Honda CR-V... Or something else (!)

[gjm 3258]

In the absence of funds to buy an X1, we're looking at other sources for a small SUV.

The CR-V seems to fit the bill... In post-1999 version it has enough get up and go to get out of it's own way, it has the comfortable seating position Mrs M needs and is easier for her to get in and out of than a much lower vehicle.

It'll need to be an automatic, and preferably 4WD.

Does anyone have any experience of these?

The 1999-2001 facelift model appears to suit us best (in terms of reliability, availability, and price) although it's possible we might be able to stretch to an early 2nd generation model (2001-2005). The 2nd generation got a V-TEC engine which while adding complexity, also added power without sacrificing fuel economy, and they don't appear to be unreliable.

Edited February 22, 2017 by gjm

[lord_jagganath 421]

The first gen will be getting a little long in tooth imo .. .would 5k be too far? http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/used-cars/honda/auction-1237090079.htm I can check this out for you if you wish?

[NZ BMW 368]

I love Honda auctions: 

"we had it serviced and purchased two new tyres"

Whereas in a BMW auction:

"Comes with a filing cabinet full of receipts, recommend pallet jack to remove"

i would have thought the transmission would be the weakest link in any of these cars, and given the cost to repair might make it uneconomic. 

[gjm 3258]

32 minutes ago, lord_jagganath said:

The first gen will be getting a little long in tooth imo .. .would 5k be too far? http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/used-cars/honda/auction-1237090079.htm I can check this out for you if you wish?

A lower mileage, well maintained 1st gen would suit (provided it's a Facelift model) - that elusive car bought new by an 'older person'. They do exist, so patience could be rewarded.
A 2002-on would be a better bet. I was this one which is more than we're looking to spend, but price is likely to be negotiable. It also has the 2.0 engine which is a reasonable amount more economical, but... Silver with a beige interior? Lol
It does have more stated history, too.

25 minutes ago, NZ BMW said:

I love Honda auctions: 

"we had it serviced and purchased two new tyres"

Whereas in a BMW auction:

"Comes with a filing cabinet full of receipts, recommend pallet jack to remove"

i would have thought the transmission would be the weakest link in any of these cars, and given the cost to repair might make it uneconomic. 

Diff'rent strokes for diff'rent folks.  
I've not seen reports of chocolate transmissions, but to be fair I've looked far more generally so far. I will be digging into specific issues.

Edited January 9, 2017 by gjm

[zero 1162]

Graham - if you buy a honda does it require you to lose your bimmersport membership and hand in your man card?

[gjm 3258]

34 minutes ago, 3pedals said:

Graham, drive one first to make sure you can cope with the hideous handling and regular near death experiences.

Only two cars rate lower on my list Rav and Vitara - death / injury traps  

Chime in Olaf and suggest a jacked up Volvo

The Rav4 and Vitara had already been discarded from consideration! An XTrail is a possibility, but are typically regarded (from what I can find) as not being as reliable and possibly even less of a joy to drive than the CR-V.
In all seriousness - are there any recommendations for anything reliable and reasonably economical in this style and the $5k-ish price bracket? It does seem that pretty much everything has one fundamental flaw or another.

Requirements - safe transport for Mrs M and the dog(s), sensible driving position, economical, reliable, fairly simple, 4WD, ability to tow something (a car on a trailer isn't covered in this), easy to get in and out of, and (sadly) not a manual gearbox.

[Olaf 3317]

I think having an e30 in his back yard maintains equilibrium 

 

I've a mate with a CRV, he's had it about 4 years I think, an '07 model with the 2.4L.  I asked him it he still rates it, unhesitating response was  that he rates it as a practical, cheap to run family vehicle. The 2.4 has a wee bit of poke, he notes. "recommended".

 

Do they all have beige interiors? 

[Olaf 3317]

40 minutes ago, 3pedals said:

Chime in Olaf and suggest a jacked up Volvo

no chance! 

[gjm 3258]

34 minutes ago, zero said:

Graham - if you buy a honda does it require you to lose your bimmersport membership and hand in your man card?

I thought you were my friend!

I'll still have other ex-Munich projects.

[Olaf 3317]

Don't eliminate the X-Trail from your list.  I was pretty surprised riding in a 2012 model on a number of occasions recently.  He's had it since new, it's a very practical and spacious vehicle, with (I understand) good off-road capability.  Feels a lot less tinny than the RAV4 or CR-V.  Though searching 2009-2013 they ain't cheap.

[gjm 3258]

2 minutes ago, Olaf said:

Don't eliminate the X-Trail from your list.  I was pretty surprised riding in a 2012 model on a number of occasions recently.  He's had it since new, it's a very practical and spacious vehicle, with (I understand) good off-road capability.  Feels a lot less tinny than the RAV4 or CR-V.  Though searching 2009-2013 they ain't cheap.

Price is the problem.

We drove an earlier, more boxy-shaped X-Trail a while back. It was OK... Just OK. Nice colour, though - a sort of pearl ice blue.

Of course, we would have been comparing it to a BMW or Mercedes so it didn't really stand much chance.   Just seems a shame that while the Germans made good cars 10 and 20 years ago, the Japanese don't appear to have done the same. At least, not in the genre that we're looking at.

[NZ BMW 368]

Maybe see what this guy will offload this for and get it fixed or put in a used box: https://trademe.co.nz/1234442969

[Olaf 3317]

oh wow.  $5k-ish.  notwithstanding your good lady's need in having a high seat height is pushing you to an SUV, you're right... $5k is not much to buy your list of needs.

I had an A32 Maxima for about 5 years, it was a "good car"** - though not in the way a good Euro is.  Today I was driving the Volvo thinking about replacement... and wondering if an X-Trail or similar would make a good replacement.  Feeling the solidity of the Volvo I figured that was a very large ask.

 

Good Car: It was a reasonably good drive, excellent engine, good for family transport on trips.  And though it cost me a bit to maintain (100k km service was over a grand, new shocks, plenty of tyres, and needed a rust repair to the x-member), it never let me down... and compared to a Euro, it was inexpensive.  The downsides were the maxima is not a solid car like a Euro is. The e39 5 Series is way beyond the A32 Maxima in terms of solidity, driving experience, capability... and now there are few A32s on the road, but tons of e39s.  The e39, in contrast, would cost more for feed and watering, and back then, way more to buy.

Edited January 10, 2017 by Olaf
qualifying "good"

[gjm 3258]

29 minutes ago, NZ BMW said:

Maybe see what this guy will offload this for and get it fixed or put in a used box: https://trademe.co.nz/1234442969

Interesting... Not something I'd considered.

27 minutes ago, 3pedals said:

That's a big demand list for not much money.

All  of the jacked up front wheel drive pseudo 4WD's will throw themselves off the road with the slightest of provocation  and the older they are e.g. 97-2001 the worse they are.   The later ones are reasonable but outside the budget.

That's a real challenge Graham !

What could come off the list (compromise)  and in what order ?

We love a challenge around here, don't we?

I'd need to think hard about what could be dropped off the list. 4WD is an obvious candidate, but if we do what we hope to, 4WD could prove to be indispensable on occasion.

An alternative that I saw was the Subaru Forester. Again though, I know little to nothing about them.

[lord_jagganath 421]

Foresters are great AWD machines, a little on the low side though. http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/used-cars/subaru/auction-1237140845.htm like this with them funny wheels,

http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/used-cars/subaru/auction-1219511883.htm too .

if you like dealing with turbo flat fours....

[coop 261]

For the price, hard to go past one of these ...

 

http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/used-cars/audi/auction-1237801420.htm

 

Otherwise, ML Mercedes are bloody cheap now diesels, V6 and V8 models. 

Might be able to find a Grand Cherokee with the same 2.7 diesel as the Merc, for a bit less due to the badge (but with cheaper parts and a superior 4wd system). 

[gjm 3258]

1 hour ago, lord_jagganath said:

Foresters are great AWD machines, a little on the low side though. http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/used-cars/subaru/auction-1237140845.htm like this with them funny wheels,

http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/used-cars/subaru/auction-1219511883.htm too .

if you like dealing with turbo flat fours....

Not too fussed about the turbo. They're typically a bit taller than a more ordinary road car, and that's what's going to make getting in and out easier. Curiously, I've not seen many of the 2.5 boxers around

1 hour ago, coop said:

For the price, hard to go past one of these ...

http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/used-cars/audi/auction-1237801420.htm

Otherwise, ML Mercedes are bloody cheap now diesels, V6 and V8 models. 

Might be able to find a Grand Cherokee with the same 2.7 diesel as the Merc, for a bit less due to the badge (but with cheaper parts and a superior 4wd system). 

A Quattro wagon of some sort is definitely a consideration. The Allroad has the benefit of being a little taller, but they're heavier than the A6 and tend to guzzle fuel.

Grand Cherokees are cheap now. Perhaps a little bigger than would be ideal, but I'll not write them off.

We're going to have to do some car yard touring, just to get in and out of a few to see what constitutes too low.

[gjm 3258]

3 minutes ago, 3pedals said:

http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/used-cars/mazda/auction-1234043630.htm

Meets most of your original requirements

- smallish , upright driving position, safe, cheap to run & maintain, room for the dogs (and kids)  just not 4WD  and its "SENSIBLE" big enough to tow a reasonable trailer.

Buy a spare set of wheel and fit mud grips and it will go anywhere one of those pissy CRV could go.

Quattros / allroads . Cherokees etc. are back into big vehicle terrain and high cost to own & operate

That could work. 

I have looked at an Audi A$ (B5) 2.4V6 Quattro Avant in the past. Need to dig into reliability and so on.

[gjm 3258]

3 minutes ago, 3pedals said:

Reliability is crap on the older ones and you will need to dig even deeper into your wallet to pay the horrendous service bills

I'm probably still thinking like an Englishman. Car prices here are huge by comparison to in Europe (and that goes for Japanese cars as well as European ones) and servicing for anything Euro is easily and cheaply found.
Unfortunately our budget just won't let go after something that will genuinely fit the bill (in NZ).

<sigh>

After all the grief we had with a Mazda Tribute, I can't say I'm keen on the idea of a MPV: I drove our ex-landlords MPV, and that understeered like it was an Olympic sport. Could have been his car of course, as he wasn't exactly fastidious about servicing and maintenance, and was possibly too-good a friend of the guy at the local garage and WoF station.

[SmithyInWelly 212]

52 minutes ago, 3pedals said:

Reliability is crap on the older ones and you will need to dig even deeper into your wallet to pay the horrendous service bills

I had a '99 NZ new 2.4 Avant that I picked up very cheaply ($1k) some years ago from a work colleague who was going o/s. It had done 240k's when I got it but despite showing some wear commensurate with it's age and kms, it drove pretty well and everything worked. Gave it a basic service when I got it, and again annually... preceded to keep it for over three years and 40km - all it cost was a battery and tyres. Put it on Tard Me and couldn't give it away, so ended up giving it to a relative who needed something cheap and safe to transport her new human.

That was three years ago. It's now living rurally and clicked over 300km mid last year. In terms of "horrendous bills" she's had to spend $500-odd on a sensor and something or other for the suspension early last year. 

Was in it a few mths ago and it still drives beautifully.

 

And yes, I'm aware that they're not all that good - but they're not all crap either, particularly if you get one at a good price (or free lol).

[gjm 3258]

Makes the one Turners have in HB look very expensive!
Thanks for the positive review. It's often the case (with any car, or anything for that matter) that reports tend to be where the writer has something to complain about - useful, but not necessarily telling the whole story. A4 B5 Quattros tend to rot out the upper rear suspension mounts, but they're not expensive and pretty easy to replace. (I did ours. ) 

A friend in the UK has a Mk1 A3 1.8T that's covered similar mileage on very little more than regular maintenance. Of course, there will be others that have had major issues.

[Olaf 3317]

Honest John warns that the air springs go on the 2001-2006 Allroads, they appear to be around USD300 a piece.

http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/carbycar/audi/a6-allroad-2000/ "Audi A6 Allroad 2000-2007 rated 6th most likely car built 1997-2009 to suffer expensive problems according to Warranty Direct December 2012  Reliability Index , with an index of 502 (compared with a rating of 6 for the best)."  Not exactly a recommendation for cheap motoring!

[gjm 3258]

8 minutes ago, Olaf said:

Honest John warns that the air springs go on the 2001-2006 Allroads, they appear to be around USD300 a piece.

http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/carbycar/audi/a6-allroad-2000/ "Audi A6 Allroad 2000-2007 rated 6th most likely car built 1997-2009 to suffer expensive problems according to Warranty Direct December 2012  Reliability Index , with an index of 502 (compared with a rating of 6 for the best)."  Not exactly a recommendation for cheap motoring!

They do.
Like on a Range Rover, the often-used solution is to replace with conventional (steel) suspension. You lose the ride height adjustability, but gain simplicity.

[Allanw 1071]

If a Forester works, go for that :-) Less SUV like, more car like.

SOME models of the 2.5's can blow head gaskets if they get a bit warm, or if the heater matrix blocks up (fairly common - it controls the thermostat as the water goes through the matrix, then feeds past the thermostat, creating a feedback loop). the 2.0 SOHC is a really torquey engine, but not a rocketship, though the 4 speed auto does let them down a bit, but is a reliable box. I had a 2.0 legacy engine that had nothing done until I left the company at 420K, although apparently it only lasted until 470K. That was an earlier jap import model (92), so the car had 2 auto box failures (common for the early ones, 100K and 280K, converted to manual the second time) and other than that, ONLY brakes, A/C leak repairs and the like, and a radiator after I ran it dry one day, and STILL didn't kill it! It was in the company from 40K, and had it's arse caned all the time, even from cold by the first driver, before me. I've had a couple of other high milage ones too (all non-turbos).

If an outback is high enough for her, I'd take a 3.0 H6 of early 2000's vintage. Probably not really hungrier than the CRV for your often rural(?) driving.

Dad has a 2006 3.0 Legacy, and does mostly short trips in town and still gets about 11L/100kms (better than his manual E30 325i!). He gets down in the 8's easy on trips from Whangarei to Katikati. Mum drives it on and off the brakes and throttle too, which doesn't help economy!

The 3.0 is a nice motor, not as hungry as you probably expect it to be.

 

[gjm 3258]

11 minutes ago, Allanw said:

The 3.0 is a nice motor, not as hungry as you probably expect it to be.

We had a drive in a 3-litre Outback a few years ago. Very impressed by just how smoooooth the engine was. Compared to the 320d it'll be like a turbine!

I thought they were fairly thirsty though... Another one well worth a check.

In fairness, the suggestion of a CR-V was based on reliability and popularity, and because I had all-but given up finding a sensibly suitable estate car. Sorry... Wagon. I'm getting all English-ified agan.