m50 manifold on 328i

[aw-krazy 45]

Looking for some help on how to install an m50 manifold on a 328i parts needed etc...., either that or Is there any one who would like to do the m50 mani swap?

;D

[aw-krazy 45]

From what I have been told does reduce low end torque from 0 till around 2500rpm but after that the gains are quite noticable ive been in a 328i with m50 manifold and I was actually amazed with the pull after 2500rpm

[Allanw 1071]

Sometimes, when you take away the low end, the top feels much more powerful, because the difference is more apparent. A 0-100 time may feel faster, but might BE slower.

I'm not familiar with the actual swap, but have heard mixed reports.

[aw-krazy 45]

There's been a few dyno reports with an overall increase in hp. Id just really like to test it out, got nothing to loose I guess? Still have original m52 manifold so easily reversible

[_ethrty-Andy_ 2132]

Saw topic title.

Knew Ron would have a field day.

Was not disappointed.

Alex, most of the threads you read that say they are better are from American websites where their cars are different to ours, so doesnt translate, they have different cams, DME maps, even their grades of fuel are different, there is a lot of variables around this as with any mod. Listen to Ron, he has the definitive answer. If you are building a racecar with other mods and/or a turbo etc, then do the swap. if its a road car and its your first step, forget it.

Edited October 9, 2013 by _Ethrty-Andy_

[jom 98]

I still think it works with the auto box, as it matches peak power to the gearchange point...

[jom 98]

There is no substitute for actual experience.

Someone once argued with me on usenet about the British GP in 1976 (made famous but glossed over in "Rush"). He argued that he had never seen what I was describing about it written down anywhere. I said that I was there, and witnessed it. Apparently that wasn't good enough.

The internet is not necessarily an improvement....

[e30ftw 410]

Saw topic title.

Knew Ron would have a field day.

Was not disappointed.

Alex, most of the threads you read that say they are better are from American websites where their cars are different to ours, so doesnt translate, they have different cams, DME maps, even their grades of fuel are different, there is a lot of variables around this as with any mod. Listen to Ron, he has the definitive answer. If you are building a racecar with other mods and/or a turbo etc, then do the swap. if its a road car and its your first step, forget it.

Andy - DIdn't you have an m50 intake mani on your old e30 m52b28?

Damn, I looked out the window and the world had gone flat again, just when I thought science, fact and logic was here to stay Jo chimes in to disprove it all!!

Where are your references to all these tests you talk about? And wheres the Science behind all of it?

I think it is generally accepted there is low end torque loss, but there is lots of info and positive feedback on e30zone (UK Forum, same spec engines) for doing this swap.

Just curious.

[slybma328i 1]

I done the m50 manifold swap, and from MY experience the low end torque loss isn't that bad. And the gain in the top end IS a good gain. I'm not here to argue with anyone, simply stating my own results. Jumping on the juice pedal at 100km felt waaay better with the m50. I geuss it all comes down to own preference. Btw its dirt cheap to TRY and if you don't like it its not like you can't swap back to the m52 manifold.

1995 328i

M50 manifold

K&N pod filter

Crappy jatco jerky auto still (unfortunatly)

3.46 non lsd diff (unfortunatly)

[No name user 379]

if it works for you and your happy then do it

if i start on the so called "psychics" there will a body count

[No name user 379]

read the posts above not too hard to do

[MoJoJoe 46]

sorry to resurrect this topic from the dead but did alex do this mod or still thinking on it.

What ever happened to the carbon fiber manifold Ron was working on? wonder if its any improvement or best of both worlds?

i was thinking to do the m50 manifold on my 328i with k&n filter 3.64 lsd, jatco auto and cat delete exhaust, i got the kit and everything but still get mixed thoughts, if i put mine to sports mode and floor it, is the difference there after 3000rpm or on the motorway?? is the 10 torques you lose really that noticeable over the power gains? (if any)

edit: did some more reading and seems the m50 thing i not favored as much as there is too much torque loss. alex did it with a kit (he has zf auto) but I am still debating if it would be an improvement for me (jatco auto). otherwise I probably might just sell off my kit + manifold.

Edited April 14, 2014 by MoJoJoe

[thorburn 121]

If you have all the pieces why not slap it on and give it a try.

[MoJoJoe 46]

why bother there is SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO much proof that its a crap mod .

Carbon fibre manifold is percolating away

Hey Ron, since you have personal experience can you be bothered to tell me more, tell me everything, i understand the shape of the manifold itself is a big issue for the torque loss but how much is the loss really? some say 10nm, others say 30 - 40nm, then definitely not worth it then, because that would put it as equal level to an 325i. and when does it kick in? will sports shift over 3500rpm make up for it or is it always 4500 - 5000rpm+? my car has 3.64 lsd so stays at 3500rpm usually, and if the loss is not that bad and power is there when i floor it then i might just do it. I have heard good things from a few people, this from another "local" forum member/friend who shall not be named..

that extra power kick you only feel at around 4700rpm but under that it isn't any slower for me, with a well maintained engine anyway...The power is all the same to me, i dont feel any difference its just like i have an extra vanos that clicks at 4700rpm

Okay well the others obviously don't know what they're talking about as they obviously haven't done it to their car, I have felt next to no torque loss at all, and am feeling an amazing pull that actually no sh*t put you back into your seat from 4750rpm upwards and from then then on its just goooooo!!! I love it and never think I'm going to change it back to my m52 manifold. It just wasn't enough air flow for my car.

Also the more you drive it the more the ecu learns so it seems to just get better

But if your a nana driver and never let your car stretch out the gears fully then i wouldn't bother

would appreciate others chipping in as well. those with the manifold, please leave your feedback/suggestions in regards for future reference aswell..

Edited April 14, 2014 by MoJoJoe

[_ethrty-Andy_ 2132]

Hey Ron, since you have personal experience can you be bothered to tell me more, tell me everything, i understand the shape of the manifold itself is a big issue for the torque loss but how much is the loss really? some say 10nm, others say 30 - 40nm, then definitely not worth it then, because that would put it as equal level to an 325i. and when does it kick in? will sports shift over 3500rpm make up for it or is it always 4500 - 5000rpm+? my car has 3.64 lsd so stays at 3500rpm usually, and if the loss is not that bad and power is there when i floor it then i might just do it. I have heard good things from a few people, this from another "local" forum member/friend who shall not be named..

would appreciate others chipping in as well. those with the manifold, please leave your feedback/suggestions in regards for future reference aswell..

there is a whole thread on the Topic, Ron posted a LOT of information in.

PLEASE SEARCH!!!! either here or Google!

[MoJoJoe 46]

I have read a thread from 2007 and I think 2009 but we didn't come to a conclusion, that was many years ago so thought if things changed a bit after doing the mod it takes time to settle down I dont know I just wanted some more info. Google always tells me mixed things, I come across a forum where all the jokers are saying DO IT DO IT, and then another where they say DONT DONT, then another where they say, "maybe do it, ... yea sure, na, probably dont" this is giving me mixed feelings. this noob wants first hand thoughts from many of you who have done this, not just Ron but others too.

[Eagle 1662]

Dyno it before and after and post results

[MoJoJoe 46]

northland dyno.

i have crayons.

[Gaz 1060]

Can't have searched that hard http://bimmersport.co.nz/topic/44710-e36-323i-intake-swap-results/

Sure it's a 323 but the end result is the same. Its even got pretty pictures which sure even you can understand. Throw it away and get a manual conversion.

/end thread

Edited April 14, 2014 by Gaz

[_ethrty-Andy_ 2132]

The easiest way to understand it: if it was really better for performance, dont you think BMW would have done it? why R and D a new manifold when they "already had one that was better"

[westy 614]

The easiest way to understand it: if it was really better for performance, dont you think BMW would have done it? why R and D a new manifold when they "already had one that was better"

But, if BMW thought the E34 was a betterer car with a V12 in it they would have built one?

[MoJoJoe 46]

The easiest way to understand it: if it was really better for performance, dont you think BMW would have done it? why R and D a new manifold when they "already had one that was better"

I heard it had something to do with the German Insurance, marketing as it would become too competitive with the US M3 and some other reasons that didn't let them make a car that out put more. I am not an engineer but I am sure they could had made a more free flow manifold with similar crescent design therefore keeping the air velocity.

Can't have searched that hard http://bimmersport.co.nz/topic/44710-e36-323i-intake-swap-results/

Sure it's a 323 but the end result is the same. Its even got pretty pictures which sure even you can understand. Throw it away and get a manual conversion.

/end thread

I found the vagina drawing on that thread, that thread is very good, many things to consider but I still would had liked to hear from those who did it to the 328i. I think Westy done it? Is the torque loss on the m52b28 really that noticeable?

gotta love ron

in my opinion my car is now better to drive, how does that make me delusional?

You presented a dyno graph which clearly shows the car produces LESS power right across the rev range

Edited April 14, 2014 by MoJoJoe

[_ethrty-Andy_ 2132]

But, if BMW thought the E34 was a betterer car with a V12 in it they would have built it

better than what would be the question, but I guess you guys are right, marketing does come in to it to a point

[e30ftw 410]

Stricter emissions standards at the time of the m52, else I am sure they could have pulled out a lot more power out of it like the s52 which was also built with a noose around its neck.

[MoJoJoe 46]

could anyone tell me what is A used for? B is already plugged in with an electrical sensor connector which I guess I don't have to use, but I don't have anything in A and its a blank hole, what do I need to plug it with? I believe its a vac line or a sensor? as you can tell, i am doing the swap.

Edited April 15, 2014 by MoJoJoe