1987 E30 M325i

[gjm 3193]

This is an on-behalf post. I'll answer questions as best I can, and refer to the owner for those that I can't.
I recently posted here to try and identify with some certainty whether a given vehicle was a true M325i. On balance, it seems likely this one is.

NZ new 1987 Diamant-Schwarz 325i with all relevant M325i attributes. Purchased from Shelley Motors in Wellington who (I think) were bought out by Jeff Gray. Absolute, categoric confirmation that this is a M325i is difficult but it fits the description, and that is what the first owner has said it was bought as.

Of particular note are the following options:

0209 - Differential lock 25%
0339 - Shadow line
0481 - Sports seat
0704 - M Sports suspension
0708 - M Sports steering wheel leather

And it has the black headlining.

3 owners from new; current owner is the son of the first owner and lives in Auckland. He is moving to Australia and selling the car here rather than taking it with him.

Let's get the warts out of the way.
The dash is cracked, the air conditioning is shot, there are some seal issues, and some floor pan rust is starting to creep in. The interior was changed at some point from the original houndstooth to full leather due to wear and tear - it's in good condition, but it's not original. Original 15" basket weaves had cracked and were disposed of some 10-12years ago instead of being repaired/reconditioned - it is currently fitted with after- market Bayern wheels.

Paintwork is reasonable with some fairly minor wear and tear. There was a respray 6 or so years ago.

At some point it was involved in a minor accident and required a new front skirt. The repairer couldn’t source an original part, so a later piece was fitted.

No other major work has ever been required.

WoF expired in September last year; rego expired in December 2022. I have advised the owner that he should at least put the rego on hold but that back-rego will be due when that is done.

Pics attached. If there is anything in particular that anyone interested would like to see, please let me know.

Pricing is tricky. Truly excellent examples of the facelift E30 M325i has listed at $50k or more, but prices have come back a bit since then. The PFL cars are rarer, but this one does need work to return it to excellent, original condition. The owner has had some quoting done and estimates $12k or so to get this car to where it should be.
I'll pitch this at $30k but will discuss further with the owner.

 

[E30 325i Rag-Top 2915]

Interesting car. To those ITK it looks kinda weird with the Tech II front and rear bumpers on a PFL. Most non-BMW rivet counters probably wouldn’t think anything of it though.

Something weird going on with the VIN decode though - three sets of wheels on one car..??

[gjm 3193]

49 minutes ago, E30 325i Rag-Top said:

Something weird going on with the VIN decode though - three sets of wheels on one car..??

I've seen that on several M325i decodes. I suspect it is a case of mistransposition of details, or BMW having changed the use of an option code at some point.

[e30ftw 394]

That kit wouldn't be the original it came with, being PreFL it would have Tech1 (like the skirts  / spoiler). The rear bumper is either modified or a fiberglass rep to fit PreFL rear arches (Tech2 bumper is longer).

[E30 325i Rag-Top 2915]

6 hours ago, gjm said:

or BMW having changed the use of an option code at some point.

Whilst it is quite un-BMW to change anything once it has been defined, I think that is the case here.

I think both options 311 and 333 have been re-purposed over time. In this instance it is the option code 333 that is the most interesting.

From looking at VIN decodes on older BMWs  previously I think that code 333 used to be the “M Packet” or “M Sport Package” option which is key to the authenticity of a “genuine” M325i or M-Sport car. This has now been changed to code 337 for current M-Sport cars.

The other point of interest is the anthracite headliner, which isn’t listed seperately (option code 775) and so has been included as part of a “packet” option that is a number of options grouped together.

[Olaf 3236]

On 8/28/2023 at 11:11 PM, gjm said:

This is an on-behalf post. I'll answer questions as best I can, and refer to the owner for those that I can't.
I recently posted here to try and identify with some certainty whether a given vehicle was a true M325i. On balance, it seems likely this one is.

NZ new 1987 Diamant-Schwarz 325i with all relevant M325i attributes. Purchased from Shelley Motors in Wellington who (I think) were bought out by Jeff Gray. Absolute, categoric confirmation that this is a M325i is difficult but it fits the description, and that is what the first owner has said it was bought as.

Of particular note are the following options:

0209 - Differential lock 25%
0339 - Shadow line
0481 - Sports seat
0704 - M Sports suspension
0708 - M Sports steering wheel leather

And it has the black headlining.

3 owners from new; current owner is the son of the first owner and lives in Auckland. He is moving to Australia and selling the car here rather than taking it with him.

Let's get the warts out of the way.
The dash is cracked, the air conditioning is shot, there are some seal issues, and some floor pan rust is starting to creep in. The interior was changed at some point from the original houndstooth to full leather due to wear and tear - it's in good condition, but it's not original. Original 15" basket weaves had cracked and were disposed of some 10-12years ago instead of being repaired/reconditioned - it is currently fitted with after- market Bayern wheels.

Paintwork is reasonable with some fairly minor wear and tear. There was a respray 6 or so years ago.

At some point it was involved in a minor accident and required a new front skirt. The repairer couldn’t source an original part, so a later piece was fitted.

No other major work has ever been required.

WoF expired in September last year; rego expired in December 2022. I have advised the owner that he should at least put the rego on hold but that back-rego will be due when that is done.

Pics attached. If there is anything in particular that anyone interested would like to see, please let me know.

Pricing is tricky. Truly excellent examples of the facelift E30 M325i has listed at $50k or more, but prices have come back a bit since then. The PFL cars are rarer, but this one does need work to return it to excellent, original condition. The owner has had some quoting done and estimates $12k or so to get this car to where it should be.
I'll pitch this at $30k but will discuss further with the owner.

 

 

 

 

So where are you in all this Graham?  Are you the seller's agent?  

My view:  it looks like it came out the showroom as an M325i.  Plenty of changes throughout it's life.  It's down at heel, and rough around the edges.  Assume it needs a full fluids and rubbers changeout, as there's no mention of folders full of history, or regular maintenance.  It needs re-rego and WoF.  It's looking neglected.  You haven't mentioned Mileage?  Also the current owner is the son of the first owner - who was the second owner?

It will never be a $50k car - it'd need two things to get close: 1) a full restoration including back to Tech 1 spec, and collectors are understandably picky about milege and provenance - it's only original once!  2) a market cycle or two, and a strong economy to make this attractive to someone cashed-up in ten years or so.  In order to make that worthwhile, you'd want $10k headroom (margin) on a current sell price ($35k if *really* tidy and back to tech 1?), and $15-20k to sort everything out (paint and body, correct trim, suspension, and really addressing an old (and possibly neglected car.  You do the math on what the buy price is to make it work.

Or, you view it as a driver.  Accept it as a bitser, it's got bits of tech 1, bits of tech 2, and needs a tidy.  You're not going to try and make it what it's not, you just want it clean tidy and ready to dance.  $15-20k would be a generous bid, and you'll be putting in $5-10k to get it sorted so you can drive it anywhere in the country and it won't let you down - you might not get the aircon fixed in there though.

[gjm 3193]

24 minutes ago, Olaf said:

So where are you in all this Graham?  Are you the seller's agent?  

My view:  it looks like it came out the showroom as an M325i.  Plenty of changes throughout it's life.  It's down at heel, and rough around the edges.  Assume it needs a full fluids and rubbers changeout, as there's no mention of folders full of history, or regular maintenance.  It needs re-rego and WoF.  It's looking neglected.  You haven't mentioned Mileage?  Also the current owner is the son of the first owner - who was the second owner?

It will never be a $50k car - it'd need two things to get close: 1) a full restoration including back to Tech 1 spec, and collectors are understandably picky about milege and provenance - it's only original once!  2) a market cycle or two, and a strong economy to make this attractive to someone cashed-up in ten years or so.  In order to make that worthwhile, you'd want $10k headroom (margin) on a current sell price ($35k if *really* tidy and back to tech 1?), and $15-20k to sort everything out (paint and body, correct trim, suspension, and really addressing an old (and possibly neglected car.  You do the math on what the buy price is to make it work.

Or, you view it as a driver.  Accept it as a bitser, it's got bits of tech 1, bits of tech 2, and needs a tidy.  You're not going to try and make it what it's not, you just want it clean tidy and ready to dance.  $15-20k would be a generous bid, and you'll be putting in $5-10k to get it sorted so you can drive it anywhere in the country and it won't let you down - you might not get the aircon fixed in there though.

Nothing in it for me. I was approached by the owner and asked what I thought "my car is worth" - at the time there was no mention of it even possibly being a M325i. That came out later.

Given Jons advice around code 333, I agree - it was a M325i when bought new.

The rest? Yes. I've tried to present it as honestly as possible. Mileage is shown in one of the pics as just shy of 221000km. I'll ask about service history, and I have advised the seller that he needs to sort the rego before sale. It's not yet a re-rego as that expired in December last year, giving up to 12 months to get it sorted before de-registration. There will be a back-payment even if simply having rego put on hold.

The price is definitely open to negotiation, but I'll not be involved in that. The seller has posted in on TradeMe now, with a $35k tag. I do think that is very optimistic.

[Olaf 3236]

$35k? "He's dreamin'".

@gjm It does rather look like you're selling it.  Is he lazy and duped you in to doing this work for free, or just inept and you've swooped in to help out?  As the champion of "all e30's are over-priced and not good value", I'd have expected a very different estimate from you!  

Edited August 31, 2023 by Olaf
messing with gif

[gjm 3193]

2 hours ago, Olaf said:

$35k? "He's dreamin'".

@gjm It does rather look like you're selling it.  Is he lazy and duped you in to doing this work for free, or just inept and you've swooped in to help out?  As the champion of "all e30's are over-priced and not good value", I'd have expected a very different estimate from you!  

I've said I think $35k is too high, and that I'd expect offers under $30k. The rarity of a PFL M325i could easily add to the value, but it'd need a buyer who is specifically looking for that.

Not my car, not my sale. Just trying to help out.

[e30ftw 394]

IMO Prefacelift M325i is less desireable. Even if it is rarer. A prefacelift shell is more prone to rust, and this one looking pretty neglected and having likely sat outside for some time is probably hiding some rust in the firewall and boot. I also notice the facelift headlights, wiring has been hacked to wire them up.

If it was with its original bumpers, weaves and houdstooth interior but in this rough state, I could *maybe* see someone forking out near the $30k and spending $5 to $10k restoring it.

As it stands you'd be sourcing Mtech1 kit (weitz had a kit 4k recently), chrome bumpers, weaves (2k plus), complete engine overhaul and likely suspension and everything else needing attention you be in the $15 to $20k territory getting it back to an original state, that's not even including finding houndstooth interior.

[swapsndeals 108]

Good car how it is. As long as it gets you from a to b in this day & age 

[Eagle 1519]

Doesn't even have a wof so who knows. Not sure why the owner doesn't get one?

[swapsndeals 108]

4 hours ago, Eagle said:

Doesn't even have a wof so who knows. Not sure why the owner doesn't get one?

Good point if it passes wof would make it easy to sell even a wof check would be handy

[gjm 3193]

9 hours ago, Eagle said:

Doesn't even have a wof so who knows. Not sure why the owner doesn't get one?

 

4 hours ago, swapsndeals said:

Good point if it passes wof would make it easy to sell even a wof check would be handy

Agreed. This, and not having put the rego on hold, are red flags for a buyer.

I have advised the rego (at the very least) should be sorted. 

 

 

[KwS 2373]

Should just put it on hold for him, you dont need to be the registered owner to do so online.

[gjm 3193]

1 hour ago, KwS said:

Should just put it on hold for him, you dont need to be the registered owner to do so online.

There'll be back payments required to cover the period from December through now. I keep telling the owner it needs to be done!

[swapsndeals 108]

2 minutes ago, gjm said:

There'll be back payments required to cover the period from December through now. I keep telling the owner it needs to be done!

Be like $30 probably 

[swapsndeals 108]

My brother & sister in law both just let their regos lapse. I had been asking them are they on hold they keep saying yes but they must have thought that ment not keeping the old one upto date. 2 cars now sitting with dead plates, 1 was a beautiful e34 525i like the one out of the movie with the high speed car chase with Robert de Niro 

[KwS 2373]

9 hours ago, gjm said:

There'll be back payments required to cover the period from December through now. I keep telling the owner it needs to be done!

The back payments are only going to keep growing the longer its not on hold, you'd be doing him a favour 

[Eagle 1519]

Owner just screams lazy

[gjm 3193]

Pressed the owner/seller for the rego to be sorted. He is taking it for a WoF tomorrow - if it passes, then rego will be renewed. If not, rego will be put on hold.

[gjm 3193]

Rego ow on hold.

I think it failed the WoF but I don't have details.

Edit: Failed on a headlight out of adjustment and a 'small power steering fluid leak'. Both issues are booked to be addressed on Monday of next week.

Edited September 6, 2023 by gjm

[Apex 693]

 

I guess its been 10 years since I sold my M325i and like house prices, they have gone up 500% in asking price, regardless of condition or history. 

E30's were great as a cheap fun car but WTF are people smoking to pay this much money for them?? 

Kind of wish I kept mine in storage now, not because id sell it but because I could in no way conceivably justify spending the price people think they are worth now? Who is buying them? Wealthy hipster kids and boomers I expect?