a Silver Piglet

[lord_jagganath 421]

http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/used-cars/mercedesbenz/auction-715573201.htm always had a softspot for one of these, cosworth fettled piglets.

[KwS 2425]

Fek me thats tidy!

Last one of them i saw on TM was local, with high as KM and under $10K. Was really rough in comparison though. Pretty cool cars, be a great toy and cheaper than an E30 M3. Take a bit of getting used to the dogleg box.

[Driftit 2078]

Wow that's really nice. I would still love to have an EVO version of one of these parked next to an E30 M3 EVO in the garage.

Maybe one day. If Lotto came my way it would be DTM versions.

[2052NV 43]

They are very cool! and that one is mint, i have not driven one but i hear they are a bit sluggish when compared to a 325i??

[lord_jagganath 421]

http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/used-cars/mercedesbenz/auction-715865770.htm SECOND ONE! double the kays same price. RHD, clean engine bay, and manual too! ... so beautiful.

Edited April 9, 2014 by The Juggernaut

[E30 325i Rag-Top 2956]

There is a very good reason why they are cheaper than E30 M3s... people want to buy M3s as they are good cars rather than old-man mobiles with a hotted up engine. Just because they raced against, and lost to, the M3s doesn't mean they are in the same league as a collectable road car.

Have seen some very interesting internet debates about these Mercs being referred to as "Cosworths" and it is very interesting to notice that there are no Cossie badges anywhere on the car and they are not referred to in any of the MB info on the car.

[kingkarl 136]

Aside from Merc fanboys, who in their right mind would buy one of these ahead of an e36 m3

[Eagle 1662]

Someone who wants something a bit different. WhiIe i respect the E36 M3 i have no desire to own one,

[lord_jagganath 421]

this would be the only 190e I'd ever own. otherwise they are little pigs.

[gjm 3258]

The 2.5s are quite a lot rarer than the 2.3-16s. It's a solid 200bhp engine, with a fair bit of tuning potential. Both the 2.3 and 2.5 engines were developed in conjunction with Cosworth.

Frankly, those two look bloody expensive, but that may be my ex-UK perspective. Certainly they are significantly cheaper over there, especially once you take the over-pricing chancers out of the equation.

The MBs are not typically as nimble as an M3, but that has typically been the case anyway. Stop thinking of MB and BMW as competitors (although they were/are) and view them more as being complimentary: MB was more comfortable while BMW was more sporting.

For daily driving, commuting 50km+ each way, I would take an older MB over an older BMW. For more excitement and perhaps a detour via some backroads, the BMW would be better.

[Driftit 2078]

Aside from Merc fanboys, who in their right mind would buy one of these ahead of an e36 m3

I would. The only good E36 is a Stripped out race prepared E36.

[beemn 50]

did any one see the top gear episode with that in it.. it was a crap car all round...but still would have one

[KwS 2425]

There is a very good reason why they are cheaper than E30 M3s... people want to buy M3s as they are good cars rather than old-man mobiles with a hotted up engine. Just because they raced against, and lost to, the M3s doesn't mean they are in the same league as a collectable road car.

Have seen some very interesting internet debates about these Mercs being referred to as "Cosworths" and it is very interesting to notice that there are no Cossie badges anywhere on the car and they are not referred to in any of the MB info on the car.

Might want to do some reading. http://www.markthomastrimming.com/storage/merc/history.htm

[E30 325i Rag-Top 2956]

Nothing revealing in that article, just a re-hash of other people's information. Notice the use of the ' marks around Cosworth, official model does seem to be 190E 2.3-16v though.

[gjm 3258]

Nothing revealing in that article, just a re-hash of other people's information. Notice the use of the ' marks around Cosworth, official model does seem to be 190E 2.3-16v though.

There were three engines built for the W201 with design and assistance by/from Cosworth - the WAA, WAB and WAC. The WAA was the 2.3-16 engine and featured design cues from the BDA including the bearing supports for the camshafts; it was originally designed for competition use (around 300hp), but later detuned for the road. The cylinder head work was pure Cosworth from design to casting, and the 2.3-16 engines were assembled at the Cosworth factory.

The WAB was the 2.5-16 road engine, and the WAC was the short-stroke engine (a whole 8cc less displacement!) used in the Grp A racing W201 190E 2.5-16 Evo II. The WAC initially made 330bhp from a normally-aspirated 2490cc, and was later tuned to over 370hp (some sources say over 400).

While Cosworth contributed to the design specifics (especially for the cylinder heads and fuel systems) for the WAB and WAC, all 2.5-16 engines were built by Mercedes.

</mercedes geek>

[Top Secret 2]

One thing that we have to remember about Mercedes' of that generation is that they have such a feeling of solidity and heft. The last one I was in had no rattles or squeaks to speak of. I'm sure there are more than a few that have fallen by the way-side here in NZ, especially with people that seem to love putting heavy chrome wheels on them

I like them as a bit of an oddball choice. As E30 M3s are appreciating, so will these once people realise they can't buy their favourite BTCC/DTM homologation special any more (E30 M3, of course). I'd like one with sorted suspension, tight diff and maybe some Compomotive rims as a track-cum-backroad basher.

[_ethrty-Andy_ 2132]

I used to have a 190E, little baby 2.0L auto, and sluggish, but that aside, the drive was very good, much better and seemed more spacious than an E30, even though they are about the same size.

[gjm 3258]

E30 M3 wins hands down that's why these are cheap, they just don't cut it and never did.

Unfair. And, perhaps, deliberately inflammatory...?

The M3 was developed especially for motorsport and as such represented a no-holds-barred, optimised for the track, approach, and then prepared for the road. The 190E came from the other direction - a road car that was developed for racing.

I like the M3 too, but the MB deserves respect.

[_ethrty-Andy_ 2132]

Unfair. And, perhaps, deliberately inflammatory...?

The M3 was developed especially for motorsport and as such represented a no-holds-barred, optimised for the track, approach, and then prepared for the road. The 190E came from the other direction - a road car that was developed for racing.

I like the M3 too, but the MB deserves respect.

Yes well said. havent driven either, but i would bank on the run to Auckland from here being much more pleasent in a 190E 2.5-16 Cosworth than a E30 M3

[lord_jagganath 421]

M3 started off with a light junior exec car, whereas the 190e was Merc dabbling in the "small" car category.

also, Graham's 190e is a monster.

[Driftit 2078]

You can also buy one of these in good nick and you have 20K left out of an average E30 M3 budget.

20K can buy some pretty decent upgrades.

[E30 325i Rag-Top 2956]

Need a lot of upgrades to turn one of those ugly barges into an E30 M3!!

[nath 134]

I would prefer one of these over an E30 M3 because I don't want a road racer, but do enjoy something a bit different with a hint of fun and inherent uncommonness. In fact I would never own the E30 M3 simply to not be seen as a sheep.

A barge the 190 may be, but the E30 M3 certainly ain't no Farina design.

[Driftit 2078]

Need a lot of upgrades to turn one of those ugly barges into an E30 M3!!

Merc is something different. At that price it could be driven the way it was meant to be.

Everybody in NZ is too precious with their M3's and no one drives them the way that made us love them anymore. That makes them boring.

There is a few great race cars however.

[E30 325i Rag-Top 2956]

I would prefer one of these over an E30 M3 because I don't want a road racer, but do enjoy something a bit different with a hint of fun and inherent uncommonness. In fact I would never own the E30 M3 simply to not be seen as a sheep.

A barge the 190 may be, but the E30 M3 certainly ain't no Farina design.

I see where you're coming from, I am just very biased towards the M3 and have never particularly liked this shape of Merc and will always associate them with the low-spec rep-mobiles sold in the 1,000s in the UK. Yes, this model is a bit of a different animal, but it is still the same design on the outside to all intents and purposes.

Did you mean this model was designed by Farina? If so I would imagine that the wonderful designs were "normalised" by the design team at M-B before they were released into production. Plus Farina also styled the Austin A40 - so no-one is perfect! The E30 M3 is not so much a beautiful design, more an aggressive or pursposeful design - a bit like a rottweiler.