Guest FrantiC Report post Posted July 31, 2009 So everything was Mint, Everything is 100% complete basically. Wastegate On. Need a smaller spring though. Cos guess what..... The engine didn't like 12psi, at all. R.I.P Headgasket! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
drifty325i 0 Report post Posted July 31, 2009 Oh bugger Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CamB 48 Report post Posted July 31, 2009 Stink! You should look into the timing as well. 12psi is not THAT high. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
*Glenn* 854 Report post Posted July 31, 2009 No offence intended ... but shouldnt you change the thread title Maybe like.... DIY E30 M20 Turbo stroker disasters I must say though...I admire your pursiverance with this (spelling of the big word) Good luck with the project as well... I'm figuring you'll need some Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest FrantiC Report post Posted July 31, 2009 I think it may have been more, The hole in the rear of the turbo for the wastegate is like 20mm, So it probably has some mean boost creep going on. Was hitting 12psi fine until I did it in 4th gear, maybe all the extra load? Kept it going for a while and then it all of a sudden bogged down and I looked behind and all this white smoke was pouring out the exhaust... I was just like DOH! I bought an 8psi spring, maybe I should wait until I get that lol, I told myself I would not go higher than 8-10psi until I had a proper tune.. Taking the head of atm and I already see water in the head. Eeek. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest FrantiC Report post Posted July 31, 2009 No offence intended ... but shouldnt you change the thread title Maybe like.... DIY E30 M20 Turbo stroker disasters I must say though...I admire your pursiverance with this (spelling of the big word) Good luck with the project as well... I'm figuring you'll need some Oooo Harsh. Heh, Well this is my first time taking on such a big project and I don't really care what people think I did it all myself so hey there is abit of pride in doing most of my car all by myself.. Even if it isn't 100% problem free, I am learning from my mistakes and I guess I am getting there... .. My bad If I don't meet your experienced standards (I am only 18...), But what I have done / Learned at this stage from my car is more than alot can say........ Over and out..! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
*Glenn* 854 Report post Posted July 31, 2009 Youve taken what I said the wrong way.. I admire what youve tried to do... however, you have had a lot of disasters getting there..I'm sorry if your offended.... I didn't intend it to be taken that way Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mike 1 Report post Posted July 31, 2009 Don't worry about it, I had so much stuff go wrong on my M10 Turbo. Was my first project that big too, just learnt most of it by doing or reading. Mistakes cost a bit of $$ but I learnt heaps. Hopefully the next project I do I'll be able to use what I learnt. Stick with it if you can Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest FrantiC Report post Posted July 31, 2009 Yeah I know what you mean, If you didn't have the DIY in there, wouldn't have taken it in the wrong way cos it does kinda sound harsh lol. But yeah have had alot of disasters in this but oh well... Atleast the starter magically fixed itself when I reinstalled the gearbox etc. Everything was cert ready basically... New headgasket tomorrow anyways. The old one is ruined, cracks between oil passages and cylinder rings and #6, #4 were both blown into water passages, all the other rings have been pushed outwards it looks kinda cool cos they are oval haha. I should have O-ringed the head, wouldn't have had that problem! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
*Glenn* 854 Report post Posted July 31, 2009 Harden up lad.. were all here to try and help DIY = Dedicated in Italian= (I lie) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest FrantiC Report post Posted July 31, 2009 Yep I get that. I'm not cut up or anything lol, Just had an up down kinda day. Anyways, lesson here is 8psi MAX until I upgrade to an MLS. 9.6:1CR probably not the most boost friendliest option. Only had the 12psi spring in there cos that is all I had and I needed a spring in there to drive .. It's insane either way, I would be happy rocking 8psi all day if it were reliable. The low end power is mean, because of the low end torque and once that turbo spools it PUUUULLS. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
topcat 11 Report post Posted July 31, 2009 Yep I get that. I'm not cut up or anything lol, Just had an up down kinda day. Anyways, lesson here is 8psi MAX until I upgrade to an MLS. 9.6:1CR probably not the most boost friendliest option. Only had the 12psi spring in there cos that is all I had and I needed a spring in there to drive .. It's insane either way, I would be happy rocking 8psi all day if it were reliable. The low end power is mean, because of the low end torque and once that turbo spools it PUUUULLS. Did you install studs? if you did,it should have handled.then again bolts are also pretty good. the e28 project had a 9.0-1 CR and ran 15lbs boost-with bolts(used),no dramas I'd be comfortable with 10-12psi at 9.6CR. (where im headed) if everything is optimal,MSL,studs and both faces have been machined etc,i'd (carefully) tune it up to 14psi could be realized.it wouldnt be the first 10-1 with 15lb's of boost motor on the track/streets either way,it sucks eggs.m Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CamB 48 Report post Posted July 31, 2009 C/r is a bit high - its unlikely the ignition map you got is right for that much static comp? You did use ARPs right? You shouldn't NEED o-rings (based on what I've read) if your tuning is good. A couple of things to think about: - you need to check for boost creep - if it creeps with a 12 psi spring it will probably do it with an 8psi one too. The problem is too small a wastegate. - you need to get the timing and fuel right. Pay for a dyno - its cheaper than lots of headgaskets - full boost in 4th? 2 days into your new licence? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Boost Junky 1 Report post Posted July 31, 2009 (edited) That sucks dude but hey atleast you know what to expect next time aye John. To be honnest Cam shoudlnt a 38mm should be more than plenty? A 38mm wastegate shuld support my gt3540 easily let alone a t3/t4 well so im told.. i think that John could be correct here with the flow that his gate has with the small hole of the back of the exhaust housing. I used to run a 38mm on my T3/T4 on my old car with no creep, I think its more to do with the flow and how the wastegate is setup. And I definitely agree with Cam as far as the tuning goes. Tuning comes with experience and experience only its not something you can just learn from the books. All good with installing this other dudes map he sent with him having a similar setup. No two cars are the same and theres bound to be a few variations with fueling and flow alone which will need to be checked over now with that map running your system. I agree Glenn that Johns perseverance is more than enough and the amount of times you have just about been ready to give up John I commend you on that. But I dont think it has been a disaster.. more a learning curve for you and I dont think it helps that you have been in such a rush to get it all up and running before you got your license back. I admire your confidence in going all out to achieve such a project as this. Very much done the same thing when I was 18 with my Integra, map sent over the internet and wrote it to my own eprom chip installed it in a factory ecu etc... also the same turbo and wastegate I used and yes I learned a few important things from the experience and probably have alot more to learn from my current project but thats what its all about right? So too you John I say, what an acheivement so far! Edited July 31, 2009 by Boost Junky Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest FrantiC Report post Posted July 31, 2009 its allgood oi night out on the booze sorted lol got a mate who knows of a dyno place local reckons he wil do me a cheaopy hahah it's mint the tune on there is alright it bogs abit changing from 1st to second i should probably nana it abit to wear everything in aye oh well i will learn lol i got a new headgasket today mate through repco got me a new one for 53$ so all is good be back up and running tomorrow but i need that 8psi spring (atleast if it creeps i know the motor can handle around 10psi, my gues uis that it went over 12psi) bwefauwese after all the hole is 20mm for the watstegate so it';s a restricition lol sorry if i dont akme sense just comeing home from drinking lol blehhhh. atleast everyoene whos seen it so far says it sexy LOL no turbo bmws around here except for one with a roartary in it BOOOOOOO! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Boost Junky 1 Report post Posted July 31, 2009 Hahahaha nice one John boozy azz I came home early from town rofl! Work in the morning so came off the beers early Hit that dyno g and you will be safe azzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest FrantiC Report post Posted July 31, 2009 heaps of saftey first bro lol gotts have it sorted out before tues so i can get a cert for it then yusss VRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR PSSH Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest FrantiC Report post Posted July 31, 2009 C/r is a bit high - its unlikely the ignition map you got is right for that much static comp? You did use ARPs right? You shouldn't NEED o-rings (based on what I've read) if your tuning is good. A couple of things to think about: - you need to check for boost creep - if it creeps with a 12 psi spring it will probably do it with an 8psi one too. The problem is too small a wastegate. - you need to get the timing and fuel right. Pay for a dyno - its cheaper than lots of headgaskets - full boost in 4th? 2 days into your new licence? Boost creep in an 8psi spting wouldnt be so bad IMO, it seems to handle 10psi fine.. Yeah dyno will be realised i hope, would be my best investemmtn anywasys. got licence on monday, drove it monday lightly, new headgasket and head rebuilt, idled it for ages drive it around softly and thats when the clutch release rod got jammed, pulled gearbox fixed strarer etc. fixed it today, drove lightly all day then decided to take it out on the 100kmh roads and yeah it pulls like a HOYL HELLL then yeah too much boost obviously not the best tune isnt a good idea. i thnik it's good til 8psi for now anyuways lol Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CamB 48 Report post Posted July 31, 2009 Oh yeah - a 38mm wastegate should be plenty, but the 20mm hole may be effectively reducing the flow to it causing the creep. Here's a couple more things to think about: - boost creep happens coz the wastegate can't vent enough exhaust. Whether the spring is 8psi or 12 psi, you will creep to the same total psi, since the problem is a lack of flow. The problem is not when the wastegate opens (ie the psi rating of the spring). the lower the psi you want to use, then better the wastegate setup has to flow - a bigger turbo can have less problem with boost creep, in particular a bigger turbine (as it needs more exhaust to work, and therefore less use of the wastegate) I think this is quite a good article about wastegates: http://www.034motorsport.com/article_info....c147nrprfsg3jf4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest FrantiC Report post Posted July 31, 2009 Yeah there isn't much room for making the hole on the turbo any bigger either. I may end up using that one just for warrants, and put another wategate on the underside of the manifold for better boost control with a 38mm hole right in the manifold before the flange, that way I can run a screamer too. And lol at my posts last night.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest FrantiC Report post Posted August 2, 2009 (edited) New headgaskets in now. Just put it all back together this morning.. What I found: There were a couple exhaust gaskets ( the single piece steel plated on one side type ones) were around the wrong way. If you get what I mean on the m20, how if it's upside down, it pretty much blocks half of the outlet. I found that out by looking at the exhaust manifold and saw half black circles I was like wtf then figured out they must have been upside down, when I put the gasket against the manifold. So even more suspect is that it was like that on the cylinders which blew the most of the headgasket. Number 1 and 2 were completely normal (the rings on the headgasket). 4 and 6 were the worst (and had upside down gaskets). I think the Actual problem would have been extremely poor exhaust flow and it more than likely would have raised the compression up from back pressure causing the gasket to move. Would also exlplain my more turbo lag after I added the gaskets to the exhaust and turbo, than before when it had none. So yeah, I am using the 1 piece gasket that came with the manifold this time. Only problem is it won't start... No rpm signal. So going to have to move the pc to the garage see what I can do on MS.. P.S first on the list will be a video, before I break it again So hopefuly within the next couple hours hehe.. Edited August 2, 2009 by FrantiC Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest FrantiC Report post Posted August 3, 2009 Alright well after heaps of fussing around, I figured after hooking up the pc to MS and the rev gauge not working at all that crank sensor was at fault.. since all I did was unplug TPS, Crank sensor and injector loom when I swapped the head.. Surely enough, pulled the crank sensor and the black wire has broken out of the sensor right where it goes in. Bugger! Hopefully Ray will be able to overnight me one so I can get it to the LVV cert tomorrow!!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DRTDVL 0 Report post Posted August 3, 2009 can't you rig something up for the day? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest FrantiC Report post Posted August 3, 2009 (edited) can't you rig something up for the day? I tried to, The wire had broken right out of the inside of the crank sensor, I broke the end open and there was no wire exposed to solder to, but abit of stabing i got the smallest amount of wire to stick out dobbed some solder on it after cleaning it to make sure it stuck on, then soldered the wire to it. I don't know if it has joined or not I just put it back in now need to charge the battery up though, killed it before trying to start lol. It's temporary at best, as it's flimsy as.. I will see shortly I guess. *edit* nope it doesn't work..... Edited August 3, 2009 by FrantiC Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CamB 48 Report post Posted August 3, 2009 Its definitely possible that exhaust reversion / excess backpressure meant you were getting a dirty charge in those cylinders, which is more prone to detonation. Even still, make sure you get the tune professionally checked. It's not worth assuming the problem was entirely due to the gaskets. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
