Walnut Blasting - what to pay??

[knetikx 0]

Hi guys, 

Slowly completing the notable 'replace before tuning' list, but have been holding off walnut blasting as I'm not sure what a reasonable quote is for the job?

I've seen previous posts suggesting as little as $250, whilst the quotes I've received are nearly $900 GST exclusive! 

Anyone got a recommendation for a reputable service centre to do the job in Auckland? 

Thanks

 

[qube 3570]

$1000 is about right

$250 is way off the mark unless its a guy working out of his home garage

[B.M.W Ltd 950]

Vapor blasting is much cleaner and less invasive 

[knetikx 0]

35 minutes ago, B.M.W Ltd said:

Vapor blasting is much cleaner and less invasive 

Much difference cost wise?

[vicspaceboy 1]

Hi Knetikx, did you get this done. Want to do the same with my E91. Cheers

Edited May 1, 2020 by vicspaceboy

[smiddy 76]

Glenn, have a look at my results, using a Wurth valve port cleaner.

Was about $400 with gaskets.

[vicspaceboy 1]

Wow that's a mint result. I'll take a look into it.

Cheers for the help

[Herbmiester 923]

I had this done 3 years ago and got charged $300 for it. The guy did it with solvents and brushes, I think it was an ok job but not perfect. There are plenty of vids on YT showing solvent and walnut home jobs and I think its a 2 to 3 out of 5 for difficulty. $1000 does seem to be the most common number I hear and is what a tuning outfit in Welly quoted me. I just cant reconcile that number with the time and parts involved. I will do it myself next time with basic blaster kit and some fine grained walnut shells. I expect the kit and gaskets will cost me less than $500, I can then re sell the blasting kit and get back $250.  This video from the N54 tragic's at 0 to 60 goes through it including the mistakes they made and the simple fixes to those mistakes. 

 

 

[vicspaceboy 1]

Hey, yeah I think I read one of your posts about it. If I can find a reasonable price for it then will get someone to do it but at $1k its definitely a DIY job. Have been watching quite a few videos on it. I'm not experienced mechanically but competent enought to do the work and learn. I've ordered a upgraded PCV valve and will be ordering an upgraded charge pipe and catch can from BMS (maybe DCI also) so may as well do everything at the same time.

Car is stuttering a little under light acceleration but when I put my foot down it's pretty smooth. Figure could be a few things so doing some maintenance and see it improves (changing sparks also) - could be the HPFP or a number of other things.

[Herbmiester 923]

15 hours ago, vicspaceboy said:

Hey, yeah I think I read one of your posts about it. If I can find a reasonable price for it then will get someone to do it but at $1k its definitely a DIY job. Have been watching quite a few videos on it. I'm not experienced mechanically but competent enought to do the work and learn. I've ordered a upgraded PCV valve and will be ordering an upgraded charge pipe and catch can from BMS (maybe DCI also) so may as well do everything at the same time.

Car is stuttering a little under light acceleration but when I put my foot down it's pretty smooth. Figure could be a few things so doing some maintenance and see it improves (changing sparks also) - could be the HPFP or a number of other things.

Your heading down the right path, spark plus maybe the culprit and as they are a maintenance item fresh ones wont hurt. 

[HalfJobHarry 106]

$1000 is nearly 9 hours of labour.......and a a maximum of $55 for walnuts? 

So taking off the intake...turning the engine over a few times and putting the blasting machine on....the "Euro Tax" here gets to the point of taking people for mugs really....

A 'pricey" place in the UK would have charged no more than $500 and that was seem as steep. 

I've also seem some excellent results with GDI intake cleaner. I'd be a little hesitant to fill up the inlets with the stuff and start scrubbing away...but frankly it's not any more crazy than blasting walnuts in there at high pressure. 

I feel like some good soul should just offer the gear for rental like those carpet cleaning machines or something. That said, I wish all the BMW special tools were available for rental...for DIYers we may only need these special tools once every few years...

[vicspaceboy 1]

Eurosurgeon quoted me 750-850 + GST

BMW botany workshop quoted 650-900 + GST

So not so cheap.

[Matth5 471]

2 hours ago, HalfJobHarry said:

I feel like some good soul should just offer the gear for rental like those carpet cleaning machines or something. That said, I wish all the BMW special tools were available for rental...for DIYers we may only need these special tools once every few years...

Maybe a good idea for a side business, renting out specialized tools...

[HalfJobHarry 106]

2 hours ago, Matth5 said:

Maybe a good idea for a side business, renting out specialized tools...

Hmm.....could be. Would need to take a deposit at least to the value of the tool though. Even in a more casual way for those who might already have the tools. I'd certainly be willing to pay for a rental plus a security deposit. 

[HalfJobHarry 106]

2 hours ago, vicspaceboy said:

Eurosurgeon quoted me 750-850 + GST

BMW botany workshop quoted 650-900 + GST

So not so cheap.

The latter once quoted me $250 + GST to change the oil housing gasket on an N46. It's three bolts easily accessed from the top of the engine and the OE gasket is $12.....

[HalfJobHarry 106]

On 5/1/2020 at 6:36 PM, Herbmiester said:

I had this done 3 years ago and got charged $300 for it. The guy did it with solvents and brushes, I think it was an ok job but not perfect. There are plenty of vids on YT showing solvent and walnut home jobs and I think its a 2 to 3 out of 5 for difficulty. $1000 does seem to be the most common number I hear and is what a tuning outfit in Welly quoted me. I just cant reconcile that number with the time and parts involved. I will do it myself next time with basic blaster kit and some fine grained walnut shells. I expect the kit and gaskets will cost me less than $500, I can then re sell the blasting kit and get back $250.  This video from the N54 tragic's at 0 to 60 goes through it including the mistakes they made and the simple fixes to those mistakes. 

 

 

I'd take the kit off your hands for that price if you do go down this route. It's going to pay for itself twice just the first time ...

[Gaz 1061]

8 hours ago, Matth5 said:

Maybe a good idea for a side business, renting out specialized tools...

Problem with that is that to buy the tools is often a very expensive exercise. Then they end up getting damaged by people who may not not know what how to use them

6 hours ago, HalfJobHarry said:

Hmm.....could be. Would need to take a deposit at least to the value of the tool though. Even in a more casual way for those who might already have the tools. I'd certainly be willing to pay for a rental plus a security deposit. 

There's a tools for hire thread in the for sale section with what people have and are willing to lend out 

[Gaz 1061]

12 hours ago, HalfJobHarry said:

$1000 is nearly 9 hours of labour.......and a a maximum of $55 for walnuts? 

So taking off the intake...turning the engine over a few times and putting the blasting machine on....the "Euro Tax" here gets to the point of taking people for mugs really....

A 'pricey" place in the UK would have charged no more than $500 and that was seem as steep. 

I've also seem some excellent results with GDI intake cleaner. I'd be a little hesitant to fill up the inlets with the stuff and start scrubbing away...but frankly it's not any more crazy than blasting walnuts in there at high pressure. 

I feel like some good soul should just offer the gear for rental like those carpet cleaning machines or something. That said, I wish all the BMW special tools were available for rental...for DIYers we may only need these special tools once every few years...

You make it sound so simple! On a 335, it's at least 5 hours labour plus gaskets and walnuts. Even at $100 an hour you're well on your way unless you are paying some backyard mechanic $20 And a box of do-bros

[HalfJobHarry 106]

3 hours ago, Gaz said:

You make it sound so simple! On a 335, it's at least 5 hours labour plus gaskets and walnuts. Even at $100 an hour you're well on your way unless you are paying some backyard mechanic $20 And a box of do-bros

What's not simple about it? Am I missing something? If I had the equipment to hand, removing the airbox and intake is a 10 minute job if you have done it before. You have to tape off the other 5 intakes. Rotate CYL 1 to TDC...attach your blaster....even the DIY videos with marginal equipment working right, the actual blasting seems to take less than 30 seconds per cylinder. The super diligent people then seem to blow out the cylinder with air via the spark plug hole as a precaution. The BMW procedure does not do this. 

Given the above I reckon the total is about an hour....say 2 for kicks plus the roughly 12kg of walnuts doing six seems to require. At retail they pay about $55 for a 20kg bag, so $30 for walnuts. 

For a first timer DIYer I can see a bit of a mess about for a few hours or more figuring stuff out, but a pro who does this regularly? 5 hours...I can't see how you can reckon that. 

I don't see there is a requirement to change the gaskets unless they need it, granted if it's been 55k they probably need it. 

I'd love to be dead wrong here, but can't see how an accounting of the time involved ever reaches $1000 + GST...

 

 

Edited May 25, 2020 by HalfJobHarry

[Gaz 1061]

1 hour ago, HalfJobHarry said:

What's not simple about it? Am I missing something? If I had the equipment to hand, removing the airbox and intake is a 10 minute job if you have done it before. You have to tape off the other 5 intakes. Rotate CYL 1 to TDC...attach your blaster....even the DIY videos with marginal equipment working right, the actual blasting seems to take less than 30 seconds per cylinder. The super diligent people then seem to blow out the cylinder with air via the spark plug hole as a precaution. The BMW procedure does not do this. 

Given the above I reckon the total is about an hour....say 2 for kicks plus the roughly 12kg of walnuts doing six seems to require. At retail they pay about $55 for a 20kg bag, so $30 for walnuts. 

 

I've just highlighted where you have gone wrong. Talk to anyone who has done the work or better yet give it a go yourself and you'll quickly find it's not as simple as you say.

Blasting depends on how bad the build is, have seen some shockers which take over an hour just to clean them out properly.

If you do find that you can do it under an hour without breaking stuff and thoroughly, then I'll give you my bosses phone number for a job

[Herbmiester 923]

I cant say I have done it, but I have removed my intake manifold. I removed the intake manifold when I was investigating a few other issues and now that I have done it my estimate for removing it would be 1 to 1.5 hours. The blasting using the correct grit walnut should take about the same 1 to 1.5 hours. Then another hour to put it back together. So 5 hours should cover it. I have a wee bit of experience with Walnut and Vapour blasting and the carbon will move easily in my opinion.  You will need to buy a blasting kit and having used a gravity fed unit I could not see why it wouldn't work in this application. 

[blake12 23]

Anything under $600 would be mates rates. 

[B.M.W Ltd 950]

26 minutes ago, blake12 said:

Anything under $600 would be mates rates. 

You would have to hope the mate has Public Liability Insurance or deep pockets if it goes tits up

[HalfJobHarry 106]

2 hours ago, Gaz said:

I've just highlighted where you have gone wrong. Talk to anyone who has done the work or better yet give it a go yourself and you'll quickly find it's not as simple as you say.

Blasting depends on how bad the build is, have seen some shockers which take over an hour just to clean them out properly.

If you do find that you can do it under an hour without breaking stuff and thoroughly, then I'll give you my bosses phone number for a job

I agree totally that conditions do vary...but then why fix the price to the 'upper bound' for the job? Still even on the longer end numbers that are going around and this is a 5-6 hour job...it's still a stretch in my mind to get it up to the $1000 dollar mark. 

It would be a lot more transparent if the quote were a range with the caveat that it depends on how bad it is etc etc. 

I'm not saying and didn't say I can do it in under an hour. I'm saying I reckon an experienced professional could be doing one in...lets say 'average' condition in less than two hours.

If anybody has the equipment going spare , I have a recently extracted N54 on an engine stand that has medium-heavy dirty intakes, I'd be keen to take 'first time walnut blaster challenge'. 

Another element that I think plays a part is the fear factor...this clearly is one of those jobs that could do some damage if it goes wrong. Between the "specialist" equipment and the risk factor, my feeling it's just one of those things that the majority of people will just stump up the cash to transfer the risk to a mechanic. 

 

[Gaz 1061]

If a builder gives you an estimate build a house of 3 months, do you tell him no, I reckon it'll take 1 month? 

What is you do for a job? Cause I'll turn up one day and tell you that it should be done 65% faster than your estimate