Electric cars emit 50% less greenhouse gas than diesel, study finds

[E30 325i Rag-Top 2956]

On ‎27‎/‎01‎/‎2018 at 1:53 PM, Michael. said:

Can you charge as you drive with a trailer generator attached?? 

Yes, you can, it is called a "range extender" and this still counts as a fully electric vehicle as the ICE is not directly connected to the drive train as it is a generator. Something the NZTA still can't get it's head around.

[Gabe79 410]

1 hour ago, E30 325i Rag-Top said:

Yes, you can, it is called a "range extender" and this still counts as a fully electric vehicle as the ICE is not directly connected to the drive train as it is a generator. Something the NZTA still can't get it's head around.

Note that my answer is a mechanical one related to the Leaf. It will not charge while turned on.

[kiwi535 538]

Interesting thoughts on electrolysis and hydrogen as fuel for a steel plant

[aja540i 1906]

Have done over 7000 Km in the leaf now, with that and the price of fuel the way it is, it has made a good start on paying for itself!!  I see EVs becoming a lot more popular in Auckland in the near future too....

[zero 1162]

30 minutes ago, aja540i said:

Have done over 7000 Km in the leaf now, with that and the price of fuel the way it is, it has made a good start on paying for itself!!  I see EVs becoming a lot more popular in Auckland in the near future too....

Governments breaking election promises on tax will do that.....

[aja540i 1906]

Breaking election promises is what governments do, you can't act surprised!

[zero 1162]

3 hours ago, aja540i said:

Breaking election promises is what governments do, you can't act surprised!

Of course.

Its just surprising that the current government has broken more election promises in the first six months than the last one did in nine years. 

[kiwi535 538]

ruc will come in for electric cars if they become too popular

 

[E30 325i Rag-Top 2956]

Correct, Electric vehicles have a temporary exemption from RUC. As soon as the tax $$$ from petrol starts to drop that exemption will stop.

[Michael. 2313]

Yep, it's soon to be a countered thing. 

Can't have people getting away not paying their share! 

[M3AN 4016]

I didn't realise there was a specific exemption, is there a time limit on that?

 

[Gabe79 410]

12 minutes ago, M3AN said:

I didn't realise there was a specific exemption, is there a time limit on that?

 

https://www.transport.govt.nz/multi-modal/climatechange/electric-vehicles/

 

Quote

 

Extending the Road User Charges (RUC) exemption on light vehicles until they make up two percent of the light vehicles fleet

On 22 September 2016, the RUC exemption for light electric vehicles was extended until 31 December 2021. 

This will save the average electric vehicle driver approximately $600 per vehicle each year.

RUC exemption for heavy electric vehicles until they make up 2 per cent of the heavy vehicle fleet

The Energy Innovation (Electric Vehicles and Other Matters) Amendment Act includes legislation to introduce a RUC exemption for heavy electric vehicles.

This will result in significant savings for heavy electric vehicle drivers. This will be dependent on the type of vehicle and the distance it travels in a year.

This exemption took effect from 1 September 2017.

 

 

[M3AN 4016]

^ thanks

16 minutes ago, M3AN said:

I didn't realise there was a specific exemption, is there a time limit on that?

Quote

Extending the Road User Charges (RUC) exemption on light vehicles until they make up two percent of the light vehicles fleet

On 22 September 2016, the RUC exemption for light electric vehicles was extended until 31 December 2021. 

 

[zero 1162]

4 hours ago, kiwi535 said:

ruc will come in for electric cars if they become too popular

 

Yup, they did a similar thing to owners of solar panels.

[kwhelan 241]

copied and pasted so take with a grain of salt

 

Good news, E-cars used less CO2 than diesel cars…but only after 585,000km! Quote:

 

The German ADAC association, the equivalent of America’s AAA, carried a CO2 comparison for a variety e-autos and combustion engine cars. The results were very surprising, says German magazine Autobild here.

Today electric cars are being pushed as a clean and environmentally friendly alternative, while diesel and gasoline burning engines are being villainized as polluters and climate killers. In their comparison, however, the ADAC came up with some unexpected results. CO2 cars indeed have huge CO2 footprints.

The ADAC reminds that energy does not only get used while driving the vehicle, but also for their manufacture and later for their recycling and supply of fuel.

 

According to the ADAC, the manufacture of the electric car’s battery requires a considerable amount of energy, which has a considerable impact on its overall CO2 budget over its lifetime.

The ADAC compared cars from three different segments to find out if electric cars are really more climate friendly: The overall result:

General conclusions are not possible. But: electric cars in Germany today are already in many cases a good environmentally friendly choice. However, they could have a much better CO2 balance if they used exclusively renewable electricity.”

So far Germany’s power grid still relies heavily on fossil fuels.

ADAC looked at diesel, gasoline, natural gas, hybrids, e-cars and others over the range from compact to large sizes cars from a wide variety of manufacturers. It compared the cars after 150,000 km using the German power supply mix of 2013, which had a renewable energy share of 23%. (Today renewable energies have a share of 33%, which would improve the result of the e-cars somewhat).

The ADAC found that only compact electric cars had the best CO2 budget at 22.5 tonnes of CO2, while gasoline powered cars yielded 30 tonnes. For the next bigger class of cars, called small cars, electric cars still came out ahead, “but only when using the optimistic 150,000 total travel distance.” Less than that, however, they were in fact dirtier.

Note that electric cars traveling 150,000 km are rare, if they exist at all. Renewing the batteries would also mean a further CO2 budget setback.

The ADAC calls the results of their comparison “surprising”.

Autobild reports: “The reality, however, is that small e-cars are often used as a second car or a car for the city. At 50,000 km of driving an e-car cannot compensate the high CO2 emissions for manufacturing, recycling and power provision.”

Upper midsize: e-car worthwhile only after 585,000 km

In other words, with Germany’s current electric power supply mix, even small e-cars still have a greater CO2 budget than diesel powered ones of the same class for longer lifetime distances.

German “Autobild” magazine adds:

Surprising results in the upper mid-class cars: Here diesel produces the best result with 33 tonnes of CO2 over 150,000 km! Because the e-car produces so much CO2 (41 tonnes CO2) for the manufacture of the batteries and recycling, they would first be worthwhile only after 580,000 km compared to diesel engine cars.”

So what’s the take home message? If you’re concerned about CO2 warming the planet, then purchase a diesel engine car. End quote.

I wonder what the Gunts are going to say about this not unsurprising result. I’ve always said these virtue-signalling wankers in e-cars drive around emitting vast clouds of smug are ignoring the mining and manufacturing processes that go into their smug driven vehicles.

That’s another myth busted.

[aja540i 1906]

Good study, not applicable in NZ, different mix of renewable/fossil energy, also takes a lot more energy to get fossil fuels to us here. I also plan on doing more than 150,000 Km in my leaf before i take it out to the back paddock and put it down!

[Young Thrash Driver 1020]

The numbers would favour electric cars much more if only the Krauts would stop culling their nuclear power plants. Nice article anyway.

[E30 325i Rag-Top 2956]

On 24 September 2018 at 4:15 PM, aja540i said:

Good study, not applicable in NZ, different mix of renewable/fossil energy, also takes a lot more energy to get fossil fuels to us here.

I wonder how much spare capacity there is in the NZ power grid, and in particular the renewable portion.

With existing demands and expected growth, how much more needs to be planned to cope with the increase in EV charging? If the number of EVs is above that estimate, by 5% or 10% does that make much difference??

[aja540i 1906]

Just now, E30 325i Rag-Top said:

I wonder how much spare capacity there is in the NZ power grid, and in particular the renewable portion.

With existing demands and expected growth, how much more needs to be planned to cope with the increase in EV charging? If the number of EVs is above that estimate, by 5% or 10% does that make much difference??

I'm pretty sure shutting down a line at Tiwai Pt smelter will free up more than enough capacity, especially if most of the charging is done overnight! 

[E30 325i Rag-Top 2956]

Isn't there a power station by the smelter to supply its juice? Not ideal to then try and distribute that power all over the country for EVs. However I do get your point, how many cars on charge = 1 smelting line I wonder?

[kiwi535 538]

32 minutes ago, E30 325i Rag-Top said:

Isn't there a power station by the smelter to supply its juice? Not ideal to then try and distribute that power all over the country for EVs. However I do get your point, how many cars on charge = 1 smelting line I wonder?

kin heaps!

 

[aja540i 1906]

the smelter uses enough power for something like 700,000 homes and has 4 lines. Gets its power from Manapouri.

[lord_jagganath 421]

we would need at least 1 more subsea HVDC cable to handle that load too. Tiwai Point takes 500+MW out of Manapouri's consented 800MW, so shutting a line would be great.

[E30 325i Rag-Top 2956]

Just need a bloody big cable to get the power from the bottom of South Island all the way up to Auckland where are the EVs will be plugged in!

There is actually a pretty good document on Transpower's web-site documenting the network planning for the next few years which does include a factor for EVs. It's a bit out of date, published in 2015, but at least there is some sort of demand forecast and plan to meet it - which makes a change!!

[kwhelan 241]

before worrying about EV increases needing a bigger power grid they have to explain what happens when they shut down Taranaki oil.

Before the gas runs out, we will need to replace 1200mw of gas fired electricity generation. That's equivalent to Benmore and Manapouri combined. A few idiot windmills and solar panels aren't going to do it, so where is the power coming from Minister?