E39 540i 6-Speed Manual Conversion

[Goose 41]

As per the title, my old E39 540i is going to get the 6-speed manual conversion treatment.

For me, the car is a “Sunday driver” and I just want to make it a bit more enjoyable / engaging to drive. I’m not trying to build a race / skid machine and want to keep the look and feel as factory as possible.

I have the key components already, Getrag 420g gearbox, gearbox sub frame, drive shaft, pedal box, shifter linkage etc. Everything else will be replaced with new parts, clutch, flywheel, hanger bearings, master / slave cylinders, shifter linkage rebuild kit etc. Diff upgrades will come later, probably much later as the “toy account” has taken a hammering with this project so far😭

Keen to hear opinions on clutch / flywheel combos, and where to purchase parts from. I’m 95% certain I will go with a dual mass F/W to keep the factory feel, unless someone can convince me otherwise? I have a “wish List” of parts on ECS Tuning’s website, but would prefer to purchase locally if it stacks up, so open to suggestions on local parts suppliers too.

I’m not in a hurry to get this done and want to make sure I have what I need before starting the job, but planning to have it done and ready for next summer😎

The mechanical side of the conversion I think I will manage ok (have done this myself successfully on my previous E36 328i) but I believe there is a bit more work on the DME / programming / electrical side with the E39, so I will be reaching out for some help in the future around this😵

There will also be a good 540 / M62 auto trans coming out if anyone needs one, happy for test drive if your interested.

Please chime in if you have useful advice info etc. Will keep this updated as I make decisions, collect parts and begin the conversion, plus include plenty of Pic’s where needed. 

 

[exextatic 111]

I'd suggest going with a DMF and OE clutch setup for a Sunday driver you want to keep enjoyable.

 

Coding a manual conversion on the earlier E39s is a little more of a nuisance than the later vehicles as you have to deal with ZCS coding strings.

You'll need the standard coding tools (NCS Expert, WinKFP) along with Zeko to aid with adjusting your ZCS string; update the ZCS string to remove the auto, write it to cluster and EWS, factory code cluster, EWS, ASC/DSC, PDC (if fitted) and then update the DME to ZB 7539328 (or 7539336 for EU2 emissions standard) and reset adaptions.

[Goose 41]

25 minutes ago, exextatic said:

Coding a manual conversion on the earlier E39s is a little more of a nuisance than the later vehicles as you have to deal with ZCS coding strings.

You'll need the standard coding tools (NCS Expert, WinKFP) along with Zeko to aid with adjusting your ZCS string; update the ZCS string to remove the auto, write it to cluster and EWS, factory code cluster, EWS, ASC/DSC, PDC (if fitted) and then update the DME to ZB 7539328 (or 7539336 for EU2 emissions standard) and reset adaptions.

😵🤯

I'm not sure I want to practice my (nonexistent) coding skills on my own vehicle for fear of bricking it. Is there an option to send the DME to someone to have this done, or is this best done in the vehicle? Is it possible to be done online remotely? I'm happy to trailer the car to somewhere this can be done too if needed, preferably on the Shore or further North. Also, happy to pay for the rite skills / service. 

Thanks for the expert advice. Still a couple of months of this stage, so have time to get a plan in place.

[exextatic 111]

1 minute ago, Goose said:

😵🤯

I'm not sure I want to practice my (nonexistent) coding skills on my own vehicle for fear of bricking it. Is there an option to send the DME to someone to have this done, or is this best done in the vehicle? Is it possible to be done online remotely? I'm happy to trailer the car to somewhere this can be done too if needed, preferably on the Shore or further North. Also, happy to pay for the rite skills / service. 

Thanks for the expert advice. Still a couple of months of this stage, so have time to get a plan in place.

It's easier done in vehicle (as a few modules are affected) and in-person is preferable in case there are any small wiring issues needing to be diagnosed / resolved. HellBM would be able to assist and are located in Silverdale.

[Eagle 1662]

My old 540i had a single mass conversion done by Hellbm, no idea what flywheel it was but don't recall any issues. It seemed to have big traction issues off the line with 3.15 diff, 275 Bridgestone S001s didn't seem to help that much.

Speedfactor may have something

[Vass 830]

We've just got done converting @Carbon's E39 to manual. It is a 2001 530i so has an M54 with an MS43 DME and went with a 5-speed ZF so not sure how much of this will be directly applicable.

He went with a Valeo SMF kit. We were a bit hesitant in regards to clutch chatter but there's no sign of it whatsoever, very quiet at idle and the shifts are nice and smooth. If I were to do my E46 conversion all over again I'd probably go with that kit as well. Weight wise the flywheel was close to the dual mass that it replaced so retained the overall feel, just with fewer moving parts. Would happily recommend it if Valeo do a G420 version of it. RockAuto was the cheapest place to source one at the time. Only part of it that seemed a bit on the cheapo side was the throwout bearing so we went with a Sachs one instead which was cheap enough.

Swapping parts over was fairly straightforward so long as you've got all the parts. Weird issue we ran into on the 530i was that the automatic diff input flange is 82mm PCD whilst the manual is 86mm so the manual driveshaft didn't mate up to the existing diff. The kit didn't come with a manual diff and couldn't find one anywhere so ended up sourcing an 86mm diff input flange from Kayne Barrie and swapping it onto the auto diff. Might not have those compatibility issues on the 540i though, I couldn't tell you.

Wiring and coding were very similar to my E46. Mostly followed videos from ShopLifeTV (used the coding instructions in the video description) and O'Leary's Garage that are both thorough and well detailed. I repurposed the old automatic wiring for the reverse light switch as well as some wires that ran from the DME box to the center console and EWS for the clutch switch and cluster wiring which saved running new wires the whole length. Mostly followed suggestions from those videos as to the wires to use and tested continuity with a multimeter.

After all was said and done we just couldn't get rid of the rev hang. I redid all the coding, double-triple checked all the wiring, swapped the clutch switch (the newer style one that attaches to the master cylinder) from my own car all without luck - the clutch was constantly registering in the ON position. Was losing my mind until @Eagle saved the day by suggesting the magnet in the master cylinder that the hall sensor uses might be stuck. Sure enough, threw in a new master cylinder and she's now good as gold.

Not sure how much of it will be applicable to a different engine/gearbox/DME combo from what we had but feel free to sing out if you get stuck on some specifics, happy to help out if I can.

[Goose 41]

Vass, thanks for the useful insight and advice.

Thanks for the heads up on the diff flange, this is something I will be checking as it hadn’t crossed my mind.

I have watched a few of the ShopLife videos already, very helpful. I should be able to manage the wiring side also as I’m a registered electrician, although not working in the trade any longer. Programming still seems a bit beyond me at this stage though!?

I was planning on installing a new master cylinder. I have one that came with the gearbox, but it looks like a rite pain to access, so would rather not find out its no good after fitting everything up! On the clutch switch, am I correct in assuming the purpose of this is to prevent the car starting unless the clutch is depressed? If my assumption is correct, can this option be bypassed / coded out?

[Vass 830]

2 minutes ago, Goose said:

On the clutch switch, am I correct in assuming the purpose of this is to prevent the car starting unless the clutch is depressed? If my assumption is correct, can this option be bypassed / coded out?

Ohh yeah, that was only a thing on US cars (and maybe some Japanese ones as well?). If you're putting an EU2 tune on then you can disregard that altogether, no need to run that wire to EWS at all. You'll only need 3 wires to the clutch switch - 12V, ground (can tap into the brake switch for those two) and to DME (pin 23, assuming it's the same on the V8).

[exextatic 111]

2 hours ago, Vass said:

Ohh yeah, that was only a thing on US cars (and maybe some Japanese ones as well?). If you're putting an EU2 tune on then you can disregard that altogether, no need to run that wire to EWS at all. You'll only need 3 wires to the clutch switch - 12V, ground (can tap into the brake switch for those two) and to DME (pin 23, assuming it's the same on the V8).

The EWS clutch switch start interlock has no bearing on the DME (no matter the tune) and will be enabled by default on US and Japanese variants. It can be coded out of the EWS module easily however.

[Vass 830]

1 hour ago, exextatic said:

The EWS clutch switch start interlock has no bearing on the DME (no matter the tune) and will be enabled by default on US and Japanese variants. It can be coded out of the EWS module easily however.

True, my bad, got my wires crossed up. EU2 cars would have come with that feature disabled from factory but yeah, it's a correlation not a causation.

The feature can easily be switched off in EWS coding with PA Soft, a simple box ticking exercise. Although if you've done the ZCS coding correctly prior to this it will have switched it to the manual gearbox option already.

[aja540i 1906]

I had my 540i touring converted by Hell BM a few years back and originally went with a light single mass flywheel, but it was a PITA and I only kept it a year or so before swapping it for a genuine DMF and clutch, both of which I got from BMW as they were only very slightly more expensive than buying and shipping a kit myself and I wanted all the parts to be correct.

The light flywheel just didn't suit the car, it was OK if you wanted to drag race someone at the traffic lights but if you just wanted to cruise around it was shuddery and horrible and almost impossible to take off smoothly. I also do quite a bit of towing and it was no good for that either.

Mine also had quite bad rev hang but I ended up selling it before I managed to solve that so I can't  help there.

[e30ftw 410]

11 hours ago, Vass said:

True, my bad, got my wires crossed up. EU2 cars would have come with that feature disabled from factory but yeah, it's a correlation not a causation.

The feature can easily be switched off in EWS coding with PA Soft, a simple box ticking exercise. Although if you've done the ZCS coding correctly prior to this it will have switched it to the manual gearbox option already.

I've got an M54 and the Valeo SMF kit, have been chasing the rev hang issue too. Have I got this right you solved it by turning the clutch switch off? By actually using the sensor and circuit? But I can turn off that feature off all together by setting the EWS coding to Manual Gearbox and not need a clutch switch setup (mines in an e30 so not so straight forward). 

 

[Harper 547]

I turn off the clutch to start in all my cars anyway. Hurts my soul to load the crank thrust bearing on cold start with no oil pressure for literally no reason. Being able to start the car without actually getting in and sitting down is a perk too. 

[Vass 830]

1 hour ago, e30ftw said:

I've got an M54 and the Valeo SMF kit, have been chasing the rev hang issue too. Have I got this right you solved it by turning the clutch switch off? By actually using the sensor and circuit? But I can turn off that feature off all together by setting the EWS coding to Manual Gearbox and not need a clutch switch setup (mines in an e30 so not so straight forward). 

No, so the clutch switch does two things:

• Send signal to the EWS to only allow the starter to get power once the pedal is pressed in - a feature generally used only in US & Japanese markets. This can easily be switched off so you can start the car regardless of clutch position.
• Send signal to the DME to cut throttle and turn off cruise control once the clutch is pressed in. This needs to be wired in and be operating properly to avoid rev hang.

Some lightweight flywheels can cause rev hang as well even with all the coding and wiring done correctly but since you're using the Valeo one that shouldn't be the cause, unless they make several different variants. We weighed the Valeo one we put in and iirc it might have actually been ever so slightly heavier than the old dual mass.

Are you still using an MS43 with that setup? And don't have a clutch switch wired in at all?

[e30ftw 410]

2 hours ago, Vass said:

No, so the clutch switch does two things:

• Send signal to the EWS to only allow the starter to get power once the pedal is pressed in - a feature generally used only in US & Japanese markets. This can easily be switched off so you can start the car regardless of clutch position.
• Send signal to the DME to cut throttle and turn off cruise control once the clutch is pressed in. This needs to be wired in and be operating properly to avoid rev hang.

Some lightweight flywheels can cause rev hang as well even with all the coding and wiring done correctly but since you're using the Valeo one that shouldn't be the cause, unless they make several different variants. We weighed the Valeo one we put in and iirc it might have actually been ever so slightly heavier than the old dual mass.

Are you still using an MS43 with that setup? And don't have a clutch switch wired in at all?

Yeah, MS43 DME and correct I do not have a clutch switch. 

p.s sorry for the thread Hijack OP

[Goose 41]

28 minutes ago, e30ftw said:

Yeah, MS43 DME and correct I do not have a clutch switch. 

p.s sorry for the thread Hijack OP

Don't be sorry, this is all super useful info that will make testing and troubleshooting the completed conversion so much easier, keep it coming!

My 540 is a Japanese import, so will need to work through that at the time, and will defiantly be deleting the "clutch to start" setting.

[e30ftw 410]

I think I may have found how to sort my specific issue (MS43 / M54 / MT with no Clutch Switch in E30)

I've been playing with the TunerPro since yesterday and found this which sounds like it's slowing my Throttle closing, and one of the conditions to not have this interfere is the Clutch being pressed. Since I don't have a clutch switch sensor, it's always going to slow my throttle close. I'm just disabling it now and loading the bin file. I was already playing with other stuff and reset my adaptions, so going to have to go for a bit of a drive to let it relearn things and see how it goes.

Lucky for me it's a nice day

https://www.ms4x.net/index.php?title=Siemens_MS43#Throttle_Request_Correction

Throttle Request Correction

To provide a smoother driving experience the ecu will limit how fast the throttle can close based on the current engine load.

If the clutch is not pressed and the requested throttle setpoint is larger than the value specified in c_tps_req_ltc_min or smaller than the value specified in ip_tps_req_ltc_min_[gear] the throttle setpoint closing rate will be limited.

When the ecu starts limiting the throttle setpoint it will be decremented by the value taken from ip_tps_req_ltc_lgrd_[gear] until the following conditions are met:

• The limitation duration specified in ip_t_tps_req_ltc_max_[gear] has expired.
• The requested throttle setpoint is larger or equal to ip_tps_req_ltc_min_[gear].
• The limited throttle setpoint is smaller than the requested throttle setpoint.
• The clutch is pressed.

If any of those conditions are met then the ecu will use the requested throttle setpoint and will not start limiting the throttle setpoint again until the time specified in c_t_dly_tps_req_ltc(0,85s) has elapsed.

The id_tps_req_ltc_gear_[gearbox] tables controls if the throttle request correction should be active depending on the current gear. To disable the throttle request correction function set the id_tps_req_ltc_gear_[gearbox] tables to zero.

[Vass 830]

Seems like a weird load of hackery for an issue that can be solved properly by just adding a clutch switch. 

[e30ftw 410]

2 hours ago, Vass said:

Seems like a weird load of hackery for an issue that can be solved properly by just adding a clutch switch. 

Not really in my case, I don't need a clutch switch and it's a waste of time retrofitting a switch and the wiring (again, e30). Plus I never actually realised the relationship between having a clutch switch and why it would cause a hang in revs.

Disabling this worked so I now no longer have that annoying rev hang though so I'm happy. 

[Harper 547]

On 5/26/2024 at 11:58 AM, e30ftw said:

I think I may have found how to sort my specific issue (MS43 / M54 / MT with no Clutch Switch in E30)

Sorry, unrelated to the rest of this thread. But after you pointed out those settings I disabled them on my compact. Clutch switch was wired in and working correctly but holy turning off throttle request correction and drivers wish input correction completely fixed my biggest issue with the car since building it. Previously the throttle felt super soggy and lazy, especially after driving the M3. Thanks for suggesting it.

Bizarre that the DME slows the throttle plate opening and closing closing so much by default. Downshifts and throttle tip in felt so sluggish and is night and day better now, I was worried I'd have to start messing with the throttle mapping.

[e30ftw 410]

3 hours ago, Harper said:

Sorry, unrelated to the rest of this thread. But after you pointed out those settings I disabled them on my compact. Clutch switch was wired in and working correctly but holy turning off throttle request correction and drivers wish input correction completely fixed my biggest issue with the car since building it. Previously the throttle felt super soggy and lazy, especially after driving the M3. Thanks for suggesting it.

Bizarre that the DME slows the throttle plate opening and closing closing so much by default. Downshifts and throttle tip in felt so sluggish and is night and day better now, I was worried I'd have to start messing with the throttle mapping.

Nice. Glad it helped someone else out too. I was also looking at disabling the Drivers wish input on mine but require clutch input to disable it. I've since found I can ground the DME clutch input signal so I need to test it out and see what different that makes. Sounds like its worthwhile, hopefully mimmick more of a cable throttle behavior.

[hunter 408]

Watching with interest, I have a 530i I'm tempted to convert...