Truly bad tyres

[Herbmiester 909]

Well I now know what really bad tyres feel like. I have always bought decent midrange tyres or premium when I could afford it. My current daily driver, a Skoda Superb Came fitted with some Laufen S-FIt AS, 235 45 17s up front. The Rear is fitted with some Farroad FRD26's in the same sizing. To be fair the rear has shown no bad habit's yet but I dont punt it along enough to get it to break loose. The fronts are a different story however. In the dry they are ok, but quite vague. The issue is in the wet. I can get them to break traction in both 2nd and 3rd gear just by using too much throttle, especially in turns. Its very unnerving and it is only the traction control that seems to snap it back into line. The Superb is the current model, with the 110kw 340nm diesel. Being a FWD diesel with a good amount of torque, I did expect some understeer in the wet , but this is ridiculous. Hypedrive have some decent Goodyear deals on at present, so I will likely but some Eagle F1 Asymmetric 6 tyres. Hopefully that will help fix the problem. 

[Eagle 1519]

Yep i always tell people the different between expensive and cheap tires in the wet is typically massive. Almost a guarantee a lot of these wet weather car accidents are from sh*t\old tyres.    

[gjm 3193]

I had Nankang NS2s on a Mercedes 300SE. Could easily break traction, slide, anything except grip in both wet and dry. Keeping it straight and not spinning the wheels was far more of a challenge.

Conversely, we ran some Black Lions for a while, and they were better than some premium brands. But that's not typical.

You don't always get what you pay for - there are some very poor 'expensive' tyres - but it is usual that as price increases, grip, wear and noise improve.

[Palazzo 427]

My Falcon Turbo was a good tyre tester. Had brand new Re002 on it, they were great until half worn, they were then so bad I replaced them. Had Roadking (Korean something), they had surprisingly good straight line grip wet or dry, but terrible wet weather grip sideways, possibly from the noticeably softer sidewalls(?). Then Continental something 5, sport I think. They were pretty good, although got a sideways drift out of a hairpin on the Coromandel road with family in the car that I wasn’t expecting, never felt great about their performance. Then my favourites, Pilot Super Sports, would have again, got destroyed by a cut in the road taking out a rim in the process.. Finally, some Federals, seemed ok, but sold the car before having much time with them. Cheap or relatively pricey, I still think they are a lottery, but agree that cheaper seems to equal worse in the wet in general.

Edited December 29, 2023 by Palazzo
Unfinished.

[Eagle 1519]

1 hour ago, gjm said:

I had Nankang NS2s on a Mercedes 300SE. Could easily break traction, slide, anything except grip in both wet and dry. Keeping it straight and not spinning the wheels was far more of a challenge.

My W140 S600 came on brand new linglongs, you could barely move if you had to do a hill start because ESP kept cutting the power.

My Pirelli P7's on the compact are reviewed to be poor in the wet compared to other main brands but i felt they were ok. Lots of subjectivity, environment and vehicles variables with tyres for sure.

29 minutes ago, Palazzo said:

Had brand new Re002 on it, they were great until half worn

RE003 at least get very noisy when worn too. Michelin are my goto these days for car and bike tyres, they arent the best in all areas but always near the top.

[Herbmiester 909]

I have had a god Run with RE003's. I found them predictable and decent in the wet, not to bad when pushing hard.  I have Pilot Sports on the 540is and they were good but are close to replacement now. I like the look of the Goodyear Asymmetric 6 for $200 each. The reviews are very good.

[Palazzo 427]

18 minutes ago, Herbmiester said:

I have had a god Run with RE003's. I found them predictable and decent in the wet, not to bad when pushing hard.  I have Pilot Sports on the 540is and they were good but are close to replacement now. I like the look of the Goodyear Asymmetric 6 for $200 each. The reviews are very good.

Reviews are good and they are 70% off at Hyperdrive.

[KwS 2373]

Dont even get me started on Supercats. They shouldnt be legally able to be sold as tyres. Barely ok in the dry, but downright dangerous in the wet. Had two or three cars come on them now and all have been like driving on marbles in the wet.

[Eagle 1519]

Being one of the OG sh*t tyres the construction tech maybe they worse than the average Chinese etc flavor of the month. I still remember them squealing going around corners at fairly slow speeds and people always looking.

[Herbmiester 909]

One other thing I have noticed recently, is how expensive Bridgestone and to a lesser extent Advantage (Beaurepairs) have become. Tyre Clinic and of course Hyperdrive can often provide a similar spec tyre at 2/3 to 1/2 the price. Not always I will admit, and you always have to add fitting of $25 or so per tyre, but RE003s seem to have nearly doubled in price over the last 5 or 6 years. Even the buy 1 get one half price deals still make the tyres expensive. 

The other thing I notice is we seem to get Asian spec tyres that are just not sold in Europe or the USA. As such it can be hard to find reviews. The Pirelli Powergy is a good example. 

I really do struggle to find a decent tyre at a reasonable price these days and I struggle to trust the lesser brands.

[Eagle 1519]

Yep everything has gone up. Advantage (Beaurepairs) price for a Michellin PS5 225/40R18 on Nov 2022 was $360-70 and now $406 ($456 non special). PS4's at the time were around $300 iirc. Bigger sizes seem to have gone up even more. Hyper had 225/45R17 PS4's $240-$260 deals for years. A PS5 is now $317 or $365 (no special) at Advantage. Really need trade discounts now.

Guess ive been lucky paying around $250 a tyre for decades.    

[gjm 3193]

I've been using Hankooks for some time - they don't cost the earth, and deliver 90% (sometimes more) of what the best tyres do. Certainly much, much better than Linglongs, Supercats, and similar.

[Herbmiester 909]

1 hour ago, gjm said:

I've been using Hankooks for some time - they don't cost the earth, and deliver 90% (sometimes more) of what the best tyres do. Certainly much, much better than Linglongs, Supercats, and similar.

Yes, I did fit Hankooks to my wifes Skoda Octavia, and found them to be quite good. But even they seem to have rocketed up in price. 

[kwhelan 232]

2 hours ago, Eagle said:

Yep everything has gone up. Advantage (Beaurepairs) price for a Michellin PS5 225/40R18 on Nov 2022 was $360-70 and now $406 ($456 non special). PS4's at the time were around $300 iirc. Bigger sizes seem to have gone up even more. Hyper had 225/45R17 PS4's $240-$260 deals for years. A PS5 is now $317 or $365 (no special) at Advantage. Really need trade discounts now.

Guess ive been lucky paying around $250 a tyre for decades.    

most reviews Ive read recently when looking ps4 was the preferred even over the ps5, never had any issues with re003 personally and has been the goto for me but price has jumped now, noise is the big issue for me and obviously want some good life which is an oxymoron to wanting a soft grippy tyre

hands down the current ps4s 20" are the best tyre Ive ever owned/albeit inherited with the car but can I justify the price next time  not sure

to judge a tyre because you once slipped on a corner on holiday which was probably spilt diesel anyway seems a bit OTT, In Hb our roads are sh*t with potholes and rough chip so totally different to people travelling expressways at 110 km where noise will be totally different.

Both PS4s and re003 handle the taupo road at license losing speeds with absolute ease which is a good enough test for me

[Herbmiester 909]

Lets be very clear here, this is constant slipping on a wide variety of roads. So not OTT when it happens every time it rains.

[Eagle 1519]

1 hour ago, kwhelan said:

most reviews Ive read recently when looking ps4 was the preferred even over the ps5,

What was the reasoning? From what i saw the decreased wear rate was the main selling point. I know the grip was suppose to be slightly improved too but you probably couldn't tell them different unless you had measuring equipment. I went thru 2 sets of PS4's on my old E39 530i and they only lasted me 25-30,000km but wasnt easy on them. PS4 have a ST version too which is suppose to be quieter\softer than the regular

RE003 used to be my go to but the only area i found RE003's found superior to the PS4's was steering feel\response. They were cheaper than RE003 for ages, maybe still are?. They are still plenty capable but are quite old entry level tech now with Bridgestone having quite replacements.

 

[GorGasm 561]

I have had a few cheap tyres now and few/no issues, used to be a bit of a tyre snob.  Biggest issues I have had with tyres is age and i feel anyone complaining about grip levels should check the date stamp on their tyres.  I could be wrong but I suspect the main issue with the OP is that they're all season and age.

Currently I'm running Farroad FRD26 and Blacklion HU02 which came on my car/wheels.  Have had Triangle TH201 and Atturo AZ850 as well and they were fine.  With that said I rarely drive spiritedly anymore as sadly the 535i and 330e just aren't worth bothering in that regard.

I have an inkling that the new Triangle TH202 is probably a decent buy at present.

Edited December 31, 2023 by GorGasm

[kwhelan 232]

21 hours ago, Eagle said:

What was the reasoning? From what i saw the decreased wear rate was the main selling point. I know the grip was suppose to be slightly improved too but you probably couldn't tell them different unless you had measuring equipment. I went thru 2 sets of PS4's on my old E39 530i and they only lasted me 25-30,000km but wasnt easy on them. PS4 have a ST version too which is suppose to be quieter\softer than the regular

RE003 used to be my go to but the only area i found RE003's found superior to the PS4's was steering feel\response. They were cheaper than RE003 for ages, maybe still are?. They are still plenty capable but are quite old entry level tech now with Bridgestone having quite replacements.

 

can't remember exact details but think it was possibly value for buck over such a small gain or basically unproven gain, you would have to expect any good handling tyre is probably only goiing to last 25-30 on our tight single lane rough chip roads realistically

you want longer you compromise and go to a harder material and denser tread pattern

[kwhelan 232]

10 hours ago, GorGasm said:

I have had a few cheap tyres now and few/no issues, used to be a bit of a tyre snob.  Biggest issues I have had with tyres is age and i feel anyone complaining about grip levels should check the date stamp on their tyres.  I could be wrong but I suspect the main issue with the OP is that they're all season and age.

Currently I'm running Farroad FRD26 and Blacklion HU02 which came on my car/wheels.  Have had Triangle TH201 and Atturo AZ850 as well and they were fine.  With that said I rarely drive spiritedly anymore as sadly the 535i and 330e just aren't worth bothering in that regard.

I have an inkling that the new Triangle TH202 is probably a decent buy at present.

I've gone the other way, had triangles 20s on my 535wagon purely cost driven they were under 200 ea and when I finally changed, the noise at anything over 70km disappeared, it was shocking as I never realised it was the tyres that were doing it as they had been on when purchased, lasted well but were not good in the wet at all which I think is the issue with most of the cheapies, built for chinese concrete at low speeds as per their countrys experiences,I think the age thing is probably more apparant too with more plastics and possibly because they just last longer, A better tyre that lasts 30,000 k tops is hardly going to be old before its shot, yes they fill the rim low profile and look the part , some are alot better than others and you need to brand research and I would put them on my familys cars but I've reached a stage where i can afford and appreciate the difference now, up to a point that is, My current 4wheel drive commodore came factory spec with ps4 and its so good it would be criminal to even consider going lower spec.

[Eagle 1519]

End of the day it a safety issue to me. You dont need grip until you do and its very easy to buy on price with things like tyres. If you had do an evasive brake or maneuver in wet a good tyre is going to give a far better chance and enable stability control systems etc to work the best they can no avoid crashing. As above i bet tyres rarely get blamed for accidents even though they would probably prevent lots of them.

I don't see any major manufacturers using any of these inferior brands and they always want to save money.

[GorGasm 561]

By the same logic you should replace them every 5k to 10k kilometers or within 2 years as the performance of a tyre drops off significantly once worn and aged, you wouldn't want to compromise your safety would you?  There was a tyre reviews video which demonstrated a worn Michelin was significantly worse than a new budget tyre.

Regarding the triangle noise, I think I agree, the Laufenns were quite noisey as well.  The FRD26 seems pretty quiet though.

Everyone has their priorities, as a daily driver not doing any spirited driving I am happy with the performance of my budget tyres and I think they have come a long way in the last 10 years.  If I was still interested in pushing the boundaries I would look at something higher grade.  I'm also buying in the 19/20" sizes and the difference in price is huge.  Think $800 a set instead of $2400.

 

[lord_jagganath 421]

I'm quite happy with the Achilles and Accelera's from indonesia, tbh. more rubber in their build and can be obtained at a reasonable cost, from Hyper. heck, my last full set of 4 for the sienta cost 700$. 

[Eagle 1519]

1 hour ago, GorGasm said:

By the same logic you should replace them every 5k to 10k kilometers or within 2 years as the performance of a tyre drops off significantly once worn and aged, you wouldn't want to compromise your safety would you?  There was a tyre reviews video which demonstrated a worn Michelin was significantly worse than a new budget tyre.

Regarding the triangle noise, I think I agree, the Laufenns were quite noisey as well.  The FRD26 seems pretty quiet though.

Everyone has their priorities, as a daily driver not doing any spirited driving I am happy with the performance of my budget tyres and I think they have come a long way in the last 10 years.  If I was still interested in pushing the boundaries I would look at something higher grade.  I'm also buying in the 19/20" sizes and the difference in price is huge.  Think $800 a set instead of $2400.

 

5-6 years seems to be the average suggested time to replace and what id call old myself, 2 years\10k ain't old and ive never seen anything that states 2yr\10k results in any noticeable performance loss. Last 2x sets of PS4 had no noticeable less grip than new in the dry or wet when they were at 2-3mm and a couple of years old, only real advantage would be been aquaplaning resistance. Ive seen a test where a worn 2mm tread Michelin beats a cheap tyre in all conditions. 

Yeah cheap stuff has improved but so has the high end. Unfortunately big wheels are one of those dumb modern trends that you pay for. I likely wouldn't be putting on high end rubber on either if i had to own something with 19\20's, lots mid range options that have been tested so least i have an idea of what going to give me the best price vs performance.  

[kwhelan 232]

1 hour ago, GorGasm said:

By the same logic you should replace them every 5k to 10k kilometers or within 2 years as the performance of a tyre drops off significantly once worn and aged, you wouldn't want to compromise your safety would you?  There was a tyre reviews video which demonstrated a worn Michelin was significantly worse than a new budget tyre.

Regarding the triangle noise, I think I agree, the Laufenns were quite noisey as well.  The FRD26 seems pretty quiet though.

Everyone has their priorities, as a daily driver not doing any spirited driving I am happy with the performance of my budget tyres and I think they have come a long way in the last 10 years.  If I was still interested in pushing the boundaries I would look at something higher grade.  I'm also buying in the 19/20" sizes and the difference in price is huge.  Think $800 a set instead of $2400.

 

priorities, exactly, don't think anyone was every arguing otherwise but most of us have experienced a tyre that wasn't up to scratch by the sounds of it, and have a few we'd recommend there's some pretty dodgy stuff out there so hopefully someone finds this useful and it may even save a life, although you would never know or could prove it

[Herbmiester 909]

I have now had the Goodyear Eagle F1Asymmetric 6  tyres on the front of the Skoda for just over a week and have done about 600kms on them. It should come as no surprise that compared to the Laufen's they are noticeably better in all measures, (that are important to me). Wet grip is probably the most noticeable improvement, even in heavy rain I could be confident in a corner. This is not punting it either, just cornering while staying within the speed limit. The Laufenn's in comparison would lose grip, understeer and I suspect they were hydroplaning. It was hugely disconcerting and the lack of feel made it scary. When they were removed they had around 4mm's of depth maybe a bit more. In the dry its what you would expect from a good tyre, good steering feel and high grip levels. The ride is quiet and being a 45 aspect ratio tyre with no non sporty suspension, the ride is comfortable with only a slight increase in firmness. 

Sadly it looks like all the Asymmetric 6's that were on special have gone. Apparently with the change of distribution for Goodyear, Hyperdrive bought up all the existing stock. I was told we probably wont see those prices again. 

 

Edited January 27 by Herbmiester