Fair enough

[*Glenn* 854]

I should really shut up here ....but anyway.....here goes

Honda's, Toyota's & Nissans are too damn reliable....... thats why I don't repair Japanese vehicles

We would be doing oil changes all day

But if you like, and want to drive a refined vehicle, I would choose a BMW over anything European

I enjoy working on them as well, technically, they are more refined, easy to work on and only have major failures due to lack of maintainence (or idiots working on them) or abuse.

[Apex 693]

Honda's rule, and if you think otherwise you aren't a real car enthusiast.

Toyota FTW.

[R90S 2]

So, if I decide to chuck some 20" chromies, airbags and big bore exhaust on my 3.0S, can I still browse here? Even if I can't spel?

:>)

(tongue firmly in cheek)

Nick

[CamB 48]

That thing would be bloody quick FWD, did you drive it every day? Post up you Dyno sheet and show us the amazing power and torque curve! It’s not about maximum torque it’s about where the engine produces it.

I wasn’t trying to have a go at Honda’s, I think they are technically a very good car, I was poking sh*t at the stereo type Honda driver that is giving Honda’s the “gay†image.

Fair enough bagging the stereotype, but BMWs have the same image problem - its a noisy/showy few who create the stereotype.

It was my daily car - about 1,000km/month, almost all around town. (edit) Yes, FWD and lots of power, no FWD not an issue - it had a factory torsen style LSD - and it put the power down very well unless you were a munt.

I've actually sold it (to buy the M3) - It was a '94 EG hatch, Type S Prelude engine (220hp stock) and Prelude (large) front brakes, full coilover suspension with cert and upgraded sway bars. It handled like a go-cart and was faster than most cars I've been in. The M3s quicker, but only once it hits its stride (ie 4k and up). The Civic had a better torque/weight ratio.

Unfortunately I can't find the scan of the dyno graph. It was custom tuned (it had a Link) and the VTEC was set about 4800rpm which is low enough it engaged smoothly (factory engagement is too high, but it "feels" fast). Imagine a torquey 2.2 litre engine making maximum power at 5500rpm which clicked over to a race engine making power from 5000-7500rpm. It feels like the double VANOS on the M3 - power everywhere.

Actually I've hunted around and found it. Dyno shows:

- 35kW at 2000rpm

- 55kW at 3000rpm

- 75kW at 4000rpm

- 100kW at 5000rpm (post VTEC)

- 125kW at 6000rpm

- 139kW at 6900rpm

Its basically a straight line from 2000-7000rpm - it doesn't tail off until after 6,000rpm, all in a car weighing about 1050kg.

Reading the graph, torque is between 70 and 80kg/m from 2,000-5,000rpm, and 80kg-90kg/m from 5000-7000rpm (ie VTEC).

Edited April 3, 2008 by CamB

[Apex 693]

Fair enough bagging the stereotype, but BMWs have the same image problem - its a noisy/showy few who create the stereotype.

It was my daily car - about 1,000km/month, almost all around town. (edit) Yes, FWD and lots of power, no FWD not an issue - it had a factory torsen style LSD - and it put the power down very well unless you were a munt.

I've actually sold it (to buy the M3) - It was a '94 EG hatch, Type S Prelude engine (220hp stock) and Prelude (large) front brakes, full coilover suspension with cert and upgraded sway bars. It handled like a go-cart and was faster than most cars I've been in. The M3s quicker, but only once it hits its stride (ie 4k and up). The Civic had a better torque/weight ratio.

Unfortunately I can't find the scan of the dyno graph. It was custom tuned (it had a Link) and the VTEC was set about 4800rpm which is low enough it engaged smoothly (factory engagement is too high, but it "feels" fast). Imagine a torquey 2.2 litre engine making maximum power at 5500rpm which clicked over to a race engine making power from 5000-7500rpm. It feels like the double VANOS on the M3 - power everywhere.

Actually I've hunted around and found it. Dyno shows:

- 35kW at 2000rpm

- 55kW at 3000rpm

- 75kW at 4000rpm

- 100kW at 5000rpm (post VTEC)

- 125kW at 6000rpm

- 139kW at 6900rpm

Its basically a straight line from 2000-7000rpm - it doesn't tail off until after 6,000rpm, all in a car weighing about 1050kg.

Reading the graph, torque is between 70 and 80kg/m from 2,000-5,000rpm, and 80kg-90kg/m from 5000-7000rpm (ie VTEC).

Very nice, thats good power for a N/A 2.2. There was a very fast 2.2 powered Civic at the last track day I attended, it was an older generation than yours and was dark blue..had it not been raining im sure it would have posted top 5 lap times.

I like the Type-S Prelude they were/are a quite achiever.. a relative bargain bang for your buck wise.

Sorry no more Honda talk, I promise.

[JiB 0]

....Looks like I opened a can of worms...

I was only trying to say that all cars have merits, and the fanboy/chromey culture is apparent in all marques. So I thought it unfair that Honda's get all the blame as most of the Honda enthusiasts I have met are the opposite of the stereotype and genuinely passionate about motorsport!

We all have our opinions, and we are definitely entitled to them. But as with all opinions we I reckon we should see them as opinions. They may not be the only one out there and they may be based on inaccurate information.

Anyway...moving on

EDIT: Excuse my abysmal grammar.

Edited April 3, 2008 by JiB

[CamB 48]

Ironically, the NZHondas forum is at least as, if not more, critical than BimmerSport of:

- chrome wheels

- clear tail lights

- speeding on the street.

[togate 0]

^^ yeah nzhonda guys are quite law abiding, and most are not ricey. hondas can be modified tastefully. you got to understand some people cant afford BMW's and the maintenance involved. i have personally owned a honda, and being a student it was the most practical car. as daily drivers they are perfect. with the right setup, they can be very fun on the track too.

bang for buck.

Edited April 3, 2008 by togate

[nath 129]

glad to see it all..bring back the old school. we need more non-BMW owners!

oh hell yes.

or was that a joke?

haha

[cainchapman 0]

I personally think Honda's are awesome. And I own one.

Anyone who can design the RA166E (used in the MP4/4) 1.5l turbo developing over 1000hp in race trim. Winning 15 of 16 races. And Ayrton Senna drove them!

[Gus 5]

^^ was no joke...I like a helluva lot of other cars as much as BMWs - Hondas seemed to have cropped up and they are brilliant cars, not everyones cup of tea but they are fast, light, cheap etc...cant go wrong.

brings more interesting people into the mix

[Yuen 16]

Yeah, NZHondas is a good forum, helpful people and I don't see much of the so called Honda stereotype over there. Sure we probably see more riced out Hondas driven by teenagers more but it's probably because they are a little more affordable to buy and run, and there are more Hondas in NZ than BMWs. They're cheap to run and maintain, definitely practical.

[kerrynzl 3]

^^ was no joke...I like a helluva lot of other cars as much as BMWs - Hondas seemed to have cropped up and they are brilliant cars, not everyones cup of tea but they are fast, light, cheap etc...cant go wrong.

brings more interesting people into the mix

Admit it Gus, you only like jappa's because you can tune 'em with your "Ball Peen" Dyno

Hey Ollie!, I got a bit of a moral dillema here [ apart from the fact I have no morals ]

When I get sh*tfaced,

I tend to slurr these monosyllable grunts that sound like I am speaking TXT.

Wud tht gt me bnnd frm bmmrsprt frm's ?

So If you cant speak or read TXT, you probably wonder what the hell I'm saying

[ that is if it is the same langwidge, or lnguge or lingo or language! whatever?]

[OLLIE 26]

Admit it Gus, you only like jappa's because you can tune 'em with your "Ball Peen" Dyno

Hey Ollie!, I got a bit of a moral dillema here [ apart from the fact I have no morals ]

When I get sh*tfaced,

I tend to slurr these monosyllable grunts that sound like I am speaking TXT.

Wud tht gt me bnnd frm bmmrsprt frm's ?

So If you cant speak or read TXT, you probably wonder what the hell I'm saying

[ that is if it is the same langwidge, or lnguge or lingo or language! whatever?]

don't care - find Will - bring him back

[kerrynzl 3]

don't care - find Will - bring him back

Dead or Alive? [ or some sort of innebriated state of suspended animation ? ]

Hey Will, if you are out there in Bimmerland ? Me and Jim [ Beam ] are gonna find ya!

[Apex 693]

It’s not what were drinking its how were drinking

[Top Secret 2]

Normally I keep out of threads like this, as I usually think "to each their own", but things need explaining.

What sort of car enthusiast are you if you can't appreciate something for what it can do? Being one-eyed and cynical to something that just happens to not have a BMW badge on it is just stupid if you ask me.

I've owned 4 cars now. 2 Subarus, 1 Honda, and 1 BMW. I bought the Honda directly after the BMW. E36 325i I had. It had problems getting up hills because of the bloody auto and shocking low down torque, so you had to put your foot down everywhere to get anywhere, so goodbye fuel. Then, stepping into the Honda I was amazed! 1.8 N/A "torqueless" engine, yet I can pull 50kmh in 5th gear and get up hills without even trying.

Maybe there was a lesson there? Light weight + good gear ratios + well designed engine that can take 8000rpm all day every day without using any fuel at all, and be perfectly daily usable. Quicker than the sum of its parts.

Don't get me wrong guys, I'm part of the anti-chromes/tail lights/15yo gf/sacked bro group, as they turn what is a nimble reliable car into something that looks like sh*t. Remember, 318s can't escape from this either. How many vaults and shitty clear tail lights with ridiculous lowering? If anything, it's worse because it's supposed to be a 'classy' euro.

I just want someone with a decent Honda to take one of you guys for a spin. Something like this which is essentially standard. Just headers, intake, exhaust, and maybe a K pro. K20 EG

Fair enough, if you want class, a Honda isn't the way to go. But there's needless bagging going around, most of which they don't deserve.

/takes off Honda hat

[M3 Cab 0]

Honda's are crap buy a holden

[cainchapman 0]

Honda's are crap buy a holden

Doug, you're a comedian!

[Greg111 13]

O.k fair comment, my mate use to own a 2.0l integra that was bloody quick...for a 2.0l that is and what i was saying before they are (semi) o.k but it's those idiots that ruin them as with the 318s etc etc. But getting back to BMWs, it actually hurts me to see BMWs being absolutly abused by big ugly arse wheels, big ugly arse muffler, god forsaken ugly clear tail lights, these people just have know idea what so ever!!!!!!

If they feel the need to do this then by a jappa-(not to offend any one here) Keep the peace

[JiB 0]

I just want someone with a decent Honda to take one of you guys for a spin. Something like this which is essentially standard. Just headers, intake, exhaust, and maybe a K pro. K20 EG

I wouldn't say that setup would be "just" standard. A friend's Japanese Spec DC5R headers (TODA) + intake (GruppeM) + exhuast (BYS) + kpro (2000cc Integra Type R) managed circa 220whp with that setup! Mine was standard Japanese Spec (220bhp) and the difference in power was immense! His power band was solid from 4000rpm all the way the redline (8,500 rpm).

So in my opinion that wouldn't really be a fair, more like comparing a turbo'd M20 or something. (yes the poor gains on BMWs from bolt-on modification shocked me initially )

O.k fair comment, my mate use to own a 2.0l integra that was bloody quick...for a 2.0l that is and what i was saying before they are (semi) o.k but it's those idiots that ruin them as with the 318s etc etc. But getting back to BMWs, it actually hurts me to see BMWs being absolutly abused by big ugly arse wheels, big ugly arse muffler, god forsaken ugly clear tail lights, these people just have know idea what so ever!!!!!!

If they feel the need to do this then by a jappa-(not to offend any one here) Keep the peace

What's the difference between Jappa's and German cars? Or British for that matter?

Well, it hurts me to see Type R's with big wheels and flashy bits. Contrary to popular belief they are race bred and have history!

EDIT:

1.8L Integra, Porsche, BMW M3 Endurance....pretty funny ending

Edited April 6, 2008 by JiB

[Jeddy 0]

1.8L Integra, Porsche, BMW M3 Endurance....pretty funny ending

lmao almost cracked my ribs i was laughing so hard

[Yuen 16]

Hahhahaa... poor BMW

[wild_weston 0]

Coming from england it is quite interesting to see that Hondas have such a boy racer reputation, in NZ. In the UK hondas (and rovers by default) have an old person image of slow drivers out on a sunday afternoon.

I actually like hondas and owned an 87 prelude (complete with foam spolier). It was a great luxury/sporty car for the money (remember that everyone has to have insurance in the uk).

My girlfriend has a beat up 95 civic LX. It is a sherman tank, it will never stop or break down no matter what. We both love it but recognise it as the car to do the dirty jobs that we don't want the beemer doing.

BMWs still have the same reputation from the 80s - the yuppy car. First chance I got to own one in NZ i took it. I never looked at a beemer in the UK due to the ridiculous amount of insurance (nealry as mach as the car for old ones). I'm now on my third straight beemer in NZ.

The main differnce for me is the quality of the car that I drive. Sure my car is 8 years old but when I park it next to that 2008 model other car I still know that it holds it own in equipment, engineering and prestige (and yes there is definately a snob factor to owning a beemer otherwise we'd all own subaru WRXs for the money).

Anyway, just want to say that hondas are great, if you want a honda. BMWs are great if you want to own a Beemer. We've got both and are well happy with them.

The boy racers just pick up anything with a racing breed (that they can initially afford) and spend a ridiculous amount of money making a crap car into a really crap car (superfluous upgrades whether a beemer or a honda) when they could afford a decent car if they didn't.

I'm just suprised that you guys don't dislike the subarus as much as the hondas as they are about the cheapest and nastiest things on the road.

Cheers

p.s. my best ever car was an 89 Daihatsu Charade GTTI. 1 lirte with a turbo stuck on it - it was like driving a go-kart, but I wouldn't buy one over my current beemer.

[BMW POWER 2]

Wow, all this kerfuffle was going on, while in Dunedin it was cold and raining, and I was attending school 5 days a week.

Sure missed out

Edited April 6, 2008 by BMW Power