacy of speed cameras and police presence is based on slowing people down in potentially (or procen) hazardous road sections not straight roads where it is not unsafe to go a bit over the limit in order to overtake a slower vehicle that might manage 100kmh on the straight (so you're forced to go a bit faster) but will hold you up at 60kmh everytime there's an incline.

Motorists wouldn't mind if it was less obvious the whole thing is for income generation not to save lives.

[Palazzo 477]

Then you'll love this, I can't believe nobody has put the police to the sword over it. Read the danger spots at the bottom, then read the radar spots.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11168484

[jeffbebe 1559]

Then you'll love this, I can't believe nobody has put the police to the sword over it. Read the danger spots at the bottom, then read the radar spots.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11168484

Exactly.... It's a 4kmh threshold cash cow!

This guys agrees: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11175825

[westy 614]

I'm not sure it is about revenue gathering. Maybe they actually believe that, by lowering the tolerance of the tolerance by what amounts to walking pace, they'll have an impact on deaths/casualties etc. Maybe they really are that stupid.

Or maybe it's just the old case of bureaucrats trying to look busy...

[*Glenn* 854]

Or maybe it's just the old case of bureaucrats trying to look busy...

and when they really have nothing to do, they can call on Bevan Chuang and play games, just to keep their lives interesting

[gjm 3258]

Lowering the average speed of vehicles in inner city and urban or suburban areas may have an effect. They are looking for (effectively) a 10% reduction in speed.

However, lowering highway speeds from ~110 to 104km/h will have zero - ZERO - effect on casualties in the event of an accident.

As for speed cameras... Coming back from Hamilton this evening we had a pale blue Toyota Estima-type people carrier almost hidden in the verge taking pictures of southbound traffic - it was in a favourite place, just past the old Meremere power station, tucked well back fro mthe road in such a position that you can't see it until you are there. Has anyone ever seen a speed-related accident on this piece of road?

OK, so that's bad enough, but that would be the second camera you would encounter while heading south. An identical-looking vehicle was parked in clear view in Mercer, maybe 10km up the road towards Auckland, also capturing southbound traffic. Is this a new tactic? You've seen the camera van, slowed down, then accelerated to a speed which may be in excess of the limit only to be caught by a second, identical vehicle, which is hidden from view as you approach it? Surely this is tantamount to entrapment?

There were also two police cars on the northbound carriageway between the SH1/SH2 junction and the top of the Bombay Hills. Similar tactics?

[Phil-540i 166]

And yet, I'm stuck in a line-up of traffic travelling @ 60kph in 100 zone today heading to town, because of some muppet oxygen thief in a red Honda that should be profusely bitch-slapped for being such a retarded gimp.....................

But hey, heading outa town at 5pm, we've got every-cop & his dog, including CVIU officers, parked up stooping virtually everything heading north & south, for DUI checkpoint - traffic banked up for miles........

Brilliant.................

[cliffdunedin 8]

I'm sooo pissed at this 4km threshhold. I've been pinged 3 times in the past 2 weeks, one at 106, one at 109 and one at 123km

The first one was a police switch-on, the second was a laser that caught me coming downhill (no acceleration) on the motorway and although the 3rd was going a bit fast, it was on a passing lane with about 15 cars behind me all trying to pass a cattle and Fonterra milk truck... All times, there was never going to be an explanation good enough for the police. Anyone who says they are not Revenue gathering is full of it, now to chill for 2 years with 60 points (20 from previous ticket early last year) and a few hundred dollars of fines just fricken annoys me.

[gjm 3258]

Another plain camera van this afternoon, on the longest straightest piece of northbound SH1 between Huntly and TK. Visibility in excess of 1000m, no turnings or sliproads, laybys or similar within that distance. I've been driving that stretch for 4 months and there's not been an accident I've seen in that area.

I suppose at least it was easily visible. Still, it's not safety. It's revenue gathering.

[Phil-540i 166]

2 camera vans on the motorway outa Welly late this arvo - both parked in ar$e places................1 under a flyover on the inside of a corner, hidden behind bushes - the other hidden behind bushes & concrete 'block'.............depending on what its set at 2nd one may have got my vehicle...........

Local 'boy in blue' lives a few kms down the road from us - he was heading 'for work' just after we left this morn...........gave me a friendly flash of the lights & a wave as we passed each other, as I was slowing down just as he turned onto the road I was on........

[_ethrty-Andy_ 2132]

suddenly a V1 looks really attractive even to the people that knock them.

[BreakMyWindow 1874]

Several oinkey oinks on the way up to Tutukaka this weekend. Of course all strategically parked by the passing lane straights.