What makes a 'classic' car, to you?

[Phil-540i 166]

Hi there. I'm one of 'those' I suppose - I'm a guy that likes cars, & motorbikes, right from being a kid!! Certain things appeal to me, other things don't - fairly simple really, but where's 'that line' - what makes something 'classic' to you?? Is it a brand, is it a age, is it aspirations of ownership as a kid, is it a sound, or is it simple in that it can be fixed with a tool-box rather than a lap-top?? Is it a line between plastic, & steel maybe?? Is it how hard it goes in a straight line, or that poetry in motion through the twisty bits?? Designed in a wind tunnel, or not?? The fold marks of a panel, or the glint of chrome?? Does it maybe need a carb & extractors, rather than EFI and cats..? Is it just old school koool with a bit of class, or there's lots of plastic coupled with electric glass......??

If its your own 'classic' car, is it related to the amount of your blood & sweat that's been spilt in order for its wheels to turn again - that adage of it being 'built' rather than 'brought'?? A vehicle that was made, created, given life by a human, rather than put together by machines & robots?? Is it something you can see, feel, or taste, or hear that's the difference between lighting up your eyes, or not?? Whats the difference say, between our sons now wanting 1982 Toyota's, rather than 2012's.....?? (Don't flame the newbie - its an example!!)

Why does he ask this you may say?? Maybe its just pondering by a guy that's had a few birthdays - maybe he's sat in a few sheds 'just looking' at various cars & bikes while grinning - Maybe its also because of watching this earlier -

http://www.bimmersport.co.nz/forums/index....showtopic=45422

In say, 20 years time, will us, or our children be referring to this new 4 series much the same as us ourselves are now calling E30 type cars as 'classics'. Personally, I very much doubt it. Have we desensitised and sterilised ourselves so much from the driving experience in the modern vehicles, that bar a few, most are destined to maybe be best remembered for being 'safe', full of neat technology, economic, & recyclable. What's your opinion?? I'm interested in the 'why' too, & what do you see as 'classic', to you, these days...

From where I'm sitting, I think this is all subjective personal opinion type stuff, so there's no wrong or right answers - its just to make you think a bit too. (What I reckon is classic, can be seen by my mate as fit for filling a hole in a hedge......)

For me, there's lots of 1960's & 1970's American & Australian 'muscle' cars that are classic. Ford Escorts. Cortina GT's. Audi Quattro SWB. Mitsubishi Starion. Rover SDI. Land Rover Series 1. Toyota Landcruiser - 40, 55 & 80 series. AE 86 & various other early Toyota cars. Datsun 1600, & a multitude of other various models fit the criteria for 'me', & yes, includes BMW's like my own one.

The only thing I can think of off the top of my head that they all have in common, is they start with a key, rather than a button......!!!

What does it for you?? Where's the soul?? Where's the passion?? What makes you grin & go "Mate, that's a classic"......and what are we voting with - is it our heart, or..........is it our head...............

Is it vintage?? Is it classic?? Is it modern?? Is it exotic?? Is it muscle / performance?? Or is it yet just another white / silver 'beige' fridge on wheels we are watching drive by..........

(Written by an enthusiast, for other like-minded individuals..........) If mods don't delete this, I might even modify it a bit...

Edited August 14, 2013 by Blue-540i

[richard 384]

Nice write up , i read the classic car mag from England from time to time just to see what's around . At the moment theres a 1962 mini for 24000 pound !!!! go figure. Sometimes classic's are determined by how ugly they are like the "Ford Edsel" or the De Lorean to advanced for most and somtimes its the number made and if they last the test of time .

Here's some of my picks. Nissan skyline early model ,BMW 840's in original form .

Edited August 13, 2013 by rich

[Allanw 1051]

I don't have any hard and fast rules to what is a classic for me. It doesn't have to be all that old, to be fair... maybe that's related to me being in my 30's (Early thirties... only just!)

Dad has a 1990 325i SE, which I think fits the bill - it was a "significant" model of car - the E30 is what really put BMW on the map, in NZ at least. They just look "right" and do so many things so well.

I've also had a Suzuki Cappuccino - One of the best modern-ish classics - very quick for their size, but handles like a go cart, and ALL the feedback in the world. Proper front engine, rear drive. Can be a real handfull in the wet... like the E30 :-)

I've also got a 1972 VW Beetle. Obviously a classic but very vegemite - you either love 'm, or hate 'em!

Not classic... I think it's WELL past that, but we have a 1929 Ford Model A too. Though technically a Vintage, I think you could argue it had classic status for a very long time, and has simply surpassed that title. While not as many were produced as the earlier Model T, they still brought motoring to the masses!

I think "classic" is a very individual thing, but it's hard to think of modern cars ever becoming "classics", unless they are something really special.

[Apex 693]

Fair question.

Personally I am not a fan of older cars and prefer brand new or as near to new as possible, but I can appreciate some cars have meaning to some people, so I guess "classic" is more an emotion towards and object rather than age in itself, some cars become instant classics.

As for a modern crop, anything exotic and sporty will be a classic, Porsche, Aston, Ferrari, Lotus, Jaguar etc, in terms of modern economy cars I think the new GT86 will be a future classic, as will high end Mini's, possibly the Mazda MX5, the BMW 1M will be a classic as will any M car in its own way, can thing of a lot TBH.

There are two cars I would like in my shed that I deem usable classics, something that you can thrash and enjoy that is genuinely fun to drive, the BMW M3 or M325i and the Peugeot 205 GTI.

[Hartage 0]

Really interesting thread, what makes a classic to anyone can be based on what was about while very young or growing up.

I always liked the MK2 jaguar shape and was set out to buy one, never quite made the Jaguar, ended up with a Daimler version as at the time I was buying it in about 1990 the Jaguar, and if you were getting one it had to be a 3.8, was so over priced it just did not make my budget. So I bought the Daimler V8, still have it now.

As time and money allowed we increased to several classics, the latest is a low mileage MK1 Ford Cortina that is the car lots of our family's would have had.

A few to add to the list of classics, Datsun 1200 coupe, had 1 years ago, and the Toyota corolla GT coupe

[lord_jagganath 421]

Classics. Aside from the usual postwar English cars? Most of them can be deemed classics ... even the horrible Morris Marina, because one way or another they have intrinsic value. Classics are what they are because of the emotion they stir up.

I do think the E34 will become a classic. from the lowly 518i to the might 540iS. The E36 may not, because it is frankly, a pig next to the E30, but I will be glad to be proven wrong.

Even the Volvo 24x(especially the 245) will become a classic, heck it is one now. I'd love to wheel around in a 242GT but I'm afraid they are such stupid money now... nothing like hurtling a brick through an apex.

[JoKer 58]

"hot rods" and their definition will never change, "old school" might, and "classics" will always be 70-80's to me etc OR cars you would really have liked to own that are 20+ years old

[Cab 148]

To me a classic is any car which is in pristine condition, pre 90's and European, which is also hard to get your hands on.

Also any car that increases in value as it gets older.

[liyi_92 37]

The two off the top of my head in "my" classic car opinion are R32 GTR and Toyota Supra MKIV Twin turbo.

[Phil-540i 166]

Hi guys - cheers for the feedback. I've just had a re-read of it myself - not a bad effort probably for that time of night, haha!!

[nath 129]

Good post.

I was going to say that classic will forever stay in the pre mid-90s realm. I may be wrong though. It may just be that those which we call classic will eventually gain another name, and the term classic wll come forward another generation. The 60s/ 70s sports BMW for instance while raw and classic now, was once a sublime, fast drive- one of the best on the road. Today's BMW makes the same comparison with say, a Mazda. The goalposts have just moved.

So for any given time period, cars' range of comparable attributes have not changed.

However may I suggest that the buyer has changed. Cars are more of an accessory today than they have ever been, in a world where media has told us how heavily to rely on looks. Any jerkoff with enough credit history can go and tick up an RS4 or similar and effectively purchase a look, an ego, and a lifestyle all in one package which he will toss away in 3 years to upgrade to whatever Kanye is driving this time.

With this practice bringing ever more top spec models to our roads and desensitising us, will we simply care less about this and subsequent generations of cars?

Perhaps not, but worth a thought.

[Ace Of Spades 51]

To me, I feel i'm to young to appreciate a proper classic car... but with all honesty I would rather buy an old car (pre 90's) with 200tho kms that needs a bit of work than buy a brand new car for the same kind of money.

I feel that the 'real driving experience has been lost' with these new car's and all there gadgets and safety features.

.... these guys know the definition of a 'classic' / Drivers car but also beauty and craftsmanship..

And the all time classic's for me would be these,

Jaguar E type,

Aston Martin DB5,

Bmw e9 3.0 Csl

Edited August 14, 2013 by Ace of Spades

[Phil-540i 166]

Hey there Ace -Cheers for that, big-time!! That you-tube link - just perfect for in here, that's exactly what I'm meaning.....that bit when you just 'look at it & grin'...........

In terms of what you say "'real driving experience has been lost' with these new car and all there gadgets and safety features" - I agree, & I think its a problem as such that's behind some of the crashes that are occurring on our roads with modern vehicles, (but that's another subject for another time......)

[elmarco 56]

What makes a classic?

The "turn key & pray it starts approach" to electrics & Jesus handles that are more for just show when you overestimate the sweet braking performance of 1968 trying to pull up 3 tonnes of steel.

[allan 295]

From Wikipedia "The word classic means something that is a perfect example of a particular style, something of lasting worth or with a timeless quality. The word can be an adjective (a classic car) or a noun (a classic of English literature). It denotes a particular quality in art, architecture, literature and other cultural artifacts. In commerce, products are named 'classic' to denote a long standing popular version or model, to distinguish it from a newer variety. Classic is used to describe many major, long-standing sporting events. Colloquially, an everyday occurrence (e.g. a joke or mishap) may be described as 'an absolute classic'."

Somebodies idea of what it takes to be classic

http://www.autoblog.com/2005/06/29/what-makes-a-classic-car/

The yanks take of a classic

http://www.roaring-20s.org/main/classic_cars.htm

And so it goes on for me it will be the cars of the era I grow up in and can remember Mustang 68, 57 Cheve, Holden Monaro the first one, Ford escort, sierra cosworth, 3ltr capri and others common enough cars sure but then you have the Jags, Astins, BMW 328/327, 504, Porsche 911 it is in the eyes of the beholder.

[Phil-540i 166]

As per Sam's link, this deserves to be here too IMHO........

Usually every-ones got a story - here's another neat one for early M5 fans.......

Enjoy........I did!

Hmm, & then I found this for early M3 fans - this E30 makes a sound that goes right down the spine.......

Edited August 21, 2013 by Blue-540i

[kingkarl 136]

- almost every ferrari/lambo and every 911 ever made. New or old.

- 60s and 70s american muscle cars

- lancias stratos, delta integrale

- assorted alfas & fiats (any model from these two brands falls into either the total dogshit or instant classic box)

- BMWs including e30 m3, e9, e28 m5, e24,

- Almost every 1960s mercedes

- ae86, r32, rx7, rx3/4, evo 2, nissan 240z

- mk1 golf

- aston db4, jag e type

- original mini

- audi quattro

e: for those who haven't seen it, this is by far my favourite youtube channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/PetroliciousCo/videos

Edited August 22, 2013 by kingkarl

[_ethrty-Andy_ 2122]

e: for those who haven't seen it, this is by far my favourite youtube channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/PetroliciousCo/videos

yup its good, i have been watching some of them the last few nights, actually one on a 911 just before seeing this post!

[RustyItalian 11]

- assorted alfas

Alfasud yes, Arna NO!!!

[Phil-540i 166]

What makes a a classic?

Something with a bit of character, style and preferably innovative for its time.

Just being old or rare isn't enough:

A triumph herald is neither a triumph of engineering nor styling and not innovative for its time, like most old english cars including morris marinas, they are just shitters.

The reason they are rare is they were too far down the evolutionary chain to start with and were just short of being stillborn before slipping into extenction. Jags just scrape in, American muscle cars are just marketing driven crap cars poorly conceived and executed.

Real classics:

Alfa 105

Alfa 116/119 ( Alfetta GTV)

The orginal alfetta racing car (type 159)

BMW 328 ( the original BMW sports car)

BMW 3.0CSi

BMW M3 - any of them

Bugatti Type 35

Citroen light 15

Citroen - 2CV

To name a few

I'm sooooooooo cracking up @ this - nicely put!! I agree - Marina / Triumph / Rover / MG / Austin - were shitters when new, & those that aren't yet parked in a landfill, still are...........

[Allanw 1051]

Real classics:

Alfa 105

Alfa 116/119 ( Alfetta GTV)

The orginal alfetta racing car (type 159)

BMW 328 ( the original BMW sports car)

BMW 3.0CSi

BMW M3 - any of them

Bugatti Type 35

Citroen light 15

Citroen - 2CV

To name a few

So... that's A, B and C, can't you be bothered with the rest of the alphabet?